Indy could be in trade talks with Phin's for Vontae Davis

In the tight ends, runningbacks and current receivers.

 

We did before Brandon Marshall was a Dolphin.

 

His best year here was worse than Chambers best year here. Fact.

 

Exactly. and those 6 TD's are a lot considering the collective garbage we've amassed at the WR position. Hartline only has 5 TD's in 3 years, and 3 of those came in his rookie year.

 

yup, with Brandon Marshall his touchdowns went down.

 

As for Vontae, the best we could get for him at this point is a 4th. Maybe a 3rd if a team is really, really desperate, but highly unlikely. A 4th isn't worth it, and I'm not sure if a 3rd is either.

 

Brian Hartline is a #4 at best WR. That's why his TD's went down, and why he will continue to not be very good on a football field.

 

His touchdowns went down because Miami had to feed Brandon Marshall who didn't do the job of creating more touchdowns.

 

Most importantly, who's going to slip on McDonald's bags?

 

What will we ever do with that $5.8 million in salary cap money saved.

 

This is an old argument but, those are the most misleading stats you can throw out there because that production never, ever, ever resulted in an appropriate number of TDs...not in his time here... Not to mention the untimely drops and the cancer he created... Do we have one receiver that can replace the yardage...don't know for sure, but I'll bet we can replace his 5 TDs...

 

You'd think playing with such horrible WRs Marshall would have done even better...you'd think....

 

Chris Chambers best year here was better than Marshall's best year here. That is what I said. That is fact. Marshall did not live up to his hype here, that is also fact.

 

Who cares? The goal isn't to get a receiver stats, its overall efficiency of the offense. The offense wasn't any more efficient with Marshall than it was before Marshall.

 

Our 6-10 record says no.

 

This is a "chicken or the egg" question that nobody is ever going to be able to tease apart IMO.

 

Really? Since when were his numbers not considered good production?

 

It was when we had a good QB throwing him the ball.

 

You can make up whatever nonsense you want but the facts are still facts. Brian Hartline had 56 targets before Marshall. He has 73 targets in 2010 in only 12 games, and 67 targets last year. So no, he wasn't fed the ball any less. Quite the opposite. The result? 2 TD's in 2 years. Why? Because he's not a good player.

 

No. I think whatever ability Marshall brought was negated by how much more predictable the offense with Marshall here, among other things. I think the efficiency numbers support that.

 

ahh yes, a formidable army of undrafted Fas and career underachievers.

 

Our offense was statistically just as efficient before Marshall. Why exactly was that?

I would rather have a team that is without players forcing coaches to move and berating QBs.

 

How about points by offense?
2009 360
2010 273
2011 329

So, by points, then no our offense wasn't better.

How about yards?
2009 337.6
2010 323.1
2011 317.4

So, by yards, then no our offense wasn't better.

So if not by points, not by yards and not by record, how exactly did he make our offense better?

 

I think the biggest factor was that playcalling was as consistently sucky as before. It also didn't help that our OL has been much worse or that our running game went from among the best in the league, to flat out awful in 2010, to average last year. Marshall was able to keep the offense consistently bad, instead of a flat out vomit inducing monstrosity, though 2010 was pretty close to that with the laughable running game and OL, and of course Chad Henne. This season will pretty much conclude this argument because that vomit inducing monstrosity has a very real chance of happening with a rookie QB and our WR's. Or, it remains consistently bad and we can say he had no impact, because I don't see our QB play or running game being better enough to skew the results.

 

Again, the numbers before Marshall don't support the offense being any worse before Marshall than once he arrived. It was bad before and bad after.

 

I never said it was any worse. I said Marshall kept the offense bad, instead of a vomit inducing monstrosity. An offense is never going to improve much when Chad Henne and Matt Moore are throwing the ball, regardless of Marshall or Hartline or Ted Ginn as your #1. We know this.

 

I do think adding a pro bowl receiver makes the team better, if he produces. Marshall didn't.

I mean how can you say it worked when every important qualifier declined?

 

I am kind of with shouright on this one with the 'chicken and egg' thing.

But the first team that comes to mind that contradicts this is the Detroit Lions. Winning? Sure, on the field. Good team culture? I dunno.

 

and you dont realize this is because of the combination of an inept coaching staff, bad to mediocre QB play, combined with this team not having a legiimate #2WR?

 

Really, i thought it was all because of Ireland?

Seriously, I don't care what caused it. He didn't produce what he was worth in cost (money, headaches), and he would have made Philbin's transition hell. He was overrated for us. We were not a better football team with Marshall. I have records, stats and facts as proof...you guys have....what he did in Denver. My evidence is more compelling as it pertains to Miami.

 

He did produce here.