Is Philbin to "Old White Business Man" for today's NFL Players? AKA Will they buy in?

You don't have to be demonstrative in order to be a good coach.

 

Cam Cameron did this passive aggressive ****.

 

I never really understood the Cam Cameron comparisons that some make with Joe Philbin.

 

The best possible response to the OP.

 

More seriously, what these players "buy in" to IMO is the perception that their coaching staff is intelligent, knowledgeable, and hard-working enough to put them in position to win. That ranges all the way from the schemes they employ on offense and defense, to the adjustments and play calls they make during games.

The head coach's demeanor and personality and "in your face" capability aren't even important IMO. The effects that are usually attributed to that sort of thing are in reality generated by leaders among the players IMO.

 

Sparano was an in your face kinda guy. I think many people put too much emphasis on how bombastic a coach should be. Tony Dungy and Lovie Smith are about as laid back as it gets, and they're both rather successful.

 

A coach is judged by performance not style.

 

This. Players - especially veterans - could care less about the coach's demeanor; they care about winning and reaching their incentives and being in a dandy position for the next contract negotiations. The challenge Philbin is facing is to convince his locker room that they're not rebuilding. You could already witness some dissent after the Johnson cut (as the players new darn well that he was by far the best WR on the team), and you'll probably see some more after the Vontae trade.

 

When I was in the same room with Sparano last year, I was amazed at how subtly confrontational he was. It like the guy was just waiting for you to challenge him so he could smack you down. And this was for Web Weekend....

He seemed like the kind of guy that didnt think he needed to explain himself you. It was both impressive and well, stupid.

Philbin takes a different approach, more diplomatic and more willing to give you a reason. I don't that makes him a pushover. It seems pretty clear to me that he will not tolerate someone that is being a problem. He is easy going, but he has a dead seriousness to him. Reminds me of my boss.

 

I think the way you handle that is by giving contract extensions to the guys who deserve it and whom you want to keep around through the rebuilding effort. Reggie Bush for example.

I think it's very important that they do that in the near future. Get the veterans you want to keep around on board and in it for the long haul. Then many of the other guys may play hard and get on board with the rebuilding effort if it means getting themselves a long-term contract.

 

And all of that also distinguishes him from Cam Cameron, who was a cream puff.

 

Then expect some dissent, because I can't see Reggie Bush on this team in 2013.

 

I think you'll see him extended after a few good games he has this year.

 

Not going to be an easy feat with hardly any cap space. Sure, we'll probably clear money by cutting Garrard and some additional vets, but I'm having a hard time seeing that we're in financial shape to extend one vet, let alone two (Jake Long, anyone).

 

This thread ended with the 2nd post.

 

I am tired of the Bellichick comparisons. None of you must have seen the America's game with BB. He is a sleeping pill with the media. He is witty, outgoing, and demonstrative with players and coaches. The one game, he told Derrick Mason to shut up, and he was going to kick his ***. Stop it with the BB. Philbin resembles BB's presser's and thats not good. But not BB.

And Im not anti-philbin, im holding out hope for him.

 

I get what you are saying, although I think the "Old White Business Man" reference in the title is unfortunate because I don't think that it is an age issue, or a race issue, or a demonstrativeness issue. I am not impressed by Philbin from what I have seen on Hard Knocks and in press conferences. That doesn't mean he can't or won't be a good coach -- it is just my personal impression. Obviously, we just see snippets of things that Hard Knocks shows and ity may not be the whole picture, but the picture that I see is that he may be the kind of detail oriented person who can't see the forest for the trees. The repeated scenes of his pointing out uniform issues, untied shoes and picking up trash don't give me the sense that he is focused on what is important. That he has these meetings with players and doesn't look them in the eye and is mealy-mouthed is bothersome too. That is not an age thing or a race thing -- it is hard to respect someone, especially one's boss, if they don't look you in the eye and talk straight. Similarly, I found it curious that Philbin didn't speak to Moore tor Tannehill about the starting QB decision until after they had both spoken to Taylor and Sherman. That was arguably the most important decision of the season and the head coach was no better than the 3rd person who those players heard about it from. And when he did talk to them, he offered little in terms of encouragement, guidance or motivation. I don't see the Belichick comparisons being offered here as on point at all. I see no similarities in the personalities of Belichick and Philbin. Of course, I don't know either one personally, but I don't think anyone else here does either.

Just my opinion and I hope I am wrong about him.

 

Hopefully you are wrong, because if this is true, the season will go sideways in a hurry.
If this team gets off to slow start (0-5 or 1-4) which is very possible, if there is no respect for Philbin or they see him as you've described.....we'll have the 1st overall pick in April.

 

You mean the players knew darn well that CJ was the savvy vet among the WRs, not necessarily the best WR on the roster?? At least his performance in both minicamps, TC and the one PS game didn't show that he was any better physically at this point than Nanee, Wallace or Moore. Dumping CJ for getting into trouble with the law, combined with his lack-luster performances isn't about rebuilding or not...that likely would have happened if he was the #1 WR or the #7 WR on the roster...

As to moving VD, I think the veterans will look at it more as 'business' in the NFL rather than a distraction. However, the producers of the show would like it to be portrayed as an issue to boost ratings....

 

You mean the team leaders were genuinely worried about poor ole Chad when he got cut? And yes, his performance in TC clearly established him as the #1 WR on this team by literally every account out there, one drop notwithstanding.

And no, the vets won't look at the Vontae trade as a distraction. They'll look at it as a move that made the team worse. As fans, we have the luxury of daydreaming about the possible net returns on the compensation in 2013 and beyond. Reggie Bush is playing for hard cash right now.

 

Sam Madison Reacts to Vontae Davis Trade

http://www.thephins.com/forums/show...oday-s-NFL-Players-AKA-Will-they-buy-in/page2
What does Madison know about Miami?

 

I'm not too concerned with Philbin's approach as far as personality and interactions. If you don't win, it's a problem. If you do win, it's not. People would swear all the time that the Giants were on the verge of revolt against Tom Coughlin who also is too old, too white, too out of touch, etc. Then they win Super Bowls.

 

All we've seen of Philbin is the persona he puts on in front of cameras. How do we know that he's not "witty, outgoing, and demonstrative" with his players and staff?

Besides...this post is total BS. The players better buy in if they want their money and a job. If my boss were John Belushi or Janet Reno, I could care less, as long as they were fair and competent. If Philbin is exactly the way he is portrayed on HC, but he shows the players that he knows his ****, they will buy into it.

 

Exactly!

 

Yes Philbin is all of those things, that's why we need a young, urban guy who appeals to the youth of today by creating a relaxed atmosphere, like Tom Coughlin.

 

True, but kinda a chicken and egg thing though. The question is whether the coach's personality and demeanor makes it harder for the team to win. In Coughlin's case it obviously didn't. And he had been a successful NFL coach for many years, so there was a proven track record showing that he could be a solid head coach. Philbin doesn't have that. And like Belichick, I don't really see the parallels in personality and demeanor between Coughlin and Philbin. In my eyes, Coughlin comes across as something of a drill sergeant. Aggressively confrontational. That can certainly wear on people and players, but it is very different from what I see in Philbin. In Philbin I see much more of a passive aggressiveness. He is plainly uncomfortable in face-to-face confrontations. To me he comes off more as a passive aggressive "bean counter."

 

was wondering how long it would take
before the anti-Philbin movement would begin.
got my answer in today's readings.

hubris!

it will take at least four,
maybe five season games to establish the team

1) new coaches
2) new systems
3) rookie QB

if this is not a rebuilding project
then it is a major remodeling one

patience!

 

I don't get why this is an issue with people. These are grown men and the fact that they need to be told to tie their shoes, wear their uniforms properly, keep their locker room clean and not dump trash all over their practice field is mind blowing. Also it's quite possible that that stuff doesn't happen that often and it was just an HBO overplayed thing.

 

if dolphins players did what giants players do they would get traded or cut you can't compare the 2

 

"Is Philbin to "Old White Business Man" for today's NFL Players? AKA Will they buy in?"
is this an intentional racially loaded comment with all its ugly & inaccurate implications?
most disappointing on every level... you'll get to vote in November, leave the NFL out of it.

most unfortunate

 

in a game where there is relative parity throughout the sport,
ATTENTION TO DETAIL
is important, so is speed, discipline & being on the right page.

for lack of a nail, a shoe was lost
for lack of a shoe, a horse was lost
for lack of a horse, a battle was lost
for lack of a battle, a war was lost

to criticize a coach for paying attention to detail & imposing discipline in an impersonal, dispassionate way in inane

 

This......trade him then....

 

ugh.....go back to bed....

 

I can't see Jeff Ireland giving Reggie Bush a big payday with not one but TWO fairly high draft picks (Thomas, Miller) waiting in the wings. Miller in particular has been referred to as a first round pick who's a year early.

 

I think that is his best trait. I can see football players wanting to play for that guy. He's not going to get in your face and scream at you when you mess up, or when he's ticked off at you. Instead, he's going to come at you with respect that all people deserve to be treated with. You're going to get told assertively what you've done wrong, and that you need to do better, but its going to be done respectfully. I think that approach will likely go a long way with NFL players. Afterall, these are millionaires now, who play a childs game, who may have had troubled upbringings, but in most cases because of their athletic abilities have been given an awful lot in life, and alot of them probably think they should be given much more, and not be subject to yelling and humiliation from a coach. Philbins respectful, but stern approach is a good way to go. The player gets the message, and respected all at the same time.