Ireland thread because we are desperate

Before or after you were going to, "educate" me?

Rhetorical question. I won't cause any more ruckus.

 

Mmkay... I never said Ireland is horrible. I also have no hatred of Ireland. I simply think he's made some very questionable decisions, and he's made ZERO great decisions. He's a hard-working, very knowledgeable, very mediocre NFL GM at this point, and Miami probably needs to hire someone better before they have any real chance to compete with the best teams in the NFL. My point, originally, was that Ireland has no proof of success in the draft whatsoever... yet, all I got back was 'Blame Parcells, not Ireland'. Yeah. Ok. The GM had nothing to do with anything. Gotcha.

I've had to fire people before. It isn't easy. In fact, it's downright awful. However, I would not have hesitated to fire Ireland when Ross fired Sparano. I would have done this based upon Ireland's full record as GM, the state of the roster under his watch, which he is absolutely responsible for, and upon the direction of the franchise.

Buh-bye. Next.

The only thing that's saved him in my eyes... at this point... is the Tannehill selection, who fell in his lap. And... again... that will only save him if Tanny wins a Superbowl in Miami... IMO.

 

Again... that was sarcasm. How many times do I need to say that?

 

Idk but next time you do I won't be seeing it.

 

That's what a poor boss would do, ie. making a decision based on your limited and simplistic information. A better boss would have spoken to the staff and the employee and gotten a more accurate picture of which decisions Ireland actually made and held him accountable for those.

And I would say that among the few decisions we know Ireland made that both Wake and Bess were great decisions.

 

While also comparing Ireland to what else is available at the GM position, which wasn't very much, imo.

 

To have the most accurate opinion on who was responsible for what since their arrival, I think you have to go back one year and understand the dynamics of how and why, and by whom Parcells was hired, IMO, because of the franchises complete ineptitude that previous reason, and just the pure embarrassment of how bad we were, and how bleak out future looked, to think that the first big money million dollar decisions would be given to a man who never had the position before, over a man that was paid to take us out of the gutter and who had the reputation that Parcells had, completely goes against all football business logic..

Do you really think Ireland was given carte Blanche and 50 million dollars to sign 3 players the first week of free agency, on his merry go round, Smiley, Wilford, and Grove.?..I'm not buying that for one second, but if you want to generalize all the acquisitions and lump them under the umbrella of Ireland, and really think Ireland was calling the shots on Parcells watch, I don't know what to say.

You think a Hall of fame coach in his first gig rebuilding a franchise and picking the groceries, would allow such freedom with a greenhorn?, Larry, You really think Parcells would allow someone else's eye determine how he would be perceived on such a huge rebuild.?

 

For some reason some individuals on here tend to think that those of us who don't think Ireland is a good GM, equates to us hating Ireland. I have never understood this assumption on the part of the Ireland supporters.

I don't know Ireland personally, so I obviously don't hate the man. I just don't feel he is qualified to be a GM in the NFL and I think the Dolphins record over the last few years is proof of this. There are a lot of politicians whom I feel are unqualified to hold office, yet that certainly doesn't mean I hate any of the politicians on a personal level.

Prior to retiring as a police officer in South Florida, there were several individuals which I worked with that I felt were not qualified for the position they held and I didn't hate any of these individuals either. The fact is that the Ireland supporters think Ireland has done a good job and that Ross was right in retaining him as the teams GM. There are also others, like myself, who feel that Ireland should have been fired along with Sparano.

I guess that by labeling us as HATERS, these supporters of Ireland want to try and diminish our opinions of the job Ireland has done as the Dolphins GM. Instead of just accepting that we have a different opinion than they do concerning Ireland, they want to refer to us as individuals who hate a person just because we feel he has done a poor job so far.

I realize that those who want to call us HATERS and question our opinions, while feeling that only they are always correct in their opinions, are nothing but HATERS themselves. They just hate the fact that anyone would disagree with what they consider their superior opinions on this forum.

 

I've come to think your not a hater, I believe you are writing what you really see, however, there are instances where what is fair in terms of judgement, need to be thoroughly thought out, variables all takin into account, before such convictions can be taking serious, for example in this instance, I personally have to take the points you made about Ireland with a grain of salt because I don't see you taking into account the variables in play when both were hired..If I was to judge Ireland on all personnel decisions since both men came here, I would fire him as well, but the logic of the situation, and some personal intuition doesn't allow me to agree with your POV at this time..

 

I understand that you just want Ireland to be judged on what he has done since Parcells departed the team. I just feel that Ireland had a lot more imput on the players drafted and signed in free agency during his entire time with the Dolphins than some other individuals do. He was hired as the teams GM in 2008 and I just find it hard to believe that he just did everything Parcells told him to do in regards to the draft and free agency. He came to the Dolphins because he was suppose to be an outstanding judge of talent. I have to feel he and Parcells both decided on the players to be selected and signed in free agency while Parcells was still with the team.

He also was fully responsible for the 2011 draft and the players on the 2011 roster and yet the Dolphins had their worst record of the last four years in 2011. Some people on here want to place all the blame on Sparano and the coaching staff for the teams record in 2011. I see it more as a coaching problem along with a personnel problem. The Dolphins just don't have a lot of play makers on either side of the ball and that is a problem created by the personnel department, which is run by Ireland.

I have accepted that Ireland is still the teams GM and I hope that the players he drafted this year and signed in free agency will help turn this team around. My judgement of Ireland is based on what I have seen from this team over the past three years and the overall lack of talent throughout the roster. If the Dolphins have a winning record next season, I assure you I will be quite happy to give a large share of the credit to Ireland.

I just wonder though if the Dolphins once again finish below 500, and God forbid in last place in the AFC East, will the Ireland supporters still want him to remain the teams GM in the years going forward?

 

Understanding that a person had a title in name only and judging him based on what we actually know he did does not make one a supporter or a detractor. It just makes a person a reasonable.

 

Djphinfan,

As far as you not agreeing with my POV at this time. I have absolutely no problem with that at all. I have NEVER stated that my opinions are right and everyone who disagrees with me are wrong. In fact I have been wrong in my opinions many times during my life. I view this forum as somewhere in which different point of views can be expressed and whether we agree with one another or not, we should all respect the opinions of others.

I just get offended when the term , "HATE", is applied to anyone that offers an opinion which is in the minority on this forum. I know you and I may disagree from time to time on this forum, but I have always found you to be open to the views of others, whether you agree with these views or not. I do appreciate individuals like you on this forum. Thank You.

 

Nope.

If you thought Ireland was a crappy GM based on the passed two years I'd respect your opinion. I do not respect holding someone responsible for something they didn't have control over. The constant adherence to the notion that Ireland is responsible for the things that happened when Parcells was here regardless of the facts and evidence to the contrary is the reason for the animosity.

The only reason anyone would stick to the notion that Ireland was in charge is because of an extreme emotional reason...like hate. There is certainly no rational reason.

 

Sorry if my view of Ireland seems unreasonable to you, but to me it seems very reasonable at the moment. We just have to agree to disagree and let there be not hard feelings.

 

It's about as reasonable as me calling you the Czar of the message board and then blaming you for anything I didn't like here when despite the title everybody knows you don't have control of the board.

 

I have absolutely no problem with your animosity toward me. In fact I understand why my comments might cause you to disagree with me and even get angry at my continued arguments that I hold Ireland more responsible than you do for the failure of the Dolphins over the past few years.

You certainly have a right to your opinion and I do respect it. What I don't respect is your insinuation that because I don't feel Ireland is a good GM, this means I HATE him. I don't hate anyone in fact. I just judge a man by the job he does and some men do better in their job than others.

I want nothing more than for Ireland to prove me wrong is my assessment of this abilities as the Dolphins GM. I am certainly not getting any younger and I would love to to see the Dolphins once again become a legitimate Super Bowl contender before I become worm food. Perhaps because I have already lived a long time, I am not as patience in regards to the Dolphins as you appear to me. I don't know how many more seasons I will get to see. So seeing the Dolphins once again going through another rebuilding process is a bitter pill I really did not want to have to take after a decade of mediocre to bad play on the field by this organization.

Unfortunately, it is what it is. So I just hope you and all the other Ireland supporters are right about his abilities and the team starts winning again real soon.

 

Rafael, You have your opinion and I have mind. I am not going to demand that you support my opinion or agree with it. You seem upset that I blame the man responsible for drafting and signing players for the overall lack of talent on the roster. Sorry, but that's the way I see it. If you don't see it that way, I respect your opinion and I can certainly live with it.

 

It is irrational to hold Ireland responsible for things that happened when parcells was here. It is madness that you come on here and say the same things over and over regardless of what evidence is provided to you.

There is only one reason some one can be sooo irrational while continuing the madness.....that's hatred. It doesn't matter that you don't call it that. It doesn't matter that you don't believe it. Logic dictates its the only reason for your position and the zealot like adherence to that position.

Or define how Ireland is responsible for things done while Parcells was here. Basically provide evidence that Ireland made the moves without Parcells input. Do that and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Now things that are not proof: the title of GM or a contract.

 

Its called circumventing. Making a situation look one way so that you can reap its benefits when in all reality it is a completely different way. Ireland HAD to have that state in his contract, it doesn't mean that it is the way it really was. Especially when recently he has come on record as saying THIS IS THE SECOND DRAFT IVE HAD CONTROL OVER.

 

Tell me how you justify Parcells, taking over a 1 and 15 team, a man on his his first executive gig, giving the other man he hired,tens of million of Dollars of his new owners money, to sign free agents ?

See I cant find that fathomable, so I can't look at a totality of Irelands work and judge his personal talent..

I also feel like personally he brought players Miles Austin, Tony Romo, and Cam Wake to the table, so, like I said, he's got midseason for my judgement on what we know is his players, this way we find out if there is a knack for finding talent, we'll see how his talent from last year steps up and how his rookies flash, so imo, there's not too much to go on that I see, to vehemently want him fired.

 

I am so done with this. You guys just keep believing whatever you want to believe. I am still astounded how people can twist logic to support their bias, while remaining completely blind to what they're doing at the same time. I don't know why I'm astounded.... I see it every single day.... yet, it still astounds me.

Ireland rawks. The Miami Dolphins roster is amazing. Go Phins.

 

It's pretty easy to see who was running the show when the second one walks away the general profile and traits of targeted players do a complete turn around. But go on thinking you're somehow smarter than everyone else and simply seeing what is plain in sight to you.

 

Yeah....so was I...

 

I don't think any of us 'hate' or 'love' a GM, coach or player in the pure sense of the word...it's just a term for those that like what a particular guy has done and those that don't like what a particular guy has done. Those terms are simply used for those that either support or don't support a particular guy in this discussion...

I think it's just too simple and wrong to assume that Irish made every move independent of Quitcells, something that anyone of football knowledge, even the simplest of fans like me, know that Irish had a boss whom he had to please and to whom he reported to. I also think it's too simple to blame Quitcells for every move and say he's the reason for everything that is wrong with this franchise now, because even if the picks were right the coaching and training staff could have done things or not done things that spelled doom for some of these players acquired, both rookie and FA alike.

The bottom line is that Ross decided, probably due to having Peterson in his ear, that he was going to forego blaming and set about to fix the issue. That's what a good manager does, he finds out what went wrong, puts steps in place to keep those from happening again and moves on. He had inside info on who may have decided what, at least more than we do by the mostly shoddy reporting that has gone on in this matter in SFL. Sometimes that means letting go of some of the members of the troup (in this case, Quitcells, Sparano and his coaching staff). Right or wrong we won't know yet...

As to Ireland's role in all this prior to really this year, it really no longer matters since Ross has chosen to go this path. You can blame Ross for all the wrong decisions made by Quitcells, Ireland and Sparano up until THIS year. This is when Ireland's new 'time period' begins, not last year.

I don't know that you can blame a guy for making moves that his boss would want him to make and that fits a mold that his boss is looking at... At the same time, you can't blame the guy for making moves the coaching staff would want him to make either. The best thing that has happened is that Ross has finally cleared the air of the Quitcells stench and now we can move on... We'll have to wait and see how well Irish can do on his own...

 

More.....

 

using the word "desperate " to describe the thread is hubris at best & reveals the hack mentality & lack of football understanding on our forum. Ireland is an excellent GM, who works with the head coach, whomever, to facilitate the game he envisions.

 

OK. We all know which side of the ledger I stand on in the Jeff Ireland debate.
However even the most staunch Ireland supporters would concede that he has not shown that he is a "great GM."
Right?

 

I dont respect when somebody keeps repeating something factually incorrect. It's not an opinion that Ireland did not have final say. Ireland admitted that Parcells took players off his board. Parcells and Ireland both admitted that Ireland had to go to Parcells to get permission for trades. I can disagree with and still respect an opinion based on reasonable facts, but when somebody's opinion is based on a fact everybbody knows is false you can't respect it.

 

My question is this. Ross CANNED Sparano but not Ireland. There was logic to this. Who here doubts Ross has better information and perspective on the situation than the fans?

 

You guys need to take off your aqua-and-orange colored glasses, put down your pom-poms, and... look... at... the... roster.

 

How could I possibly argue with that?

 

Stephen Ross hasn't exactly proven himself as a particularly 'insightful' or even 'capable' NFL owner. In fact, he's been downright embarrassing at times.

 

wow ! you dont say.

and having a legit wr corp is better then having a average wr corp . the Lions get it , the fins dont at least not the fan base.

i think we will be improved but I sure wont predict a 8 win season unless we land a big name receiver between now and the first game .

i think we have improve in all areas except wr . we really need a megatron or somebody like him

 

You do realize the irony of your statement when you are much more left of center in this thread then those right of centers your going after?

I couldn't care if Ireland stays or goes at this point, because there is purely zero proof as to what his role was while Parcells was here. I can only go off what he has done since Parcells left. Sure Ireland had the GM tag, but it was always tongue in cheek or they wouldn't have been allowed to grab him from Dallas. I mean what GM gets told he can only trade a 7th rounder for Tony McDaniel if he can obtain a pick back in that round? That sure doesn't sound like a true GM to me. Sounds more like the Rick Spielman saga all over again quite frankly where the GM was outruled by a coach wanting to 'pick the groceries'.

Also it doesn't take a rocket scientist to notice the fact that since Parcells has left things have changed as far as the draft/player aquisitions go. Ireland has been more conservative with his signings after cutting a lot of dead weight to the point that were going to be roughly $40-45 million under the cap next year depending on Jake Long's contract and whoever else they decide to re-sign (Davis, Starks, McDaniel, Sean Smith, Hartline all with coming due contracts). Also, the players we are bringing in aren't the physical strong freaks of nature Parcells liked. Right from his first post Parcells pick of Mike Pouncey we are bringing in more athletic types so no we can't point to Philbin as the reason for such. If anything the reason why Philbin is here is because he fits the philosophy Ireland wants that he was never in control of while Parcells was here to implement.

But it always comes down to 1 thing with GM's on what makes them good or bad.........the QB. Hit on this and your a genius most likely in the playoffs. Miss and your well......Miami for the past decade. So Ireland will live and die based on Tanny and that will be his legacy.

However, if folks think there is a magical GM out there that can fix all our problems....your dreaming. Front offices are built over time and are a product of several people right down to your regional scouts. Pittsburgh is a prime example. That is probably the best front office in the league. Yet when their GM's and underlings get to lead elsewhere it usually doesn't translate. That's because it's a collaborative effort and they benefit from low turnover and being able to groom and grow.

 

What was our WR core when we went 11-5? Exactly. While it would be nice to have more experience there this team does have a lot of youth that they need to figure out and you can't do that if your throwing in aged veterans with little left in the tank (Driver). Ireland is handling this right for now. He had a lot of holes to fill in the draft while having a lot of youth at the position. Work with what you have and by early August if they aren't coming together well enough then make a move. Luckily for us WR's tend to hit waivers a lot in August and even trading for one wouldn't be cost prohibitive compared to other positions (ie: DE).

As for Megatron...pfft. That's a very silly statement. That's like saying we need to go out and find a Dan Marino in his prime. Those type of WR's only come around maybe once every 4-5 years and you better have a top 3 draft pick for em.