I'd gladly pay a few extra dollars for the paper that could get the interview where Parcells, Sparano and Ireland talked about the things that WEREN'T yet "perfect" with our roster or team.

 

More GM-speak (coach-speak but from the GM). If Atogwe accepted whatever they've offered and joined the Fins, Ireland would then be saying " Yes, we wanted to upgrade the FS position and now we have. That doesn't mean we are unhappy with Clemons or Culver, but OJ represents an upgrade to the overall talent on the team..."

And if the Atogwe signing happens, I'd be willing to bet your paycheck that my above quote would be pretty spot on to what Ireland would actually say to the media...


NOTE: Not my paycheck over yours, just your paycheck...LOL

 

my prediction @ the initiation of reconstruction still holds:
We will Contend in 2010!:party:

 

I'm still a bit concerned about the passrush and hope they have some players on the radar if Merling/Anderson/Walden/McCoy don't shine with passrushing heat in Training Camp.

To me, I'd have Ogunleye, Ellis and Thomas on the radar just in case, especially OGun he has had 1,800 snaps the last two seasons, in part time nickel duty I'd have to think his efficiency would improve.

 

The FO has said from the beginning that they are always looking to upgrade at any position. I'm sure they are "satisfied" with what they have but are more than willing to add someone they feel is an upgrade. :wink2:

 

Much more palatable then Stephen's statement (oh alliteration, why can't I quit you!).

 

I think they are really banking on Chris Clemons getting quicker mentally because if he can get the game to slow down for him, they are going to have a lot of freedom in the front seven.

Every time I watch Nolan's defense, break it down like I did in that other thread and which I will do again in the next couple days, I see a version of the Eagle defense. I wrote in the draft forum a couple days after the draft that I'd like to see the Double Eagle here in Miami and we just may see it unless I am way off base with this, which wouldn't surprise me at all. The players that they've drafted and acquired really match up with the responsibilities of the defenders in that scheme. The free safety has to be to handle the 1/3rd responsibility because they are going to be doing it a lot.

The inside linebacker will be Dobbins/Crowder, which they will be asked to take on guards and do the dirty work, as some call it. The Eagle linebacker is the roaming linebacker that is protected by the nose and end and he's asked to track the ball and simply make plays on the ball, which Dansby does really well IMO.

Then you've got the SAM linebacker, which is asked to cover curl-flat responsibility and I think Misi does that for us this year. Haggan did it in Denver last year. Wake is the rush end, the weak side pass rusher that can be in either a two or three point stance, which I saw from Dumervil last season. The interesting thing here is that Wake was the SAM linebacker at Penn State, according to Ron Vanderlinden. That's very interesting to me because even though it was a pure zone scheme (and still is) at Penn State, Wake was asked to cover short zones. He does not have the hip roll of a guy like Koa Misi IMO but he was still asked to play SAM at Penn State. I'd be surprised if they had him do that here.

Moving forward, the nose guard is a quick, disruptive pass rusher that plays with good leverage and has to be able to fit into a blocker and prevent him from getting to the second level. I don't know about anyone else but that sounds about right with Randy Starks. There's also the defensive tackle in this scheme, which is basically a stump type of player which reminds me of Jared Odrick.

A lot of similarities in the Eagle scheme ran by Vanderlinden at PSU and what I saw from Nolan. Just my two cents though.

 

Alen, let me ask you about Odrick:

-Do you really see him as an anchor player?

-Do you see him as being more effective at DE or DT/passrusher?

And Nolan's scheme:

-Does his Dline run stunts and slants etc?

 

I think he can do it. I think his hand use and strength gives him the ability to do it. I don't think he's going to be your typical nose that sits on the line and eats blocks, though. I think he's the type that will give you some flexibility up front because he can make plays on his feet and I think he's a guy who will penetrate into the backfield. I think CK nailed it when he said Odrick was a "stump". That was a while back when we were writing about him in the Draft forum but I think he's right there. I think he's a guy who is going to be a tough match up because he has adequate quickness, a strong motor and very good hand use. I also want to give credit to Disgustipate, who is a genius IMO, when he brought up Kendall Langford as a possible nose. Langford is that "stump" type of player IMO. I think he and Odrick are similar, except that Odrick provides more pass rush.

I wouldn't stick him in one specific role, honestly. I don't think you want to take a guy like Odrick and say he's playing end and only end. Honestly, I like him at nose.

From what I've seen, yes. Not a significant amount but I have seen X stunts and twists. I've caught it from the strong side end and the nose the most from what I recall.

 

I also wanted to expand on the Cam Wake at SAM comment. I wouldn't read too much into it because it provides little information and I do know that he split duties with another player at that SAM spot. Comparing Wake's situation at PSU and Nolan's defense last year, Wake could have been the Robert Ayers role player whilst the other guy was the Mario Haggan.

 

hey Alen1, you said:
The inside linebacker will be Dobbins/Crowder, which they will be asked to take on guards and do the dirty work, as some call it. The Eagle linebacker is the roaming linebacker that is protected by the nose and end and he's asked to track the ball and simply make plays on the ball, which Dansby does really well IMO.

Why wouldn't a team just use a 4-3 defense if they're just going to ask one of the ILBers to take on guards?

 

This is what scares me. If I watch games and focus on Crowder, I don't see him as a physical player. He avoids any contact from what I see. I wouldn't trust him in this role.

 

From what I've seen from Nolan, it's basically a 4-3 with a 3-4 pre-snap read. It changes if he's blitzing, obviously, but with Mario Haggan in coverage so much on the strong side, he's basically got a four man pass rush. Watching Nolan's defense last year and watching Saban's defenses, I think there are a lot of similarities. Saban, like Nolan, always has at least four rushing.

 

Saban/Muschamp was a bit before I really followed the Dolphins again Alen, did you happen to recall whether or not they blitzed the Safety often?

And OmarK apparently thinks Nolan is doing the same things DC P was, I tend to disagree with that one, but then again, Omark is there.

He doesn't see where the passrushing is coming from, to me, with our dline a four man front can do it via man on man or running stunts and slants.

What say you

 

I didn't watch it in that much detail when Saban was here to be honest but I have seen Saban's playbook at LSU and his scheme is the same everywhere he goes. Only thing different is the terminology. It's incredibly similar. I've been working on getting the 2006 Saban defensive playbook when he was here at Miami but I haven't been contacted back. If I do come up with it, I'll let you know.

I'm sure there are similarities. Nolan's scheme has so many different things to it that he's bound to have some similarities. You can only cover so many ways.

I think we can do it with a four man rush, sure. I think a rush of Wake, Starks, Odrick and say Langford can be quality. Wake would be the stand up five technique but its a four man rush either way.

 

don't get too cozy Jeff, keep turning over rocks, churn the bottom of the roster and find us a FS!

 

Hopefully, that FS is already on the roster. Clemons has the physical skill, lets just hope he's caught up mentally.

 

its already slowed down for chris clemons. he knows his assignments now. he'll be fine back there this year.

 

Yeah that's what some of the reports are saying. I'm just waiting to see it in games instead of practices.

 

Well, nice logic but according to this article: Steve Ross prediction

Dansby says:

 

He could be the inside linebacker and have someone like Edds as the Eagle linebacker on downs. Similar to what Denver did with Woodyard and Williams. He doesn't have to be the inside linebacker or the Eagle linebacker all three downs.

Again, I could be wrong though.

 

alen, your logic and evaluation seem right on ...

with Dobbins\Crowder, it only brings a clearer focus as to the 'why' when you bring out the responsibilities Crowder would be asked to do -- which as we know, are not his strongpoints.

Edds will find some playing time ... would have even more if he were stronger at the POA or could shed blocks better.

Still very optimistic WRT Clemons ... i gave him a pass last year - but am looking for that next step this year ... and at least there is some indication that he has made progress; just how much guess we'll see in about an month.

never really thought of Langford as a 'stump' ... too bad Merling couldn't be that guy, Odrick is a clear improvement over both ... but i still see Langford as a 'rush' need at LDE. Personally, i thought that Odrick and Starks were very similar -- one reason why i thought Odrick was a very likely choice in late round 1, since most believed that we would rotate Starks to NT - and would need a replacement RDE ...

 

Alen,

How does your double eagle compare to Nolan's defense with the Ravens? Denver could be a misleading as he may have had to exposed his best unit (DBs) and use interchangeable LBs to protect a weak DL. I am not sure if you've seen it, but I posted a link to a 50 page presentation of Nolan's Ravens defense that may be useful for one that understands X & Os.

The presentation is mostly over my head so I try to read the tea leaves from player and coach interviews. My assumption is that defense will use pre-snap Dansby and DL movement to disguise the defense with an objective to disrupt and penetrate the OL. The base 3-4 OLBers would look more like 4-3 OLBs as their primary responsibilities are containment, coverage, and cutback. During run plays, the Phins will look like an attacking defense as a Crowder hits the gap created by Dansby while Bell and backside LB attack the bounce out and cutback lane. Pass plays may seem more passive with OLB consistently dropping back into coverage with goals to a lower completion % of short passes and create turnovers by narrowing the passing holes.

Parcell's preaches situational football, which could benefit Edds if he's able to play the TE in the red zone. This could free up Bell to get a chance to read the play, which he's not afforded when he's trying to play tight coverage on a curl. I wonder if Edds playing time may be in a more straight-up 4-3 than a 3-4. This may suite the DL, which has the depth to play either speed or heavy; Dobbins, may be the most adapt LB to hunt down a ball carrier with his sideline-to-sideline speed; and Dansby, whom can continue to be a wildcard by either blitzing, dropping into coverage, or taking a blitzing DBs man. Such a situational scheme would also allow the team to mix it up against better offensive teams, such as Indy and NE, where their spread RBs and TEs have had their way with our previous LBs.

 

Yeah I've seen that presentation before. Actually have it saved to my computer for a while now. The Denver defense and the one in the powerpoint had some similarities. I went through the power point again and captured the images that showed similarity between Denver and Baltimore defense.

Focus on the KNIFE stunt here.


​

I think your assumption is correct here. I think there will be pre-snap movement and a lot of coverage shells. They'll come out with a two deep set often and either safety (Nolan doesn't limit the SS only to the box, he has used both) will walk up to the line as the snap count is yelled out. There will be a lot of various techniques and as you see in the diagrams, he doesn't hesitate to use combo coverages, which is common in a five DB set.

Only the strong side linebacker and that's only in specific times. The strong side OLB will be often in coverage, as we saw with Mario Haggan last year. When it is time to go downhill, Nolan dialed up Robert Ayers number most of the time last year and counted on him to get after the quarterback from what I saw. I think he and Dumervil were separated by a single snap when it came to dropping in space, something like 75/74. Truth is, when it all comes down to coverages, there isn't a big difference of cover responsibilities whether it be a 4-3 or a 3-4. That's from what I've learned and seen. I don't see much difference in coverage responsibilities in either scheme.

I think you're right on here.

I have seen the curl responsibility mostly to the inside linebacker and sometimes the strong side outside linebacker, depending on if the ILB is blitzing or not. What I've usually seen is when the strong safety is asked to play the box, he usually has flat responsibility.

I wouldn't read so much into the 3-4 / 4-3 looks. The reason is because Nolan gives off a lot of base 3-4 and its essentially a 4-3 at the snap because he often has only four pass rushers once the SOLB (Haggan) drops into coverage. Additionally, as I stated earlier, the responsibilities in coverage are not very different, regardless of the front seven, from what I have learned. Edds could line up on the strong side in the 3-4 and cover the tight end. I think Edds biggest issue is going downhill. He is not very impressive going downhill due to the fact that he has spent little time taking on blocks and stack/shedding them. A problem that I think we could run into is the same one that Nolan's defense ran into last year, which is why it kind of wore off. What teams did is put out a bunch formation, for example, spread out and get all the role players in, the ones with cover duties to be specific, and then they ran it with a single back. When I watched Pittsburgh, what they did was line up in a tight bunch with a singleback and then run hard at the strong side, which was Mario Haggan. IMO, Haggan is not all that great going downhill and he doesn't defeat blocks all too well. They put the bunch formation on Haggan's side and then just pounded the ball. It was also an issue at inside linebacker because the nickel linebacker, Wesley Woodyard, is poor at defeating blocks too IMO so he struggled as well.

Last year, I saw Nolan take out a pass rusher (sometimes it was Dumervil; when I broke it play by play against Pittsburgh, it was Dumervil just about every time) and replace him with an extra defensive back when faced with multiple receivers. The bunch formation gave Nolan's defense quite a bit of trouble from what I recall and what really was an issue was a speed receiver that could get down the field. I don't think the DB's did a good job of 'carrying' the receiver last year.

 

Here's basically what I'm talking about. Monte Kiffin ran the Double Eagle against UF's spread last season. What you see in that image is every offensive lineman covered, which I touched on in the thread I did on Nolan's defense against Pittsburgh. He used that a few times. What is not pictured but is there if you do a Tackle box count and count the DB's is that there is a single high safety.

 

Thanks Alan,

I think I starting to get it. A formation with Dansby playing opposite of Wake would allow him to be position in between our rivals' tendencies, such as half of Welker's routes and Sanchez's preference to throw right. And it puts best 11 on the field with the ILB spots manned by a safety (Bell) and a LB that matches up opponent other strengths, such as running threat.

As for the slides from the Raven's presentation, I was intrigued by the ones where the TED (Dansby) attacked the line or lined up outside of SAM. Nolan's been great at developing LBs that burst out of anonymity (Jessie Armstead, Adalius Thomas, and now Elvis Dumervil, but it takes a few years to to become a full-time player . My assumption is team will lean on Dansby to be an opportunistic player; resulting in a higher ratio of run/pass blitz than the Broncos inside blitzer.

Developing Misi may also impact Wake's ability to get on field as the opposite OLB. Opponents are likely motion the TE to change each player's responsibilities. Instead, I am guessing that the staff goes with a known quantity that is less likely to make mistakes, such as Charlie Anderson. This scenario leaves Dansby as a more likely candidate to continue to blitz until Wake comes in as the 4th rusher.