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Is Henning the right OC??

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Bofin, Apr 15, 2010.

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  1. Bofin

    Bofin Member

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    Just thought i'd try to get some insight on how our offense will operate next season and if ya'll think our current OC is the right man to utilize our people best. I think Henning has done a nice job getting our best players on the field and getting the ball in their hands,,, ie.. wildcat.
    Will he run some more 4 receiver sets? still go with a lot of 2 TE formations? Will the wildcat still be an important piece? What about Pat White's role,,,, traded? I know a lot still depends on the draft and possible veteran pick-ups but its really intriguing and i know there are some knowledgeable folks on the forum with some interesting ideas. i am really excited by the Marshal pick-up and think we can really be explosive with the right game plan. What do ya'll think???
     
  2. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    I just don't know. If I'm being completely honest with everyone, I'm still not over the Ricky Williams pass in Buffalo. I like a lot of what Henning has done for our offense. But the fact that he could suffer such an epic brainfart in such an important game for our playoff chances worries me.
     
  3. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Dan Henning is a good OC, we've just got alot of people who like to ***** and backseat coordinator without considering the reality of the offense last year. For every bit of shrieking about how they got too cute or something like that there was multiple "cute" plays that were successful no one said **** about or was positive over.

    ckparrothead did a formation review and he found that those aren't commonly used, especially in regards to what the Dolphins used and faced last year. It's more like you go three wide with a split TE or something like that.

    This, probably. Dan Henning helped invent the 2-TE set as a base offense, Tony Sparano and Tony Parcells made it the base formation in Dallas their last year, to the point where they drafted Fasano in the 2nd.
     
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  4. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I've never seen a single complaint ever about any of our successful runningback passes, which overwhelmingly come in the same situation. Even after the meltdown when Cam Cameron called one in 2007. If it works, it's brilliant, if it doesn't it's so incredibly stupid, never anywhere inbetween.
     
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  5. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    I'm not sure what types of sets he'll run, it largely depends on who is still here and how some guys (namely Turner) develop. That said, remember the Panthers of a few years ago when Steve Smith first burst onto the scene ?? Henning did ok with him.... Remember (if you're old enough) what Henning did with Joe Gibbs offenses during his first tenure with the Skins... He's capable and likely to devise all kinds of sets as long as our run game is consistent enough. Also, remember that Henning was also very involved in integrating the WC into our offense....He's been accused of being too conservative at times, but he's also been very innovative by adjusting to his personnel, while sticking to 'his' scheme and MO. I don't worry that Henning won't utilize his weapons, I worry more that the OL will be solid, that the RBs will be healthy, etc....

    As for White, I'm not too sure. This regime has been quick to eradicate themselves of mistakes, however a 2nd round pick, after only one year is pretty tough to give up on. Where does he fit ?? I'm not sure. I didn't follow him too much in college, and he certainly didn't show jack last year with us....good, bad or indifferent. What do we really have to base any decision on with White ?? We don't...they may have more to go on with how he practices to improve, how he meshes with the team, etc, but what do we really know about White other than he didn't show much to us last season...
     
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  6. Bofin

    Bofin Member

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    thanks guys, i think henning can do a great job here, and has done an excellent job so far. disgust,,,, i did not know henning was one of the 2 TE formation innovators, really hope we can pick up a TE that can threaten the seam and do some things vertically, maybe kory sperry is already that guy.
     
  7. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    This:up:
     
  8. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    It was moreso Ricky throwing the ball than it was the call...Ronnie had showed he could do it...when was the last time Ricky had thrown a pass?. Of course, from the two it was a questionable call, completed or not.
     
  9. Vaark

    Vaark Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium

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    Henning should have some more options this season with Marshall in the lineup, especially with Cobbs coming out of the backfield and hopefully Fasano or his replacement cured of the dropsies (Remember how effective Martin was).

    Barring the unexpected, IMO, this season, with Henning having a reasonable tool box on which to draw, will provide a realistic litmus test as to whether his play-calling is contemporary or if he's in effect a dinosaur.
     
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  10. Onehondo

    Onehondo Senior Member Club Member

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    Marshall provides Henning a new weapon and a way to open up and spread the defense. I don't think you will have as many DBs playing as close to the line of scrimage as they have been, especially if Ginn finally gets it.
    I can't wait to see our offense in action with everyone healthy.
     
  11. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    He's gonna have to put forward his best efforts in order to screw this one up.

    If at any time he has BM throwing to CH out of the Wildcat, we'll know for sure...
     
  12. mustang20241

    mustang20241 New Member

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    I hate not having 5 WR's active on gameday. When we do run a 5 WR set usually its Fasano, Haynos (or Polite) out there with Cam, Hartline, Bess (or Ginn).. And the screen pass, dont even get me started. Now that we have Marshall we are going to need to feed him. I'm sure our offense will look some what different this year. We need to spread the field. I'm fine with running a 2 TE set if we are running and calling Play action out of it but the fact that Haynos is far from a threat makes the 2 TE set worth less (not worthless).
     
  13. dolpns13

    dolpns13 Chest Rockwell is my hero

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    right.. Why would something that doesnt work be considered good? If its good it works, if its bad it doesnt, in all situations. If someone gets an F on their history test, does that mean they are good at history because they got an A on their math test.
     
  14. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    The reverse to Ted Ginn, the screen to Lousaka Polite. Overusing Ricky in the first half. Yeah that was easily Henning's worst performance of the year.
     
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  15. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Im normally not a second guesser but you gotta understand what was happening in the game to truly grasp how dumb a call that was. The Bills didnt even come to play that day, they were ready to lay down and take the loss IMO. We smashed thier KO return man @ the 15, blew up thier O line 3 straight downs and forced a punt. Then we ran the ball down thier throats all the way to the one, and on FIRST and goal we try a WC pass with Ricky. They hadnt stopped a run play the whole drive, there was no need to get cute, especially w/ Ricky who's not a good ball handler, and is even worse as a passer. Bad call, bad execution. Gave Buffalo a lift, left them in the game and the rest is history.
     
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  16. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Then you weren't paying attention because I had a fit after the Cam Cameron half back pass in 2007 as well.

    And if it works, it's not brilliant. We just don't realize how stupid it was because it worked in spite of itself. You can try all you want to justify it, but there's simply no defense for calling a half back pass when you're gaining 5 yards a carry, have the ball first and goal, and are running against a patchwork front 7.
     
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  17. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Im not a fan of the 2TE set unless its the Big Set with 2TE, 2RB, 1WR. The tradiitonal Ace (2TE/2WR/1RB) takes Polite out of the game and he's arguably our best run blocker besides 77.
     
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  18. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Near the goalline might actually be the best place to call a halfback pass. Just saying.

    There's absolutely NO problem with the call in just about any situation. It's hit or miss, and you're going to miss sometimes. We played 60 minutes of football that day, and to say we lost because of that call is stupid. There were a lot of other calls made correctly that game, but you're never going to be perfect. You take chances, and sometimes you succeed....but other times you fail.
     
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  19. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Have any facts to back those comments up? The goal line is NOT a good place to try it. Not when the percentages are much higher that you can carry it in with much less risk. Less risk, higher percentage of success > more risk, less chance of success. Simple math.

    A perfect example of a good place to try it was the New England game. Over 10 yards out. Completing the pass gives you a likely score, while running it is unlikely to get you into the end zone.

    As to your other point. Were you at the game? Because I was. The fans were deflated and completely out of the game up until that interception. When the interception happened the stadium roared to life. The Bills had the fan support back and fed off of it. We score 7 there, we win the game, IMHO.
     
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  20. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Honestly while fan support is great, at the end of the day it's about players making plays.

    The fans were deflated when we played the Patriots at home (I was at that game) completely out of it. We still came back and won, and while it was great to be there, us getting into the game had nothing to do with it. Don't over estimate your importance as a fan.

    It's a better place than in the open field to try it because the defense is more likely to crash down on the run. You have no clue what gave the better chance, because it never happened. You can say -if- we scored, yet at the same time there is absolutely NO guarantee that we would have regardless. Except possibly a field goal.

    Back to the point of players making plays. The play call didn't make Williams throw an interception. He has to know he has the option to tuck and run or throw the ball away. If he doesn't, that is on HIM and him alone. Not the call itself.

    There is nothing "dangerous" about a HB Pass. It's much less dangerous (IMO) than let's say a reverse. The halfback just needs to know his options.
     
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  21. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    That play calling for RW to pass was the very definition of "getting too cute"...... it was just uncalled for at the time. An obvious poor decision.

    I'm not so sure Henning is an elite play caller but we could deff do a lot worse.

    He's got more to work with this year so he should be able to shine...
     
  22. dolpns13

    dolpns13 Chest Rockwell is my hero

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    It was one of the worst play calls of the season... Remember, we absolutely ran the ball DOWN THEIR THROATS that drive, and ended it the way we did, in pure Henning fashion..

    Hey.. were passing the ball down the field awesomely.. Let put in Pat White, cease all momentum, and tell Henne to make up the lost yardage on 2nd and 16 that Pat lost for us. Yeah baby!
     
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  23. FinsAreLife

    FinsAreLife Well-Known Member

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    Ill keep this short. No.
     
  24. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not asking it be considered "good". You can have reasonable play calling that falls, and people aren't willing to put much effort into going beyond that.

    Goal line is typically where these things are called, because of how hard a team has to react to the run in short yardage there. Ricky Williams was the one who made the poor decision to throw it instead of throwing it away or running.
     
  25. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    They ran the ball vs. the Bills base 4-3 defense. The goal line is sort of a different situation, it's more about having a key breaker or getting the initial burst off the ball or any number of things. Not to mention the Bills started stopping the run during that game with adjustments.

    Further, if the Bills are so hellbent on stopping the run, that would make them more likely to cheat against it to get burned for the throw.
     
  26. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's not what I'm saying.

    Cam Cameron called a pass that didn't work in '07, and there was a huge fallout. Cam Cameron is an idiot, moron, etc., what kind of jackass calls that, etc. and so on.

    In the meantime, Dan Henning calls how many runningback passes between then and the Ricky Williams interception? Virtually all of them are in the exact circumstances you describe- In the Red zone or otherwise in short yardage, with the team driving down the field primary due to the running game. That's when a halfback pass is generally called. It's overwhelmingly when we've done it, it's when the rest of the league does it. You need the threat of the run to draw the defenders up, and short yardage helps that.

    No one said **** about any of those situations. It's backseat coordinating of the worst order.
     
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  27. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    I can say with confidence you have a better chance of scoring with a running back running the ball than throwing the ball. Especially against a banged up Buffalo front 7. I believe they gave up an average of close to 5 yards a carry that game. You're going to tell me we stood a better chance of Ricky completing a pass than running at that line 3 times?

    As a coordinator, Henning never should have called a play where Ricky had the option. It's asking too much of a player who hasn't thrown many balls in his career.

    If you can't acknowledge the risk involved in having a RUNNING BACK throw passes against NFL defenses, then there's no point in debating this any further.
     
  28. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    Come on now Henning blew that call. You can't blame Williams for carrying out what the OC dialed up.
    Henning does it once in a while and it drives me nuts
    Apparently you don't like the "cute" reference but that is what it was. He gets too confident and fuzzes out.
     
  29. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Can you give me a specific instance where we ever ran a half back pass with less than 10 yards to get in the end zone? Besides the Ricky fiasco in Buffalo. Honest question, because maybe it did happen and I don't remember.

    When you're in short yardage situations against a weak run defense, running the ball is always going to be the higher percentage play and carries less risk. Especially with a running back who hasn't thrown the ball like a Ronnie Brown or Ladanian Tomlinson has over his career.

    And don't forget we had the ball 1st and goal. If it were 3rd and goal and we had been stuffed twice already, maybe, just maybe I could see your point.

    When you throw a halfback pass on the goal line you are not only risking a turnover, but you are risking/sacrificing points that are almost guaranteed, and IMHO, you NEVER do that as an offensive coordinator.
     
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  30. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The play isn't Ricky throws the ball in under any circumstances. He had to make a read, and he had the choice to keep it, throw it to his probable singular read, or throw it away. Ricky has in the past two years had more than one halfback option he pulled down. He could be reasonably expected to have made the right decision based on coaching.
     
  31. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I'm having nightmares about Henning using Marshall on reverses every game this year.

    Well, on a serious note what has my attention is Henning's focus on running the ball, BMarsh was the target in Denver, which to me means BM won't see the 150 targets a year he saw in Denver (ballpark number), can BM deal with lesser stats?

    Would Henning flip the script and throw the ball more as a strategy?

    I think he could, but in Carolina it was pretty much what we have seen in Miami, pound the ball, hit Steve Smith deep.
     
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  32. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Off the top of my head, 1st Patriots game this year. There are more I am not in a position to look up.

    The real key of whether or not it should be performed we aren't really privy to. The dozen or so gametime passes Brown has attempted are irrelevent compared to the hundreds in practice.
     
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  33. bluehaze

    bluehaze New Member

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    Don't think Henning deserves to be tarred and feathered just yet... The guy tried to get the most out of what he had, sometimes it worked sometimes it didn't but it's not neccesarily his fault. The old saying you can't polish a turd comes to mind. He can only do so much with the players we had. Also having Henne switch to a whole new system after he is just getting accustomed to Hennings system would be a step back in his development. It's just counter productive to switch OC at this point. Not to mention I really don't think their is anyone significantly better to replace him with right now.
     
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  34. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    I think our offense is probably better off with Henning than without him at this point. But mark my words: There will be at least one AWFUL play call next season that will have this entire board up in arms. Let's just hope it doesn't cost us a game.
     
  35. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    When Henning more or less pioneered the 2 TE formations with the Skins, it was more like one on the line Y, and an H-Back. The "H" in H-Back stands for Henning because he created or perfected it. Don Warren used to play that role a lot and would come in motion right to left, and wham LT when they played the Giants. One reason the idea of the H-Back was come up with was to help control LT. I seem to recall Clint Didier may have been another TE for the Skins who earned his living as mainly an H-Back.

    Henning is also the kind of OC who adapts well, his play calling and formations, to the talent he has to work with. The Skins back then ran 3 wide consistently and guys like Jay Schroeder and Doug Williams were mad bombers as passers. Hammer the D with the Counter Trey, then go deep to one of "The Posse."
     
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  36. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Henne..or Henning?

    Senior moment compadre?

    Interesting thing, back then it was Art Monk, Gary Sanders and Clark, 1 Big and two smaller, quicker wr's.
     
  37. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Seems like in the Pats game this past season, Ronnie rolled left and hit Haynos in the end zone. The LOS was like the 2 or the 1 at the time.
     
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  38. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    HENNING! Duh :headwall: Yeah, thanks, senior momentitis Dan Henning of course is who the H-Back was named after. I will edit.

    Re the WRs, as I recall, Monk was the #1 the X. He was the go to guy, move the chains type, though certainly not limited to that. Sanders especially, and Clark were the burners who pressed the D deep. I know what you are thinking, ;), BM could be our Monk and Ginn could be like our Sanders. :thumbup:
     
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  39. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Polite did a great job but he needs his snaps cut. He had 621 snaps, which is way too much for a guy who can't really contribute as a receiver.
     
  40. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Henning was not averse to having a pass more than run offense all the time in Washington. In '88 for example they attempted 592 passes and ran 437 times.
    I'd say without cross referencing because I feel lazy at the moment, but 592 pass attempts is a high number for a 16 game season. Yes?

    IMO, in Carolina, Fox may have reined him in a little. Then again, while Steve Smith is a great player, their overall weaponry on offense didn't match Henning's Skins offenses IMO.
     

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