Is Henning the right OC??

I just don't know. If I'm being completely honest with everyone, I'm still not over the Ricky Williams pass in Buffalo. I like a lot of what Henning has done for our offense. But the fact that he could suffer such an epic brainfart in such an important game for our playoff chances worries me.

Dan Henning is a good OC, we've just got alot of people who like to bitch and backseat coordinator without considering the reality of the offense last year. For every bit of shrieking about how they got too cute or something like that there was multiple "cute" plays that were successful no one said **** about or was positive over.

Bofin wrote:

Will he run some more 4 receiver sets?

ckparrothead did a formation review and he found that those aren't commonly used, especially in regards to what the Dolphins used and faced last year. It's more like you go three wide with a split TE or something like that.

Bofin wrote:

still go with a lot of 2 TE formations?

This, probably. Dan Henning helped invent the 2-TE set as a base offense, Tony Sparano and Tony Parcells made it the base formation in Dallas their last year, to the point where they drafted Fasano in the 2nd.

"MonstBlitz wrote:

I just don't know. If I'm being completely honest with everyone, I'm still not over the Ricky Williams pass in Buffalo. I like a lot of what Henne has done for our offense. But the fact that he could suffer such an epic brainfart in such an important game for our playoff chances worries me.

I've never seen a single complaint ever about any of our successful runningback passes, which overwhelmingly come in the same situation. Even after the meltdown when Cam Cameron called one in 2007. If it works, it's brilliant, if it doesn't it's so incredibly stupid, never anywhere inbetween.

"Bofin wrote:

Just thought i'd try to get some insight on how our offense will operate next season and if ya'll think our current OC is the right man to utilize our people best. I think Henning has done a nice job getting our best players on the field and getting the ball in their hands,,, ie.. wildcat.
Will he run some more 4 receiver sets? still go with a lot of 2 TE formations? Will the wildcat still be an important piece? What about Pat White's role,,,, traded? I know a lot still depends on the draft and possible veteran pick-ups but its really intriguing and i know there are some knowledgeable folks on the forum with some interesting ideas. i am really excited by the Marshal pick-up and think we can really be explosive with the right game plan. What do ya'll think???

I'm not sure what types of sets he'll run, it largely depends on who is still here and how some guys (namely Turner) develop. That said, remember the Panthers of a few years ago when Steve Smith first burst onto the scene ?? Henning did ok with him.... Remember (if you're old enough) what Henning did with Joe Gibbs offenses during his first tenure with the Skins... He's capable and likely to devise all kinds of sets as long as our run game is consistent enough. Also, remember that Henning was also very involved in integrating the WC into our offense....He's been accused of being too conservative at times, but he's also been very innovative by adjusting to his personnel, while sticking to 'his' scheme and MO. I don't worry that Henning won't utilize his weapons, I worry more that the OL will be solid, that the RBs will be healthy, etc....

As for White, I'm not too sure. This regime has been quick to eradicate themselves of mistakes, however a 2nd round pick, after only one year is pretty tough to give up on. Where does he fit ?? I'm not sure. I didn't follow him too much in college, and he certainly didn't show jack last year with us....good, bad or indifferent. What do we really have to base any decision on with White ?? We don't...they may have more to go on with how he practices to improve, how he meshes with the team, etc, but what do we really know about White other than he didn't show much to us last season...

thanks guys, i think henning can do a great job here, and has done an excellent job so far. disgust,,,, i did not know henning was one of the 2 TE formation innovators, really hope we can pick up a TE that can threaten the seam and do some things vertically, maybe kory sperry is already that guy.

"Disgustipate wrote:

Dan Henning is a good OC, we've just got alot of people who like to bitch and backseat coordinator without considering the reality of the offense last year. For every bit of shrieking about how they got too cute or something like that there was multiple "cute" plays that were successful no one said **** about or was positive over.

ckparrothead did a formation review and he found that those aren't commonly used, especially in regards to what the Dolphins used and faced last year. It's more like you go three wide with a split TE or something like that.

This, probably. Dan Henning helped invent the 2-TE set as a base offense, Tony Sparano and Tony Parcells made it the base formation in Dallas their last year, to the point where they drafted Fasano in the 2nd.

"Disgustipate wrote:

I've never seen a single complaint ever about any of our successful runningback passes, which overwhelmingly come in the same situation. Even after the meltdown when Cam Cameron called one in 2007. If it works, it's brilliant, if it doesn't it's so incredibly stupid, never anywhere inbetween.

This:up:

It was moreso Ricky throwing the ball than it was the call...Ronnie had showed he could do it...when was the last time Ricky had thrown a pass?. Of course, from the two it was a questionable call, completed or not.

Henning should have some more options this season with Marshall in the lineup, especially with Cobbs coming out of the backfield and hopefully Fasano or his replacement cured of the dropsies (Remember how effective Martin was).

Barring the unexpected, IMO, this season, with Henning having a reasonable tool box on which to draw, will provide a realistic litmus test as to whether his play-calling is contemporary or if he's in effect a dinosaur.

Marshall provides Henning a new weapon and a way to open up and spread the defense. I don't think you will have as many DBs playing as close to the line of scrimage as they have been, especially if Ginn finally gets it.
I can't wait to see our offense in action with everyone healthy.

He's gonna have to put forward his best efforts in order to screw this one up.

If at any time he has BM throwing to CH out of the Wildcat, we'll know for sure...

I hate not having 5 WR's active on gameday. When we do run a 5 WR set usually its Fasano, Haynos (or Polite) out there with Cam, Hartline, Bess (or Ginn).. And the screen pass, dont even get me started. Now that we have Marshall we are going to need to feed him. I'm sure our offense will look some what different this year. We need to spread the field. I'm fine with running a 2 TE set if we are running and calling Play action out of it but the fact that Haynos is far from a threat makes the 2 TE set worth less (not worthless).

"Disgustipate wrote:

I've never seen a single complaint ever about any of our successful runningback passes, which overwhelmingly come in the same situation. Even after the meltdown when Cam Cameron called one in 2007. If it works, it's brilliant, if it doesn't it's so incredibly stupid, never anywhere inbetween.

right.. Why would something that doesnt work be considered good? If its good it works, if its bad it doesnt, in all situations. If someone gets an F on their history test, does that mean they are good at history because they got an A on their math test.

"MonstBlitz wrote:

I just don't know. If I'm being completely honest with everyone, I'm still not over the Ricky Williams pass in Buffalo. I like a lot of what Henne has done for our offense. But the fact that he could suffer such an epic brainfart in such an important game for our playoff chances worries me.

The reverse to Ted Ginn, the screen to Lousaka Polite. Overusing Ricky in the first half. Yeah that was easily Henning's worst performance of the year.

"Disgustipate wrote:

I've never seen a single complaint ever about any of our successful runningback passes, which overwhelmingly come in the same situation. Even after the meltdown when Cam Cameron called one in 2007. If it works, it's brilliant, if it doesn't it's so incredibly stupid, never anywhere inbetween.

Im normally not a second guesser but you gotta understand what was happening in the game to truly grasp how dumb a call that was. The Bills didnt even come to play that day, they were ready to lay down and take the loss IMO. We smashed thier KO return man @ the 15, blew up thier O line 3 straight downs and forced a punt. Then we ran the ball down thier throats all the way to the one, and on FIRST and goal we try a WC pass with Ricky. They hadnt stopped a run play the whole drive, there was no need to get cute, especially w/ Ricky who's not a good ball handler, and is even worse as a passer. Bad call, bad execution. Gave Buffalo a lift, left them in the game and the rest is history.

"Disgustipate wrote:

I've never seen a single complaint ever about any of our successful runningback passes, which overwhelmingly come in the same situation. Even after the meltdown when Cam Cameron called one in 2007. If it works, it's brilliant, if it doesn't it's so incredibly stupid, never anywhere inbetween.

Then you weren't paying attention because I had a fit after the Cam Cameron half back pass in 2007 as well.

And if it works, it's not brilliant. We just don't realize how stupid it was because it worked in spite of itself. You can try all you want to justify it, but there's simply no defense for calling a half back pass when you're gaining 5 yards a carry, have the ball first and goal, and are running against a patchwork front 7.

"mustang20241 wrote:

I hate not having 5 WR's active on gameday. When we do run a 5 WR set usually its Fasano, Haynos (or Polite) out there with Cam, Hartline, Bess (or Ginn).. And the screen pass, dont even get me started. Now that we have Marshall we are going to need to feed him. I'm sure our offense will look some what different this year. We need to spread the field. I'm fine with running a 2 TE set if we are running and calling Play action out of it but the fact that Haynos is far from a threat makes the 2 TE set worth less (not worthless).

Im not a fan of the 2TE set unless its the Big Set with 2TE, 2RB, 1WR. The tradiitonal Ace (2TE/2WR/1RB) takes Polite out of the game and he's arguably our best run blocker besides 77.

"MonstBlitz wrote:

Then you weren't paying attention because I had a fit after the Cam Cameron half back pass in 2007 as well.

And if it works, it's not brilliant. We just don't realize how stupid it was because it worked in spite of itself. You can try all you want to justify it, but there's simply no defense for calling a half back pass when you're gaining 5 yards a carry, have the ball first and goal, and are running against a patchwork front 7.

Near the goalline might actually be the best place to call a halfback pass. Just saying.

There's absolutely NO problem with the call in just about any situation. It's hit or miss, and you're going to miss sometimes. We played 60 minutes of football that day, and to say we lost because of that call is stupid. There were a lot of other calls made correctly that game, but you're never going to be perfect. You take chances, and sometimes you succeed....but other times you fail.

"Alex44 wrote:

Near the goalline might actually be the best place to call a halfback pass. Just saying.

There's absolutely NO problem with the call in just about any situation. It's hit or miss, and you're going to miss sometimes. We played 60 minutes of football that day, and to say we lost because of that call is stupid. There were a lot of other calls made correctly that game, but you're never going to be perfect. You take chances, and sometimes you succeed....but other times you fail.

Have any facts to back those comments up? The goal line is NOT a good place to try it. Not when the percentages are much higher that you can carry it in with much less risk. Less risk, higher percentage of success > more risk, less chance of success. Simple math.

A perfect example of a good place to try it was the New England game. Over 10 yards out. Completing the pass gives you a likely score, while running it is unlikely to get you into the end zone.

As to your other point. Were you at the game? Because I was. The fans were deflated and completely out of the game up until that interception. When the interception happened the stadium roared to life. The Bills had the fan support back and fed off of it. We score 7 there, we win the game, IMHO.

"MonstBlitz wrote:

Have any facts to back those comments up? The goal line is NOT a good place to try it. Not when the percentages are much higher that you can carry it in with much less risk. Less risk, higher percentage of success > more risk, less chance of success. Simple math.

A perfect example of a good place to try it was the New England game. Over 10 yards out. Completing the pass gives you a likely score, while running it is unlikely to get you into the end zone.

As to your other point. Were you at the game? Because I was. The fans were deflated and completely out of the game up until that interception. When the interception happened the stadium roared to life. The Bills had the fan support back and fed off of it. We score 7 there, we win the game, IMHO.

Honestly while fan support is great, at the end of the day it's about players making plays.

The fans were deflated when we played the Patriots at home (I was at that game) completely out of it. We still came back and won, and while it was great to be there, us getting into the game had nothing to do with it. Don't over estimate your importance as a fan.

It's a better place than in the open field to try it because the defense is more likely to crash down on the run. You have no clue what gave the better chance, because it never happened. You can say -if- we scored, yet at the same time there is absolutely NO guarantee that we would have regardless. Except possibly a field goal.

Back to the point of players making plays. The play call didn't make Williams throw an interception. He has to know he has the option to tuck and run or throw the ball away. If he doesn't, that is on HIM and him alone. Not the call itself.

There is nothing "dangerous" about a HB Pass. It's much less dangerous (IMO) than let's say a reverse. The halfback just needs to know his options.

That play calling for RW to pass was the very definition of "getting too cute"...... it was just uncalled for at the time. An obvious poor decision.

I'm not so sure Henning is an elite play caller but we could deff do a lot worse.

He's got more to work with this year so he should be able to shine...

"MonstBlitz wrote:

Have any facts to back those comments up? The goal line is NOT a good place to try it. Not when the percentages are much higher that you can carry it in with much less risk. Less risk, higher percentage of success > more risk, less chance of success. Simple math.

A perfect example of a good place to try it was the New England game. Over 10 yards out. Completing the pass gives you a likely score, while running it is unlikely to get you into the end zone.

As to your other point. Were you at the game? Because I was. The fans were deflated and completely out of the game up until that interception. When the interception happened the stadium roared to life. The Bills had the fan support back and fed off of it. We score 7 there, we win the game, IMHO.

It was one of the worst play calls of the season... Remember, we absolutely ran the ball DOWN THEIR THROATS that drive, and ended it the way we did, in pure Henning fashion..

Hey.. were passing the ball down the field awesomely.. Let put in Pat White, cease all momentum, and tell Henne to make up the lost yardage on 2nd and 16 that Pat lost for us. Yeah baby!

Ill keep this short. No.

"dolpns13 wrote:

right.. Why would something that doesnt work be considered good? If its good it works, if its bad it doesnt, in all situations. If someone gets an F on their history test, does that mean they are good at history because they got an A on their math test.

I'm not asking it be considered "good". You can have reasonable play calling that falls, and people aren't willing to put much effort into going beyond that.

Goal line is typically where these things are called, because of how hard a team has to react to the run in short yardage there. Ricky Williams was the one who made the poor decision to throw it instead of throwing it away or running.

"GMJohnson wrote:

Im normally not a second guesser but you gotta understand what was happening in the game to truly grasp how dumb a call that was. The Bills didnt even come to play that day, they were ready to lay down and take the loss IMO. We smashed thier KO return man @ the 15, blew up thier O line 3 straight downs and forced a punt. Then we ran the ball down thier throats all the way to the one, and on FIRST and goal we try a WC pass with Ricky. They hadnt stopped a run play the whole drive, there was no need to get cute, especially w/ Ricky who's not a good ball handler, and is even worse as a passer. Bad call, bad execution. Gave Buffalo a lift, left them in the game and the rest is history.

They ran the ball vs. the Bills base 4-3 defense. The goal line is sort of a different situation, it's more about having a key breaker or getting the initial burst off the ball or any number of things. Not to mention the Bills started stopping the run during that game with adjustments.

Further, if the Bills are so hellbent on stopping the run, that would make them more likely to cheat against it to get burned for the throw.