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Ireland pleased with the depth of the team .

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by CrunchTime, May 2, 2013.

  1. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    Thats one of the reasons why I didnt think we would end up with 11 players for 11 draft picks.We already have a lot of players who have the potential to challenge for starting positions .We are past the stage of needing bodies .Those draft picks were used to move up to get better quality players.
     
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  2. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Exactly, this is why the Star/Jordan debate seems so odd to me, Dion Jordan's don't come along every draft, that is a rare player and love the fact Ireland addressed what 'pundits' had to say.

    Lane Johnson may be a fine player, ditto Star L, but neither can do what Jordan showed he can do at Oregon.

    Added the Jelani Jenkins quote b/c I feel he's the steal of our draft, he's road blocked atm by Ellerbe and Wheeler, but if either goes down with an injury he would be a natural replacement, once again those movement skills are what modern NFL defenses are all about.
     
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  3. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    Not to mention that Wheeler is the only one whose shown some coverage ability in the past. If Jenkins is as good as they say in coverage he might get in there on some coverages.
     
  4. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, to me the theme of this draft is flexibility, Jenkins, Jordan, Davis, Thomas, Sims, can all do multiple things

    I happened to hear that interview yesterday and Ireland said "..you can't be a one hole player unless you are a starter..".

    Other thing is, Ellerbe has not been able to stay healthy so depth will be important this year, it may be the only thing that keeps Koa Misi on the roster tbh.
     
  5. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    I can cut enough players from this roster that we wouldn't be able to dress 45 guys on game day. Ireland can't get the roster down to 53 in his mind? He's still clinging to too many rotten acorns.

    The rhetorical convenience of horizontal drafting.
     
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  6. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Again padre, its not a Star vs. Jordan argument, its a Jordan vs. Star plus the 42 pick argument and how that might have effected the rest of our draft. I'm saying that as a Jordan fan.
     
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  7. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Thing is, Jordan's skillset vs a gamble on a #42 pick panning out?

    For me, the draft is such a gamble to begin with I'd not risk landing the player I felt I had to have to play "draft lotto"?
     
  8. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    Even with that argument. I'm on the side of taking the gamble on the elite pass rusher over the elite tackle + 2nd round pick. Having two elite pass rushers + Starks and Odrick on passing downs clearly (IMO) outweighs one elite pass rusher + 3 DTs (or two if we likely let Soliai go after the season had we picked Star) when it comes to neutralizing elite QBs.
     
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  9. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    I'd expect him to say nothing less. I cant wait for the minicamp reports to see how things start shaking out.
     
  10. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    They are pretty deep at some positions. Linebacker, cornerback, and guard most notably.
     
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  11. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Basically it would make far more sense to replace Misi with Jordan then Soliai with Star L+ #42

    As for the #42, the way I see it most teams draft boards are similar, as in there are few surprises when giving draft grades, so look 5 before #42 and 5 behind it:

    #35 Zach Ertz
    #36 Darius Slay
    #38 Te'o
    #39 Geno Smith
    #40 Tank C
    #41 Robert Woods
    #42 Menelik Watson
    #43 Jonathon Banks
    #44 Kawann Short
    #45 Kevin Minter

    Of those players, Banks would make sense, Watson as well, otherwise no one I would pass on Jordan so I could acquire them.
     
  12. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    First of all, DT is a need for this team. Both our starters could be gone next year and Star projects to be better than either.
    Secondly, had we stayed at 12 and grabbed Star, maybe we grab Watson at 42. Or we grab Banks and go a different player at 54 than Taylor or Davis at 93. Or grab Alonso and go different than Jenkins in the 104.

    I want to stress though, Jordan is a monster and I'm confident he'll be a great player.
     
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  13. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Heres the problem with saying grabbed star at 12 and then Banks or Watson at 42. You have no clue either would of been there at 42. In the scenario where we had 42nd pick and didn't trade it, I can guarantee that TB would of traded above us to secure Banks. They had a hard on for him. Whose to say some team would not have done the same with Watson and then we are sitting there at 42 without those 2 players.

    You can never look back on a draft and project what we could of had. Because he would of been totally different.
     
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  14. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    I am actually very interested in who you would cut to get to 45...
     
  15. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I'm not saying we would have done those things though.

    I'm merely pointing out that Star vs. Jordan isn't necessarily the right way to frame the discussion, because our draft could have been significantly different had we stayed put.

    Also, FTR, for the same reasons you give about the follies of guessing what might have happened, its equally incorrect for you to guarantee TB would have traded up for Banks.
     
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  16. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    TB was talking about taking Banks in the first if Millner was gone before they traded for Revis. So what I should of said was I guarantee they would of at least tried very hard to trade in front of us for Banks. But your point is exactly my point. Had we not traded up for Jordan, we have no clue how the rest of the draft would of went.

    I understand what your saying and I see both sides. I was big proponent of Star at 12. Or Jones. I would of went nuts had we been at 12 and both were on the board.
     
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  17. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I'm really torn on this. I love Jordan the player, but I'm not sold on Jordan the pick. Dunno if that makes sense to anyone but me.
     
  18. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    You think he is not worth the 3rd overall value? Or you just don't think Jordan is going to have a big enough impact to warrant giving up another top 50 pick? I am still torn about this as well. But the more I look at it, the more I think that Dion's impact will be so much larger as far as plays made. If we can resign one of those 2 inside tackles, we will be OK inside. We aren't going to be able to find an impact guy like Dion. That is obviously projecting his talents to be fulfilled as well though. Lets hope he lives up to the potential. If he does, I don't see anyone looking back on this draft and questioning that trade up. Unless Jones, Banks or Watson turns out to be stars in the league. Which is possible.
     
  19. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Just because I'm bored...

    Clay, Charles
    Clemons, Chris
    Davis, Will
    Denney, John
    Devlin, Pat
    Ellerbe, Dannell
    Fields, Brandon
    Garner, Nate
    Gibson, Brandon
    Gillislee, Mike
    Grimes, Brent
    Hartline, Brian
    Incognito, Richie
    Jenkins, Jelani
    Jerry, John
    Jones, Don
    Jones, Reshad
    Jordan, Dion
    Kaddu, Josh
    Keller, Dustin
    Lane, Jorvorskie
    Louis, Lance
    Marshall, Richard
    Martin, Jonathan
    Martin, Vaughn
    Matthews, Rishard
    Miller, Lamar
    Misi, Koa
    Moore, Matt
    Odrick, Jared
    Pouncey, Mike
    Randall, Kheeston
    Samuda, Josh
    Shelby, Derrick
    Sims, Dion
    Soliai, Paul
    Spitler, Austin
    Stanford, R.J.
    Starks, Randy
    Sturgis, Caleb
    Tannehill, Ryan
    Taylor, Jamar
    Thigpen, Marcus
    Thomas, Dallas
    Thomas, Daniel
    Trusnik, Jason
    Vernon, Olivier
    Wake, Cameron
    Wallace, Mike
    Wheeler, Philip
    Wilson, Jimmy
    Yeatman, Will

    Thats 52 right there..I find it hard to believe you have more then 7 guys you would cut from that roster...I could see a few. But more then 7? No chance.
     
  20. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Its not that i don't think he was worth the #3. He was. Hell, he was worth #1. I just don't know that the he will have a bigger impact on the team than who we could have got at 12 and 42 combined.
     
  21. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    yes, i definitely see what you're saying, but while both DTs could potentially be gone, it would be very easy to keep one of them and play Star, which would give us a great DT lineup with Star and Starks (my preference over Soliai). For me personally, I cannot separate draft from FA, they are tied together. Just looking at the two scenarios in my head for the start of 2014 season: even though Watson could be a pro-bowler at RT, I still take scenario A of the two kick-*** scenarios. WHen you have the two scenarios that both look pretty damn good, you take the one with the elite pass rush.

    (A)
    pass rush of Wake + Jordan
    DTs of Starks + Soliai
    RT = (hopefully) Eric Winston

    (B) pass rush of Wake + Vernon/Misi
    DTs of Star + Starks
    RT = Watson
     
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  22. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    All fair. Like I said, I'm torn.
     
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  23. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    Yeah, it's scary. for once we potentially have a good problem/tough decision to make. This team, at least on paper, has come a long way the last few years.
     
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  24. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think star is great for what he does, but I think Sheldon Richardson will be the better more versatile pro between the two, and I would take Jordan over both.
     
  25. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Exempting rookies:

    Every WR except Wallace and Hartline.
    Every RB except Miller, Thigpen, and maybe Jonas Gray.
    All backup OL and at least one starter (Jerry).
    All non-starting CBs and one of either Marshall or Patterson; probably Patterson.
    Misi. Carpenter. Denney. Clemons! Clay.
    All third stringers like Kyle Miller, Jason Trusnick, Chas Alecxih, etc.
    And Egnew would have until halftime of the first preseason game to prove that he shouldn't be bagging my groceries at Publix.

    If you define depth as "lots of players at a given position", then yes, we're deep, but so is every other team in the NFL right now. But if you define depth as "lots of quality players at a given position", then suddenly this team is in the kiddy pool as far as I'm concerned.
     
  26. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    um......

    not sure if your serious....

    If you are, thank god you have no say in anything. Clearly you have no clue what depth is.
     
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  27. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Quarterback, and it soon to be Tackle, too.

    I agree with Ireland. Good depth on this team.
     
  28. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It seems you just named anyone to get it to 45. No way in hell you release all those players.
     
  29. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    I know what depth is. The difference is that I place a quality modifier on the term. Throwing warm bodies at a position doesn't actually improve it. There needs to be some sort of talent there.

    Example: I'd get rid of Misi because I find him inadequate as a starter, but if he were a backup, I'd probably keep him. I would then consider him depth, meaning a quality non-starter. However, I would not consider, say, Gary Guyton depth, because Guyton is awful no matter what slot on the chart he occupies. Likewise, Cameron Worrell was once considered a good depth player.

    When I say depth, I mean the presence of acceptable NFL level talent behind a superior player. When you say depth, you must mean something else.

    Yep, I just named anyone. That's why I threw out Matt Moore, Mike Pouncey, Jonathan Martin, Ryan Tannehill, Dustin Keller, Richie Incognito, Dannell Ellerbe, etc. I just picked names out of a hat. You caught me red-handed.
     
  30. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    At least you admit it. I'm proud of you.
     
  31. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    Given proof that Ireland hatred can force the mind into crazy talk.
     
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  32. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    So you would cut our pro bowl long snapper, Brandon Gibson(solid 3rd option), Richard Matthews(nice potential), Will Yeatman(potential and depth), Lance Louis(huh? the bears best O-lineman before he was hurt last year. Young kid), John Jerry(If he were to show up at 400 pounds I could understand), Josh Samuda(young kid with potential), Misi(despite just saying he is good depth), Clemons(despite us not having a replacement, and even if we did, depth?), Clay(Clay is the definition of depth!!!!!!!!! But yet you would keep Egnew despite Clay actually flashing on an NFL football field during games?)



    I just don't understand your thinking one bit. Your far smarter then what you've posted in this thread, I know that. Who do you sign to replace those guys then? Or are we just running into next season with a 40 man roster.
     
  33. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    My secret plan is to cut payroll entirely to $0.00 and move the team to LA.

    Due ~$1.1 million, and his replacement is already on the roster. Seeya.

    Ted Ginn redux.

    Don't know who Richard Matthews is. Rishard Matthews, however, has shown nothing that cannot be easily replaced.

    Yep.

    Have him penciled in as the starting RG, thus why I got rid of Jerry.

    Waste of space for four years.

    Yep.

    Yep. I have no room for a starter who is only good against the run. If I need to start a one-dimensional player, that one dimension had better be good pass defense. Thus why I'm happy with the drafting of Jenkins.

    Marshall is his replacement. I've wanted Clemons gone for two years.

    Clay offers nothing irreplaceable, and Dion Sims will probably overtake Clay anyway.
     
  34. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Then you have an over inflated concept of other teams' depth. Is that because of years of frustration getting the better of you, I don't know.
     
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  35. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The Ted Ginn comparison again. Ha.
     
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  36. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Brandon Gibson is being compared to Tedd Ginn?

    What's next, comparing Peyton Manning to Danny DeVito?
     
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  37. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Don't worry, he only means YAC!
     
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  38. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    So did I. I'm willing to bet Manning and Devito have similar YAC numbers.:shifty:
     
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  39. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Where did I bring other teams into this? I said that depth should be quality. I didn't say the other 31 teams have these players and we don't. I just said that we don't.

    This is not a zero sum game.

    They are very similar with the ball in their hands. Ginn is faster, but does nothing with his speed, as we all know. Gibson is Ginn-like in the way that he gets down, out of bounds, or otherwise fails to make any sort of forward progress from the exact spot in which he makes a reception.

    I have a bag of popcorn labeled Gibson ready to go when we get the inevitable threads about him during the season.
     
  40. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Ok. And you know that he will be replaced with great play why?



    Huh? two exact opposite players?



    Yes your right, Matthews rookie year could have been easily replaced, but what about his potential for the future..



    So your OK with cutting a player who is good against the run, and while you expect a 4th round rookie who can't play the run to save his life to replace him? Allllrighty...



    So you move Marshall to FS, cut Peterson, So you want to go into the season with a CB coming off major injury and 3 rookie CBs drafted after round 1, and no one to back up Marshall encase Grimes gets hurt and we are forced to move Marshall back to CB. Wouldn't Clemons be the exact definition of depth if he were moved to back up? lol



    Clay offers nothing? He can't be a weapon as a back up TE? As a back out of the back field? What on earth are you talking about.

    I see a common theme here with some guys. Such as Matthews, Weatman, Samuda, and Clay. You refuse young players...Do you not like potential at all? Depth also includes guys with ability and ability moving forward.
     

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