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Ireland has given you OL personnel responsibility

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Lee2000, Sep 10, 2013.

  1. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Here's a question for you. Would you have moved up less than we did and taken Chance or Warmack instead of Jordan?
     
  2. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    3,2,1...
     
  3. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    Chance is Warmack and yes, aside from the 3 can't miss Tackles, Warmack was next on my list. Future Pro-bowler and total beast.
     
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  4. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    I often wonder if they take particular players not only to fill a want, but to keep a division rival from getting them. Anybody ever seen anything on that?
     
  5. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Sorry. Meant Cooper or Warmack. The two top guards.
     
  6. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    Certainly is an interesting question you pose...without any knowledge whatsoever, I would say yes it probably has happened but probably not often.

    It sounds like a move Bellicheat would make. :yes:
     
  7. ATLFINFAN

    ATLFINFAN Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Isn't Donald Thomas the guy that got mad at our QB and let the DLman he was SUPPOSED to block, have a free pass at the QB? If this is the THOMAS some are bringing up, I am GLAD he is gone.
     
  8. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    We picked Jake Long #1 overall. He was an amazing left tackle for awhile. Top 1 or 2 in the league in his prime.

    He's gone now and we accomplished nothing except the first year he was here and little of that had to do with him.

    Basically he wasn't a bust and it made us no better than we were last year. This LT infatuation is overblown.
     
  9. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    This is a ridiculous attempt at logic.

    Steve Young was absymal in Tampa - He went to San Fran and the rest is Superbowl History. What does that mean - I have no idea.
     
  10. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Steve Young was horrible in Tampa. Jake Long was amazing here, and it did nothing for the team. Then he left.

    Point being, we used a high pick on a great LT. He played at a high level. We still weren't a good team. He still left. Maybe, just maybe, LTs aren't actually as important as they used to be.
     
  11. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    I agree, but he he wasn't the only upgrade available at LT, McKinnie and Vollmer were out there, both were relatively cheap, hell I think there are tackles available right now that are better than Martin (Gaither).
     
  12. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    No way. I'd have only considered either of them (Cooper or Warmack) if it didn't involve a trade up. And really, if we were standing pat, I'd have preferred Eifert.
     
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  13. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Part of that is scheme changes and coaching turnover. The fit between the player and the system matters. In Madden you can take a player from one team to another and expect the same production, but that's not the case in real life.
     
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  14. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    What kind of logic is that? Jake Long did play at a very high level when he was healthy, but a LT, or a player at every other position except for maybe QB, isn't going to carry a team make chicken salad out of you know what.

    For the majority of Jake Long's time here we had QB issues, WR issues, DB issues, OL issues, take your pick. He couldn't single handedly make a good team out of that mess, that's just stating the obvious.

    What Andrew Luck did last year was remarkable- a rookie QB spearheaded a turnaround, taking a joke of a team that lost Peyton Manning, from 2-14 to 11-5 his rookie year. I can't think of a LT or a player at any other position than the rare QB who could accomplish that. As to Matt Ryan, if the Dolphins had a conviction that he would have turned out as well as he has, they obviously would have taken him over jake Long because of Ryan's positional value.
     
  15. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    How much has Vollmer played LT? I'm not going to say he wouldn't be better than Martin, I just don't know. I do know we'd never have signed him to such a reasonable deal.

    Don't think I agree that McKinnie or Gaither are better options either.
     
  16. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    Certainly either would have been better options in terms of depth at the least.
     
  17. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    McKinnie would certainly be better depth.
     
  18. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Thee...Ohio State University
    If Jeff Ireland gave me the keys to the car and let ME make the decision????











    I would wait until week 2, and go from there.
     
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  19. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    McKinnie in particular would just be a horrible fit. I wanted us to sign him when we had Sparano here, but now it makes no sense.
     
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  20. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Our guards are our weakest link. Incognito is so overrated by Dolphins' fans it's pathetic. And John Jerry is a backup in most teams.
     
  21. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Big big man.
     
  22. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Incognito made the Pro Bowl last year, must have been doing something right.
     
  23. flounder97

    flounder97 Active Member

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    I say we start looking at genetic engineering. Sure it may take 22-23 years before we have the first wave of perfect offensive linemen playing for the Phins, but it's probably easier than evaluating talent.
     
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  24. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend Club Member

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    the next dimension
    I would have signed Levitre instead of Wheeler.
     
  25. Phoenician Fan

    Phoenician Fan Well-Known Member

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    Well, obviously, almost every criticism of Ireland possible has already been made and I wholeheartedly agree with all of it. Ireland is the WORST! GM in the history of the NFL.

    That said I think Jeff is a nice guy and I wish him well, but somewhere else, and soon.

    Looking ahead, the first thing on my mind would be to keep in mind that every other position on the team affects the OL in a very significant way.

    Solidifying other areas and accomplishing team friendly contracts that will open up some cap room and diminish draft priorities in other areas will be huge.

    The Misi extension was a horrific decision in view of the OL problems. Horrific!! Misi is a good football player and very smart guy, but he is unstable and on three years probation.

    He has struggled with depression his whole adult life. Two-down OLB's aren't that hard to find. It wasn't necessary to spend more money at the LB position going into next year.

    Randy Starks and Richie Incognito: If the season goes well we obviously don't trade them. If we are out of the playoff hunt before the deadline we trade them both. Either way they are both gone next year.

    I wanted to let Starks walk this year and sign Desmond Bryant to a 6 year 45 mil contract.

    I would love to keep Richie a couple more years but Ireland's stupidity means there won't be cap room to spend 4-5 mil on an aging OG.

    Might as well blow the thing up. Kaboom!!!

    I seriously doubt Jonathan Martin or John Jerry will ever amount to much. I would trade John Jerry yesterday if possible. Again, if the Dolphins aren't in the playoffs later on, trade him for a late round pick if there is a team desperate enough. Martin I would hold on to until the 2014 draft and try to maximize his value in a draft day trade, unless something unexpected happened.

    The 49ers are going to have to make a decision on OT Luke Marquardt soon. Barring other injuries to their current OT's they will probably release him and try to stash him on the PS. Sign him!! If they don't release him, make a trade offer.

    Cut Nate Garner and sign Reid Fragel to the 53 man roster. Future RT. Cut RJ Stanford and sign Winston Justice to a 2 year contract. IMO, Justice is an excellent candidate to be a swing tackle in the NFL. He isn't tough and he can't finish a season. He was over drafted because of his freakish athleticism and over paid, but when healthy he may be the best pass blocking OT in the NFL. Thing is, he won't cost anywhere near what he used to. He could be a steal as a bench player.

    I would trade our 2014 1st round pick today to the Raiders for LT Jared Veldheer. The only way they would even give a trade a 2nd thought would be based on three factors.

    1.) How great they think Veldheer will really be for the next 5-6 years.

    2.) Do they anticipate problems signing Houston and/or McFadden. A franchise tag decision may be looming.

    3.) And of course the unlikely possibility that Menelik Watson gets healthy and plays well. If that happens Barnes would move to OG and RT Tony Pashos lead the preseason with the highest grade for an OT and he was their best OL in week 1.

    Highly unlikely they would give him up but I would give them Jerry,Martin and our 1st in heartbeat. Obviously I believe Veldheer will be a future perennial Pro-Bowler, and would anchor a vastly improved OL in 2014.

    Draft C Travis Swanson with a trade up in the 2nd round, and move Pouncey to LG; add a 2nd round pick. Obviously I believe Swanson will be an even better C than Pouncey and I believe Pouncey will be a top 10 OG; something the Dolphins haven't had since..........when?
    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...ret-bielema-raves-about-center-travis-swanson

    It is doubtful Eugene Monroe, Jon Asamoah or Brandon Albert make it to free agency but if they do, you have to create the cap room and go after one of them with a vengeance. Even if Marquardt is acquired he wouldn't be ready for a year or two. Asamoah may walk, they have depth. Asamoah is only 25 and is the quintessential zone blocking OG.

    Dolphins would also have to sign stop-gap OT Anthony Collins to play LT for a year or two until Marquardt or another youngster is ready. It appears that Collins has finally grownup. He has always been a decent player but had a lot of red flags early on.

    Hopefully I'm wrong but I don't see the Dolphins being successful this year with a weak running game and Tannehill being hurried often.

    I base my draft with the Dolphins picking 9th. I traded Starks and Incognito for mid round picks. Wild guess number 1: Eagles are a surprise contender but they need help at DT. Starks would be very valuable to their 3-4 in that he can play the nose or 5-technique well. 3rd round pick?? Wild guess number 2: Incognito to a playoff team who gets hit with injury bug. Saints for a 4th.I trade down in the 1st round garnering a 2nd. I trade up in the 2nd and 3rd round spending Jonathan Martin,Rishard Matthews and picks. I think Matthews will garner good value if he gets enough snaps this year. With three fresh big contracts ahead of him on the depth chart he is expendable at the right price.

    Our trade partner could again be the Raiders. They are going to have only 21 players under contract in 2014. Yikes! They will need multiple draft picks to compete with the mediocre vets they sign.

    Draft:
    1st..............RB Lache SeaStrunk
    2nd.............C Travis Swanson
    2nd.............DT Daniel McCullers....Looks right now like perhaps niether Soliai or Starks may return.
    3rd..............DT/DE Ben Gardner
    4th.............SS Ty Zimmerman
    5th.............OG/OT Austen Wentworth
    6th.............WR L'Damian Washington
    7th..............WR Jeff Janis

    OL:
    LT.........Anthony Collins/Luke Marquardt/Winston Justice
    LG.........Mike Pouncey/Dallas Thomas
    C..........Travis Swanson/Mike Pouncey
    RG.........Jon Asamoah/Austen Wentworth
    RT.........Eric Fragel/Winston Justice

    At least this group would be young with potential instead of just bad.

    Hopefully the Dolphins win the division and blow this scenario to bits. Don't hold your breath.
     
  26. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    It's easy to sit back and say what I would have done with the benefit of hindsight. My biggest concern about his drafting has been the lack of success at OL drafting outside of Pouncey.

    Where it becomes difficult is whose fault was it when parcells was here?

    In hindsight, QB or Clady would have been better picks than Long. Long was dominant for 4 years but has been plagued with injuries and his decline has been noticed. When I look back at a number 1 pick, he should be the building block of your team for the next decade. He wasn't good enough for Ireland to pony up the cash and resign. In my mind, that was a fail. Shawn Murphy was a bust. Donald Thomas went elsewhere and had success. Jerry has been disappointing due to the fact that he has shown poor work ethic in the offseason. It's too early to write off Martin. At the very least, he should be able to be a decent RT at some point in his career, maybe. It will be interesting to see what happens with Dallas Thomas. If Martin and Thomas can develop into solid starters, then i think Ireland saves face.

    When you look at the body of work, 8 OL drafted, 5 of which have been drafted in the top 3 rounds. That should be a strength of this team, especially considering how many FA we've signed.
     
  27. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend Club Member

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    the next dimension
    I would commit to a ZBS system and get rid of the players who don't fit.
     
  28. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    WADR, this is just borderline short bus. He's not even the worse GM the Dolphins ever had.

    Your emotional rhetoric has clouded your judgement.
     
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  29. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I don't know why it would be doubtful that Eugene Monroe or Branden Albert make it to free agency. I doubt the Chiefs and Jags picked Eric Fisher and Luke Joeckel #1 and #2 overall so they can be career right tackles.

    Both those players will switch teams in 2014 and that presents an opportunity for the Dolphins. I like Eugene Monroe a lot but honestly I'll take either player.

    One guy I would love to look at in the draft that I've talked about plenty over the last couple of months is Tennessee right tackle Ja'Wuan James.
     
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  30. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Hey now, let's not criticize the guy who would be a better GM than Ireland despite trading a 2014 1st round pick for a player who is currently on (designated to return) IR and may not even play again this season. And of course that's assuming recovery from a torn triceps has no negative affect on him going forward. But it's ok, if we want to get something for that 2014 pick (outside of potentially playing games this year) we'll be able to franchise him and/or pay him a huge contract with potentially no proof of him playing well for us. Additionally, with this guy as GM we're getting multiple mid-round picks for impending FA's who will only help their respective teams for half a year. What a coup! I'm sure there are no flaws at all in the terrible trades that may only be possible in Madden. How can we lose? Let's get this guy hired right now! :rolleyes:
     
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  31. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Not to mention he'd draft a Center in the 2nd to move the best center in the league to guard.
     
  32. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    I have to concur - A lot of his solutions rely on pipe dreams for trades, but one does have to appreciate his wishful thinking.

    But Please...Don't trade away our 1st rounder in what will be one of the deepest drafts in NFL history in 2015. :no:
     
  33. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    Yah - I'm not seeing this. He just tried to fix the one position that definately doesn't need fixed. :no:
     
  34. Phoenician Fan

    Phoenician Fan Well-Known Member

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    That statement was meant to be humorous. Again, I apologize for writing things that are a little too much for you.
     
  35. Phoenician Fan

    Phoenician Fan Well-Known Member

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    Well if there are some OG prospects in the draft that you like, name them; as for me, I love the Swanson kid as a future star at center and I'm not enthused right now about the other major OG prospects.

    I think Pouncey would be a great LG, so this move along with acquiring Jon Asamoah gives you an awesome interior OL very well suited to a zone scheme.
     
  36. Phoenician Fan

    Phoenician Fan Well-Known Member

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    Really? You wouldn't trade our 1st round pick for Jared Veldheer if they would for some crazy reason let him go.
     
  37. Phoenician Fan

    Phoenician Fan Well-Known Member

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    Why would the Jaguars let Monroe go next year? They have lots of cap and no dead money to contend with. I seriously doubt they let him walk; at least not until 2015 anyway.
     
  38. Phoenician Fan

    Phoenician Fan Well-Known Member

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    If you look at the actual depth chart that I posted you will see that I didn't really rely on any trades, except perhaps Luke Marquardt, but the 49ers have Mario Manningham,Crabtree and a couple other guys that they have to find roster room for in the future. When Marquardt comes off the PUP he will probably be released unless they have injuries at the OT position.
     
  39. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The only option for keeping him realistically is a long term deal. They franchised him once already and to do so again would cost them big money. This isn't about how much cap room they have, this is about allocation of a long term contract to a guy that ensures that your #2 overall pick is just a right tackle for the past (2013), the present (2014) and since it's a long term deal, the future (2015 through 2017).

    I don't see that happening.
     
  40. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Oh yeah, my bad. You've been saying the same thing since you joined cause you're just kidding. How could I be so blind?
     

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