Improving the Run Game

"mlb1399 wrote:

My problem with drafting top tier RB’s is the life span of a NFL is just way too short to take the risk. That and we see good RB’s coming out of the 2nd and middle rounds.

As far as drafting OL, I think you always have to have depth there. I’d have no problem using a pick or two in the mid or late rounds.

I have no problem with taking an elite back in the first, but anything below elite I agree with grabbing one later.

"Patster1969 wrote:

Don't think anyone is saying to ignore the RB position and just focus everything on the QB (we've already had bitter experience of how that plays out, as the team never got a running game for #13) but even from that list, not all were 1st & 2nd rounders.
Alf & the team were talking about Jordan Howard on the 5 Reasons post-game show and Alf was saying that he is a player that needs touches, as he has historically got better & more productive the more touches that he got in a game. Who is to say that if one back got the majority of the touches in the game that they won't produce, particularly if we can stretch the game from the QB position?

The thing about Howard is I cant see him getting better as a game goes on. His issue is how slow his feet are to get moving, I'd say if he has in the past gotten better it's either a statistical anomaly or his line was physical in the run game causing tired defensive lineman to be slow off the ball late in games.

"AGuyNamedAlex wrote:

I have no problem with taking an elite back in the first, but anything below elite I agree with grabbing one later.

On the one hand I'd say grab Etienne with the first pick, but on the other I'd be wary of him due to all of the over-usage. Clemson has used him so much that I think he's unfortunately gonna have a short career in the pros.

"M1NDCRlME wrote:

On the one hand I'd say grab Etienne with the first pick, but on the other I'd be wary of him due to all of the over-usage. Clemson has used him so much that I think he's unfortunately gonna have a short career in the pros.

I havent watched enough of him honestly, do you feel like aside from the usage hes as close to a sure thing as it gets or just an above average talent at a watered down position?

I'll still be excited if we can get Sewell but I don't think we'll be picking high enough.
That guy plays well in both run and pass pro. He could help massively. Have to admit I'm a bit of a Sewell fan boy, though.

"TheHighExhaulted wrote:

The last five Super Bowl winning starting running backs were Damien Williams, Legarrette Blount (twice), Sony Michel and C.J. Anderson.

Edit: All undrafted except for Michel.

Another fun fact- two of the recent starting Super Bowl RB's (or within the stable of RB's) were cut/traded from the Dolphins. Three if you count Miller.

I agree with both sides on this conversation. If you have a generational talent sitting there late in the 1st round and it's your biggest need, you draft that RB. There are a few real studs this year coming out but honestly, I don't think they're generational good...Etienne with Clemson is probably the best of the bunch. I would personally take him late 1st/early 2nd but I also agree that you can get a similar talent in the 3rd-5th rounds.

Similar doesn't mean equal, of course, so that 5th rounder probably isn't an awesome blocker with incredible speed, a great pass catcher, amazing vision, etc. like Etienne. But he could have many of those traits and be "good enough" to fill certain needs. With Etienne, you get a true 3-down back that can do it all at high levels. These days that's a luxury though- I can see the "RB by committee" approach as well.

"AGuyNamedAlex wrote:

I havent watched enough of him honestly, do you feel like aside from the usage hes as close to a sure thing as it gets or just an above average talent at a watered down position?

Barring injury I would consider him a can't miss guy. Generational? For me that's a really high bar, and as good as he is I wouldn't call him a generational talent. My only question is can he shed NFL tackles? My gut says his YAC is sustainable in the pros as he's almost a mirror image of Dalvin Cook.
We wouldn't be having this conversation if MIA would have picked Dalvin Cook in 2017 in the late first instead of Charles Harris...I watched him play every game in college and knew he would be special in the NFL and I really wanted him to play in Miami. I think Etienne is just as good as Cook was in his last year of college (I'm a bit biased on this and it pains me to say nice things about Clemson players).

"AGuyNamedAlex wrote:

The thing about Howard is I cant see him getting better as a game goes on. His issue is how slow his feet are to get moving, I'd say if he has in the past gotten better it's either a statistical anomaly or his line was physical in the run game causing tired defensive lineman to be slow off the ball late in games.

That is totally possible, no way to know really

I keep hearing this term “generational talent”, almost always used to describe quarterbacks. When I first heard this term and how it was applied to Andrew Luck. I was a bit skeptical about him but he did have virtually instant success. Granted he was drafted by a team that was built for a true passing quarterback and he fit the missing piece with the absence of Peyton Manning but that’s another discussion.

Now I keep hearing this same term being applied more and more often to more and more players. Mahomes, Murray, Tagovailoa, Burrow, Lawrence all have been tagged with this term. If all of these quarterbacks are that special, then none of them are. With the evolution of quarterbacks, this is now the position.

The same concept applies to running backs. There are generational talents at running back. Czonka, Payton, Dorset, Smith, Sanders, Williams, Gore, Bettis, Peterson, Henry...these were talents that were once in a generation find, that set their teams apart from others in the league. This is what Miami needs, that once in a generation talented running back that gives us an edge other teams don’t have. Does anyone here really truly believe that if we didn’t have that generational talent at running back that we wouldn’t be any better of a team than we currently are?

I’m not saying this upcoming draft doesn’t have that running back but we need to make that concerted effort to find him. We NEED that back that we can hand the ball off to 25 times a game and averages 5 yards a carry. When we find that piece if the puzzle, we’re going to be unstoppable

Anyone changed their mind on this?

"Galant wrote:

Anyone changed their mind on this?

After one game? No, it's still a passing league and we should improve the passing game first. That alone will open up the running game. There's no reason not to pursue better talent at RB, but only after making sure our passing game is feared.

"cbrad wrote:

After one game? No, it's still a passing league and we should improve the passing game first. That alone will open up the running game. There's no reason not to pursue better talent at RB, but only after making sure our passing game is feared.

This is a game where Tua could've used a George Kittle type over the middle. A security blanket.

"cbrad wrote:

After one game? No, it's still a passing league and we should improve the passing game first. That alone will open up the running game. There's no reason not to pursue better talent at RB, but only after making sure our passing game is feared.

Does a lack of a run game hinder the passing game?

"Galant wrote:

Anyone changed their mind on this?

Our OL is still very young and needs to develop. This was a bad game, no question. Definitely need to invest a draft pick on a RB and I wouldn't be opposed to drafting an OL in the mid to late rounds. With injuries in the NFL, you always need help.

I still think our top needs right now assuming those young OL and Tua develops:
1. A WR that stretches the field
2. A MLB
3. DL
4. RB

"Galant wrote:

Does a lack of a run game hinder the passing game?

Sure but lack of better personnel in the passing game hinders it more. Really, anything you do to improve the team will help all other aspects of the team to SOME degree. The question is where to focus limited resources on. I still stand with what I said in post #13: WR that can threaten deep and LB are the two most important potential additions.

"cbrad wrote:

Sure but lack of better personnel in the passing game hinders it more. Really, anything you do to improve the team will help all other aspects of the team to SOME degree. The question is where to focus limited resources on. I still stand with what I said in post #13: WR that can threaten deep and LB are the two most important potential additions.

I agree on the positions, but I think at WR we already have two guys who can threaten deep if the QB throws a catchable ball. I'm more interested in someone with consistent hands who can attack the short to intermediate middle of the field with speed and create separation.

"AGuyNamedAlex wrote:

I agree on the positions, but I think at WR we already have two guys who can threaten deep if the QB throws a catchable ball. I'm more interested in someone with consistent hands who can attack the short to intermediate middle of the field with speed and create separation.

I don't think any of our WR's create fear in defenses. We have good #2 receivers but not someone who everyone worries about covering, and certainly not someone who is a serious deep threat.

I do agree that a great TE or a WR that's really good at short/intermediate routes would help our passing game out a lot too, just not as much as a true #1 WR. I'm hoping we can somehow nag Ja'Marr Chase, if Houston can help us out a bit!

Looks like this upcoming draft is going to be offense focused. I don't see how we go the first three rounds without drafting a back.

"cbrad wrote:

I don't think any of our WR's create fear in defenses. We have good #2 receivers but not someone who everyone worries about covering, and certainly not someone who is a serious deep threat.

I do agree that a great TE or a WR that's really good at short/intermediate routes would help our passing game out a lot too, just not as much as a true #1 WR. I'm hoping we can somehow nag Ja'Marr Chase, if Houston can help us out a bit!

Fair enough. I'm a big fan of Parker though honestly. If you throw the ball in bounds anywhere within his wing span it's a catch almost every time.

"cbrad wrote:

I don't think any of our WR's create fear in defenses. We have good #2 receivers but not someone who everyone worries about covering, and certainly not someone who is a serious deep threat.

I do agree that a great TE or a WR that's really good at short/intermediate routes would help our passing game out a lot too, just not as much as a true #1 WR. I'm hoping we can somehow nag Ja'Marr Chase, if Houston can help us out a bit!

That's sort of the main thing I saw today. Just not enough horses on offense. The offensive line is inexperienced and probably easily confused. The receiving corps (including the tight ends) strikes fear in no one. The run game isn't a threat. How exactly does an inexperienced QB navigate that situation with much effectiveness? The recipe is there for him to be overwhelmed.

I was just looking at PFF's ranking of our OL. We don't need statistical analysis to tell us what our eyes see but I was surprised to see that we didn't have one OL in the top half of their position.

I think we definitely need to add a pick or two in the mid rounds this year(2-4). You have to believe that Kindley, Hunt and Jackson will improve. Especially Jackson who they said was undersized coming into the NFL. If Tua and our offense are gonna have any chance, we have to be able to run the ball. I know part of that comes down to RB talent but I think you could take a RB in the 2nd or 3rd to play with Gaskin.

FWIW, our rankings:
Karras- 17th
Flowers- 43rd, Kindley 72nd
Davis- 64th, Hunt- 72nd, Jackson- 73rd

"Galant wrote:

Does a lack of a run game hinder the passing game?

YES!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus, God, Mary and Joseph, if there has been ANY example this season and last season if the running game is not instrumental to the importance of the passing game, it's the Tennessee Titans! It utterly astounds me how so many can't see the symbiotic relationship between the two!

We've had the debate for the last almost 2 years on Tannehill, whether he is a great/elite quarterback. I'm going to use the argument AGAINST Tannehill to justify the NEED to improve our run game. Thise who are naysayers against Tannehill have argued the only reason Tannehill has put up the stats that he has was due to Derrick Henry. That it's been HIM that's carried the team. That Tannehill has benefited from the supporting cast around him. Ok, take THAT argument as gospel for a moment.

We have a ROOKIE quarterback with 4 starts under his belt, who may be out for even longer if initial reports prove to be true concerning his thumb injury, so lets say for the sake of conversation, Tagovailoa ends up with 6 or 7 starts this season. Next season, he'll still essentially be a rookie. Why in God's name would you NOT want to give a YOUNG quarterback making the transition to the NFL the benefit of a power running game to take pressure off of him? Why in God's name would you NOT want that power running back that has defenses guessing? Are they running? Are they passing? Do we put 7 or 8 in the box to stop the run? Is it a ruse for play action and should we drop back in zone coverage? If we stack the box, are we going to get burned by the pass? If we drop back in pass coverage, are we going to get burned by the run?

I'm not saying we don't need an upgrade at wide receiver. We do and I want Chase more than I do Waddle or Moore. At under 6 feet in height, those two are too short to compete at the NFL level, but if we don't get that power running back to take the pressure off of Tagovailoa, you're gambling your entire offense on ONE player...the quarterback. If you have that running back that can rush for 5 yards a carry and rush the ball 20-25 times per game, you have that one-two punch that's going to make your offense deadly!

So bottom line, the answer again is YES, the lack of a running game hinders the passing game, especially with a rookie quarterback.

I think if Parsons (LB) is there when our first pick comes up we should run to the podium. He immediately improves our defense.

Personally, I hope Pitts (TE) from Florida falls to or 2nd first round pick, because with him and Gesicki DC across the league would have nightmares. Otherwise, you can take either WR/RB, I would probably lean towards Etienne or whomever else they like.

Free agency is key and if we can get Allen Robinson out of Chicago that will fix our WR issues.

Also, I agree with several other posters about grabbing more OL in the middle rounds. Specifically Kinnard from UK, but I'm biased. I also really like Olave from OSU as a good 2nd day pick at WR.