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Discussion in 'AFC East Rivals' started by djphinfan, Apr 17, 2019.
IDC f he goes 19-0 with the Jet's. He was NOT a good coach in Miami.
I do believe the jets will be good and win games..not because of gase but because he has given complete autonomy to his version of Buddy Ryan and he has an ascending hi level playmaking QB..he needs a QB that can play the game off script.
Sam Darnold was the youngest starting QB ever.
Others that started at age 21 are Vick, Smith, Bledsoe, Stafford and Winston. None of them elite QB's (or even close, except for a few years here and there). So starting that young doesn't mean greatness lies ahead. It actually supports my prediction he'll be at best average, with random variation obviously from year to year. We'll see.
I generally agree that fans obsess too much about coaches and players who are not on the team.
However Gase is a Jet
It doesn’t support anything as far as your projection of him failing, I was just stating a fact..and that the experience starting that young has impact on the field..
We’ll see how he ascends or descends..
To me its telling when the Ravens let CJ Mosley walk. They basically said CJ is a good player, but he’s not Ray Lewis and we arent going to pay him like that. Jets overpaid big time.
Ravens won’t settle..
We were in the playoffs year 1 under Gase, without our QB1 who had won 9 of 10 straight. And that QB was the same one who struggled his entire career....are we calling 2016 a "scam"?
2017, said QB went down 2 weeks before pre-season and we had to scramble. Gase thought Cutler was the best choice...he wasn't...and the year was pretty miserable. Then Cutler got knocked out, so we started overhauling the line mid-season because the protection was horrible. Then Moore got knocked out and we ended the year on a 4th stringer. Oh, our coke-head line coach that was wildly respected around the league quit as well. Was that a "scam"?
2018, Gase starts 3-0, loses said QB for a 3rd season in a row, and our offense sputters as darn-near every starter we have on that side of the ball goes down. We finish 6-10 and Gase is fired because "he wants to win now" and Ross wants to overhaul the entire team. Is that a scam?
In 2018....yes, it was a massive scam....because Ross is a complete idiot. The rebuild might work, it might not, but it's not because of Adam Gase, Grier or any other name you want to throw in the mix. Because truth be told, our problem all three seasons (and the 10 before that) all stemmed from the offensive line....and we just let our 2nd and 3rd best linemen walk. So far, that's not progress at all...it's stupidity because solid players got hurt and Ross decided they were too old.
Going into 2019, we're expecting to "magically" draft three starting linemen, a starting QB, a starting RB, two starting slot receivers, an entire starting defensive line and a starting corner. If you want to talk about "scam", then let's talk about how we're going to land those 12 players with 7 total draft picks and zero action in free agency. Yes, we're being scammed right now because there's no way every single pick will turn into a 10 year veteran.......yet people don't want to think about that.
Adam Gase delivered EXACTLY what he promised though and built a team that could contend....we saw it early last season when our defense was WORLDS BETTER than the rest of the league. The injuries sucked and I'm not happy about the losses either, but you have to be a complete moron to think Adam Gase somehow scammed us. Key people got hurt and Tannehill finished the season ugly...just like he has every single season of his career due to a lack of quality backup linemen. That's the font office folks....it always has been and it continues to be the main issue.
Gase owns what he did during his time here in Miami. Don't act like he doesn't. When he was announced as HC Ross said Gase would have "final say" over the 53-man roster. And in 2018 Gase himself said he has the team he wants. The guy fired all kinds of key players to get the type of players he wanted, and we all saw the results: average in win% and bottom feeders in offensive and defensive scoring.
Give the guy credit for his ability to win close games, but don't act like the roster wasn't his. Half the posters here knew way back when that we needed a better QB than Tannehill, yet Gase thought Tannehill was the answer?? And not just in 2016, but in 2018!!! Why not draft a QB high in 2017 as insurance AFTER Tannehill's injury? Nah.. the great Gase believed Tannehill was the answer lol.
And no, Gase did not build a team that could contend by the time he was finished in 2018. One playoff appearance in his first year followed by two losing seasons? That the same as Sparano, except that what Sparano did was more impressive because he's the only coach that led a team to the playoffs after a 1-win season! Blame Ross for hiring Sparano, Philbin and Gase, but don't put the blame on Ross for the roster, the in-game decisions, or overall scoring efficiency or win%. This was Gase's team, and we're in a far better place now that it no longer is.
Yes you can, and there are countless examples of failed NFL head coaches to prove it. I knew after gase first season that he was a fraud.
He is a a decent OC at best who can succeed if he has a HOF QB. That is the only thing he has proven in his career.
As I said, we finished 2018 with basically our entire offense on injured reserve (and even worse, with a nervous Tannehill on the field)- are you really faulting Gase for that? I mean, you can certainly fault him for not having better backups in place, and Cutler/Osweiller is also 100% on his shoulders. I'm definitely not saying he's blameless by any means, but your own stats showed there was an "x-factor" in the Gase tenure where the team consistently won 2-3 more games than our stats indicated. With a drastically changing roster from one year to the next (and sometimes one game to the next), it's hard to argue that the x-factor wasn't Gase.
Again, we will have a clear answer whether we made a smart move or not by the end of this year. I'll let results do the talking from here on out.
Ok, go ahead and get hired as a HC. I'll be happy to admit I'm wrong when that happens.
Most of our key players on offense were not on injured reserve during most of the season. Gore, Amendola, Stills, Tunsil and James all started 14+ games and Tannehill started 11 games. Even Grant started 10 games. Injuries always look worse when you look at your own team, but our injuries were not exceptional compared to other teams. For example, look at games missed to injury in 2018:
Miami was average by that metric.
And yes Gase won 2-3 more close games than expected given point differential, but he was also responsible for that abysmal point differential! And that "changing roster" was in large part due to Gase so you can't act like he had nothing to do with it.
Yes we'll see how he does with the Jets. I predict he won't do better than average in 2019 and also not after 3 years. Knowing the Jets though, they might stick with him longer .. to our benefit.
We made the playoffs in 2016 largely because of Jay Ajayi and his breakout season. Not because of case. He then proceeded to get rid of Ajayi and alienate almost every key player we had who challenged his ego. By the end of 2018 he had completey lost the players. Gase does not know how to lead a football team. That is why he was fired.
So you're saying Ross lied to the media to protect Gase? Because that's the only other conclusion here- either Ross is an idiot or Ross is a liar.
Gase is a scam because of what I said in my original post..
I suppose you like your head coaches absent on the practice field Solely focused on calling plays?
I had a lot of hope for Gase when he was hired, but he proved pretty early that his ideas of how to run a team and an offense were very, very different than what I would have wanted them to be. Cramming square pegs into round holes, badly misusing guys in bizarre ways, and having little to no interest in moving the chains and gaining first downs, but rather always trying to set up the big play like a 12-year old playing Madden.
The Fins had some of the worst seasons in franchise history at gaining first downs, third down conversion, time of possession, Red Zone visits, number of plays run, and field goals attempted, among others, in every season he was here.
Yes, he seemingly had an amazing ability to get the players to pull unbelievable, unrepeatable, big plays out of their rear ends at just the point that they needed to. However without those plays, the team would lost 75% of the games that they ended up winning, and he would have come out of three years as a head coach with a record around 10-38, never to be hired again.
Excellent point about Tannehill..
Jay Cutler..Julius Thomas..Jermon Bushrod...Cameron Jordan...Ryan Tannehill..
He vouched, and they all failed..right in his face he couldn’t see it..
I can tell you from what I’m reading he has no say on personnel in New York, zip.
Yeah that's another reason to pay attention to the Jets. It's absolutely crucial for the GM and HC to have the same philosophy and we all know Gase has an ego big enough to flip off the owner! (which was totally disrespectful to Ross btw..). Imagine what's going to happen when he and Maccagnan don't agree lol.
Whatever the power structure is on paper, the amount of influence Gase has on personnel will come down to his (absent?) interpersonal skills, especially with Maccagnan but also with Johnson & Johnson lol (Woody and Christopher, the two owners of the Jets who incidentally are grandsons of the founder of Johnson & Johnson).
So I think it's just a matter of time till we hear about dysfunction in that organization again. Oh, and Maccagnan is in win-now mode while Gase was just hired so has time to try and build something. Seeds for dysfunction have been planted! Stay tuned...
The other thing about Tannehill is that it had been obvious to the fans that if Tannehill was going to amount to anything as a QB he needed above average OL play. Yet Gase came in and refused to invest on the interior OL because with his system you could make do with average guards. (I’m trusting what people in Club have said on this).
I’ve been strongly pro-Tannehill. I still think he can be a viable starting QB in this league if he given the right situation. But if I want Tannehill was my QB I want to get him some quality OGs in front of him because he don’t do well when the interior OL has problems.
The other issue is that in life it’s normal not to hit 100% of your goals. So if you aim for average, then most likely you will get below average.
I admit I bought into the initial Gase hype. But it bothered me, and in hindsight should have bothered me a lot more, when he did nothing serious to upgrade the interior OL when he committed to RT17 as his QB in 2016.
he pimped himself out as soon as he left us, I don't think he has any leverage at this point anyways..just shut up and call plays..ya know his m.o
I don't mean this in a bad way to anyone who believed in Tannehill til the end, but if your the offensive coordinator, which gase was, and you couldn't see that tannehill had fatal flaws, you don't know what your looking at.jmo.
Ross lied to the media. At least publicly. Happens all thet time in case you didn't know. There were numerous reports off the record that gase had lost the support of the players and had even disrespected Ross. That's why he was fired.
I don't think that RT was ever the problem. It was trying to use him the wrong way, both by Philbin and then by Gase, that was the issue. When you have a QB who isn't at the top of the league, you need to tailor your offense to suit what he does well. Failure to do so shows that Gase couldn't hack it. That's what I take away from it.
On another note, I saw pics of Gase looking insane at his Jets presser on a non-football comedy site this morning. It was gold.
Tannehill couldn't handle pressure. Miami couldn't keep a starting line on the field and their backups were often bad. I really think it was that simple for the guy's entire career. Who's to blame? Ireland. Philbin. Tannenbaum. Grier. Ross. Gase. At least a dozen scouts, countless support staff, coaches and executives- this is a team problem from top to bottom.
Thinking that a 15 year problem magically gets fixed because we replace Gase or Tannehill is not logical- our next starting QB will be worse than RT and our line will be worse as well. Maybe the coaching will be better across the board and maybe Grier does focus on the trenches in this draft...but to me that only makes trading Tannehill even dumber. He was clearly the best QB we had since Marino and he had one glaring weakness- how hard was it to make the line a priority?
To make matters worse, you hear the media saying in unison that Miami needs to strengthen the trenches but you've yet to hear a coach or executive say that...and they've cut four starters at positions of desperate need (QB, T, G, G/C). While we hope that's a priority next week, we really have no idea and I'm all out of blind faith for this team. We will be starting 3 or 4 rookie linemen this year with an unproven quarterback (or Fitzpatrick)...that's a recipe for disaster no matter how you look at it.
I'll finish where I started- Tannehill couldn't handle pressure....he was the league's worst at that one aspect of the game. We didn't do him any favors in that area though and we saw the same problems with Osweiler, Moore and Cutler. This draft will make or break the 2019 season and I just don't have faith our front office will get it right after getting it wrong for 15 straight years.
It took a bong mask for us to land a starting left tackle....what will it take to fill the other four line slots?
Qbs have to make plays to win big games, tannehill was a pendulum..if you wanted to stick with that for our future, we are on different planets.
LOL, well we already know that you and I are on opposite sides of the planet based on what we want at the QB position.
Tannehill's time here ran its course and it was time to move on, but that was because of terrible coaching and management. I can only hope that the next QB is treated better than he was.
He was practically given carte blanche the day he was drafted when we ported over not only his head coach from college, but his playbook as well. Let's also not forget they never drafted a legit backup nor let anyone really compete with him later on in his Dolphins tenure to mitigate the "bust" label.
Miami's or more specifically Gase's ignorance regarding the O-line was not mutually exclusive to Tanny's treatment in Miami.
Adam Gase couldn’t see the flaws in a flawed qb..that’s where we’re at, he also didn’t use the flawed qb correctly, that’s just another reason why he got fired.
Tannehill's time ran its course mostly because of Tannehill himself. A QB that needs everything else to be near perfect so that all his weaknesses aren't exposed simply isn't that good of a QB. And the fact Tannehill performed similarly under different coaches as well as the fact there was very little interest in him in free agency – yeah.. he beat out Gabbert for a backup role with the Titans lol – shows that GM's in the NFL also don't think he's that great. Oh, and Tannehill has never been above Tier 3 in that annual QB tier ranking by NFL insiders.
So this isn't just a difference in opinion between posters here. The NFL in general doesn't think Tannehill is some hidden gem that with the right coaching would make teams a consistent winner. The lack of interest in him was deafening.
Not 30 year old Tannehill, coming off of major knee injuries, no. But I'll always believe that his career could have gone a lot better than it did.
RT's problems are all upstairs. Blame it on coaching or blame it on his brain, it really doesn't matter, the facts are he never improved in the mental aspect of the game. I tend to blame it more on his brain. He's just not able to process the game in a way that good QB's can.
I hav a slight disagreement that Tannehill couldn’t handle pressure. He showed many times he could hang in the pocket and deliver strikes when he knew the pressure was coming.
What he can’t t handle is chaos. Unexpected pressure. Also if the WR runs crisp downfield routes like Stills he can deliver the ball on a penny. But when the WR wanders randomly downfield like Wallace he can’t find him to deliver the ball.
Tannehill sees what his mind tells him what should be there, not what actually is there.
To be 100% honest, Tannehill wasnt the same after his knee injury.
He went from a guy who, although his pocket presence wasnt great, could make last second plays with his legs to throw the ball away or get a few yards.
After the injury he lost that bit of mobility in my opinion and just looked like a sitting duck a lot of the time. Not to say the pressure was his fault or could always be avoided.
I'm certainly not "blaming" RT...he clearly gave everything he had on any given down. It was no secret though that his biggest weakness was reacting to the pocket suddenly breaking down. Why focusing on the trenches has eluded our coaches and GMs for almost two decades now simply boggles my mind
He didn't have good pocket presence is the better way of putting it. He didn't have those proverbial eyes in the back of the head that allow many other QB's to gain an extra second or two in the pocket by taking a step away from an oncoming rusher, and he often took a sack even when he saw the pressure coming. He also didn't know when to take off and run except on rare occasion.
It is what it is.. bigger question is do we finally solve this post-Marino QB riddle (excepting that 1-year of Pennington). It isn't an overstatement to say Flores' future will depend on it.
theres no reason, on any level to debate Tanehill anymore..He indicted himself..subject has left the building, the fact that a pro coach could not see the fatal flaws is just another reason why he is a scam.