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Irelands Draft Concerns

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by anlgp, Dec 13, 2008.

  1. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    Jeff Ireland Pre-Draft Press Conference Transcript - NEWS: Top Story Presented by WACHOVIA - MiamiDolphins.com

    That's from last year. Okay.

    LT - Definitely.
    QB - Maybe? Won't be drafting one this year.
    No .1 Receiver - This is a ? in my opinion. We might have a guy? Might be drafting one.
    Cornerback - Ehhhh.
    NT - Ferg is good but gettin' long in the tooth.
    Pressure Players - We've got one definite one in Porter but he's gettin long in the tooth too. If I take his "pressure" thing right.

    So what's this say to me?

    Cornerback, NT. Receiver. Pressure Player = OLB? Maybe LOLB?

    Used in the first three pics? NT, OLB, CB.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    I hope your right. I think NT is the most important bc our whole defense rides on that position. We all saw what happened when Ferguson was out.

    OLB/CB is a coin toss for 2nd priority. It'll be interesting to see if try Merling out at OLB more during the offseason also.

    I would definitely not mind seeing the OL addressed early either. We all know our FO is focused on the trenches first so I'm not too concerned.
     
  3. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    OL I think can wait. You can get some good guards in the later rounds, even RTs as well. I think with a guy like Thomas, our FO shows it can nab a good one or two later in the draft.

    Id rather see our early draft hit the defensive side pretty hard. We need to come out with a DT, CB and OLB. Toss in a WR as well and thats the core spots. I think there wont be a CB good enough for where we are picking-i see Jenkins and Davis atm as top 15s, everyone else is a 2nd atm, though ofc a good combine could bump some up.
    I see DT and OLB as deep for the first/second rounds, I think you can get a good kid later in the first where it seems we will be picking at now.
     
  4. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    CB, OLB, NT.

    And we need a young ILB and a Safety to compete with Hill.

    Top Flight, shut down CB's are hard to find, if one is in our sights at #20+, we should take them, NT can wait, and CB is only slightly more important then a pass rushing OLB.
     
  5. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    How so? If you dont pressure on the QB, the WR's will run around and will eventually get open. A pass rusher is more important than a CB IMO.
     
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  6. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    By the way my NT, OLB, CB prediction isn't necessarily in that order. I have no idea what's inside Irelands head but those are all positions he sees as valuable and that's why I think based upon parcells history is why I go that route.

    It seems parcells likes to draft lines and linebackers but has been talked into a corner or two over the years

    BTW, ireland is the general manager but is parcells the say all end all of football operations between the three of them?

    I know how the hierarchy works but where do you guys think the line stops?
     
  7. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Because a top notch CB can take a side of the field off the opponents game plan, and they can create Turnovers and allow for coverage sacks.

    When an offense can practically not throw to the left side of the field, a defense has a much easier job, that is why Deon Sanders was paid so heavily in his prime.
     
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  8. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Our draft slot will put the really good Cb prospects off the table, they don't slide to #18 or later, so it will be a Dlineman or a OLB..they can slide back a bit.


    Both were taken earlier then #18 or so though, Newman was a #8 pick IIRC and Ty Law was also in that range.

    Last year it appeared that Tuna was in charge of the early picks, Ireland in charge of the #4-7 picks. Ireland did okay with those picks, except for Shawn Murphy, this year's Lorenzo Booker..



    IMO, not yet, Ireland is still a little wet behind the ears, and we still have many needs...Ireland is on the bench the same way Henne is...:lol:
     
  9. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    This is a pretty trench-heavy draft. There are a lot of good tackles, both offensive and defensive. There are some playmaking linebackers. There are even a few good centers. At this point it's safe to say we'll keep stocking the defensive front seven and the offensive front five simply because of where this year's talent is focused.

    As for what order we go with... it's a little early to chalk that up right now.
     
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  10. Big Red

    Big Red Long Lasting Freshness

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    Great post! Ireland was true to his word on day one last year as he took a LT, QB, and two pressure players (sort of) in Merling and Langford.

    LT - Jake Long
    QB - Chad Pennington
    No. 1 Receiver - Ted Ginn
    Cornerback - Will Allen
    NT - Jason Ferguson
    Pressure Players - Joey Porter and Matt Roth

    Those are our current starters.

    We know we're not drafting a left tackle on day one. Depending on what happens with Carey we're not drafting a right tackle either. Once Smiley and Thomas are healthy we're probably not going OG either. Not on day one anyway. That leaves Center and there are some very good ones coming out.

    If Pennington isn't our starting QB next year, then Henne most certainly will be. So we're not drafting a QB on day one next year.

    Ted Ginn is not a redzone threat. Not yet anyway. To my way of thinking that means he is not a number one receiver. All of the top wideouts in the league score many touchdowns. Depending on who falls where we might draft a WR on day one. Look what Randy Moss did for the Patriots last year. Football is football and despite what we might think we know about Parcells and Ireland the fact remains that WR is a very real possibility. Even in the 1st round.

    Cornerback is also a very real possibility. Will Allen is very good but you can't put him on an island with the best wideouts in the league.

    We're pretty much set with Jason Ferguson at NT. Except he's somewhat susceptible to injury since he's on the downside of his career. Plus there are some extremely talented NT prospects coming out this year.

    Joey Porter has been the very definition of a pressure player this season. Matt Roth not so much. However, Roth is very good at setting the edge. His strength against the run makes me wonder...

    One of the main reasons you run a 3-4 defense is because the offense doesn't know where the fourth rusher is going to come from. Could be one of the OLBers or an ILB, S, or even a... wait for it... CB. Yes, that's right. I'm thinking CB might be more of a priority than OLB this year.

    Think about it. If we draft a shutdown corner that would free up Will Allen to blitz the QB more often.

    I believe its a real possibility that we don't go OLB on day one. There are a handful of very good pass rushers that should be available on day two. A situational player who comes in on third and long and plays special teams. I could definitely see us going in that direction.
     
  11. Regan21286

    Regan21286 MCAT's, EMT's, AMCAS, ugh

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    I'm gonna put a no on that for #1 WR. We got great #2 or #3 ones but none that I would even remotely place next to other #1's.
     
  12. bakedmatt

    bakedmatt Well-Known Member

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    I'm almost certain they'll be taking an OLB.* Only NT is a maybe.






    *That is as long as a remarkable talent doesn't drop unexpectedly.
     
  13. calfishman

    calfishman Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Parcell's is certainly a key part of the drafting process and he probably could over rule Ireland. None the less, I suspect all the picks were Ireland's. I vaguely recall a post draft press conference discussing Merling and Henne. Parcell's really wanted Henne with the first 2nd round pick and made a comment like "you guys better be sure about this (picking Merling)". That's one of the reasons the staff was so happy when Henne was still on the board for their late 2nd round pick.
     
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  14. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Good nugget, I did know Tuna was not 100% on Jake Long, that is why he set the deadline for signing him as the Sunday prior to the draft.

    I've forgotten who Tuna was high on though..
     
  15. Mrtree

    Mrtree Juan Huron's agent Club Member

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    Chris Long.....

    <cough> vernon gholston <cough>
     
  16. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    Good Cornerbacks can be found in late round 1, they just fall for lacking in one department (for example size). Also CB's in late round 1 tend to need more time to develope and might not be ready to start day 1. The talent is out there though its just a matter of evaluating it correctly. Of all positions though I think CB's might be the hardest to find hidden gems in the draft. So I definately think we will be drafting a CB (or Safety) with at least one of our first 3 picks.

    One thing to note about Ireland is that he tends to look for "role players." People say we need a number 1 WR, but I think we will just wait to a later round to get a BIG possession WR like a Ramses Barden, Aaron Kelly, or Patrick Turner (can anyone provide insight into why he is projected so low? I know he doesn't run the best routes, but he isn't as bad as some people have him).

    I honestly think Ireland is way more involved than we give him credit for and I think Parcells might be less involved than we think (IMO he plays the role of an adviser). I think Parcells plays a lot bigger role in Free Agency than the draft for some reason. Its just my gut feeling though.
     
  17. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    Depends on what we do via FA.

    If we pick up a corner like Bryant McFadden from Pitt then I can rule out Corner for the first few rounds.

    at 26 I like Sintim or Raji.
     
  18. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Good rushers make average corners look better. The more pressure, the less time corners have to cover for. This whole "taking away one side of the field" looks great on paper and gets plenty of play from cod NFL psychologists, but in the real world it's the stuff of fantasy.
     
  19. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    Boomer, given Ireland's concerns if you were him going on this criteria alone which three players would you pick with the #1 and the two #2s?
     
  20. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    If our 1st pick isn't defensive front 7 or OL then colour me staggered.
     
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  21. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    These were concerns from 12 months ago.

    If I was picking at what, 25, 44 and 54 or whatever it is, I'd be going for Jerry Huges, Ndamakung Suh or Max Unger at 24 and then try and come away with Rashard Johnson at 44 and probably go back to the trenches well again later in 2 or an ILB.

    Who knows. It's far too early to tell. I put more stock in Sparano saying that we need to re-invest in the 2 lines and in what Ireland has done before; picking pressure players like Anthony Spencer, after picking Ware, etc.
     
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  22. creasy

    creasy Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The other question is what will we address in free agency? Will they try and make a big splash (Haynesworth)? Or do they use FA to build depth? Either way what a fascinating off-season.

    also this combine will be very differnt for me then last year. I have to admit that i was so focused on the top tier guys (Gholston, Dorsey both Long's, McFadden) that i didnt pay as much attention to the players outside of that group.

    This year, because of where we are picking, there are so many players and positions for this staff to consider (WR, DL, OLB, OL). It will be a lot of fun reading all of the breakdowns on these players, and seeing who are staff is meeting with. The analysis will be endless.

    I didnt think it was possible to get any more excited for a draft then i was last year, but this year my enthusiasm is through the roof.
     
  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I'm there with ya still.

    I notice he didn't name center fielder as one of those core positions, so maybe the William Moore prediction is off after all.

    We need to re-sign Goodman and Bell, and add three new players to the secondary...a starting free safety, a premium prospect that can play nickel CB and eventually play starting CB, and probably another draft prospect that can play dime safety/corner.

    We need to replace Charlie Anderson at LDE in pass rush sets. If you can accomplish this in the form of a guy that can learn OLB and eventually take Roth's position or maybe Porter's, fantastic. We probably need two such players.

    Rodrique Wright might be our best DT pass rusher in those 4-man pass rush sets. He needs to be active on game days, IMO.

    Something tells me, they may not really address NT with a high pick or high investment after all...unless they were to make a decision to go for Haynesworth as a means of turning the position into the strength of the defense.

    Karlos Dansby would look nice playing next to Channing Crowder, no? I keep wanting to say that I've heard Dansby's name connected with Parcells before, too. He's 6'4" and 250 pounds and has 30 more tackles than any other player on the Cardinals defense. He's a good pass rusher (24.5 career sacks), he intercepts the ball (9 career ints), he forced fumbles (11 career), he deflects passes (26 career). He'll be 28 years old. Why not?
     
  24. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Dansby, by the way, led a defensive charge against the Falcons in this playoff game to where they held the dangerous Michael Turner to his lowest production of the season. Dansby had like 7 tackles against the run, and those runs gained only 14 yards, with three of the tackles happening behind the line of scrimmage for loss.
     
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  25. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    It is easier to find a good corner then it is to find a pass rusher who can consistently pressure the Qb.

    Boomer or anyone else, on our front 7, which would be the weak link

    The Linebacking Corps, or the Dline rotation?
     
  26. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Cb wasn't addressed though, we made do.


    Unger, Cb, Lb, Lb would be a good draft for us if we hit on the later picks.

    BTW, Anyone else notice B Spikes arguing with someone last night and the ball was snapped and he was still arguing...guy took the ball down inside the 10...danger...danger...danger..


    Different situations, the Cowboys signed Colombo that year didn't they?
     
  27. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    I love Dansby, I see no reason why he couldnt be a Phin this offseason. I think he and Channing could be a really solid pair of ILBs for us for a long time.
    I think we look to resign Goodman as well, he was our best CB for a good chunk of the season, and ofc Bell.
     
  28. joeydolfan

    joeydolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not sure about Boomers answer, but as for me I would say as an overall unit it is the LB core that is lacking more than the Dline rotation.

    I am fine with the Ends we have and dont feel it is a pressing need in this draft. NT would be my only concern there. We can use both OLB and ILB in this coming draft though.
     
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  29. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I'll reply to the rest of this in a bit, but quickly searching through the BBC archive, I found this:

     
  30. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    We don't get enough pressure from either. Look at Pitt; one minute it's Harrison, then it's Woodley, here comes Polamalu, then it's Timmons, here comes Farrior, now it's Smith, here comes Kiesel, etc.
     
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  31. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    My take as well, to me we have 4-3 guys trying to play the 3-4 at the moment.


    A Dline rotation of Merling, Langford, Starks, Fergie, Holiday and Canty would be nice...

    Canty would press Holiday for playing time, but both can get upfield.
     
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  32. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    There's the connection I was looking for. One of Dansby's biggest suitors coming out was Dallas. It looks like Belichick was considering him at pick #32, but they took Ben Watson instead. Arizona picked at #33. Dallas didn't get to pick until #43. I'm guessing they would have selected him there but as he was off the board, they went with Julius Jones.

    Interesting Dansby-Torbor connection. Entirely possible that Torbor was acquired this off season as a guy that Parcells remembered seeing when he was scouting Dansby. They were probably hoping that he'd turn into a Dansby, but he didn't.
     
  33. joeydolfan

    joeydolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Any way we can swap Torbor for Dansby straight up? :lol:
     
  34. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Found this as well:

     
  35. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Hah. They might end up paired, who knows?
     
  36. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The reason I probably remembered it is because I'm sure I read something suggesting that Dansby was one of Parcells' pet cats...one of the guys he'd taken a shine to, and it would make sense for that to have gotten some pub that year because the Cowboys didn't pick until pick #43, so from Cowboys fan and media perspective, that pick was their top pick in the draft and so they probably talked about Dansby the way we were all jiving about guys like Jason Allen, Manny Lawson and Chad Greenway back in 2006.

    And notice we made strong plays for two guys that once played with Dansby...Reggie Torbor, and Calvin Pace. There was a lot of speculation a year ago about whether or not Dansby would be franchised. Could be they also had Calvin Pace on radar from having been looking into the Dansby situation. Might be a bit far fetched, but possible.
     
  37. finforlife

    finforlife Junior Member

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    If I remember correctly, the Cowboys actually had a pick in the mid 20s that year, but traded it to Buffalo and the Bills took J.P. Losman. The Cowboys then took Spears and Ware with the two No. 1s the next draft.
     
  38. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    IIRC, Parcells wanted to draft Spears ahead of Ware.
     
  39. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree about taking someone in the front 7, but do you really think they'd take an OL in the 1st?
     
  40. Mile High Fin

    Mile High Fin New Member

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    I think so, only if they let Vernon Carey go. Which seems to be the rumor de jour.


    And this year's draft is loaded with OT talent.
     

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