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Is Ryan Tannehill the long term solution at QB?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Chuck Wilson, Nov 1, 2015.

Is Ryan Tannehill the long term answer at QB for us?

  1. Yes

    44 vote(s)
    40.7%
  2. No

    39 vote(s)
    36.1%
  3. Not quite sure, need to see more

    25 vote(s)
    23.1%
  1. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Wait...how is it possible that the QB played meh and the team got to the playoffs? Where does Tannehill get this magic bean?
     
    resnor likes this.
  2. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Please attempt to follow, I know it's hard, since you guys use so many different arguments, and change them at the drop of a hat.

    Argument: QB is the player who influences wins the most. Tannehill is mediocre at best, because we've had a consistently average team, and he has a losing record.

    Answer: Sanchez had a winning record, and went all the way to AFCCG.

    Now, this creates a problem. We all know Sanchez was not the driving force behind winning all those games to get into the playoffs. But how can this be??? So, is it NOT the QB being responsible for wins/losses?

    I accused you of moving goalposts, because, when it comes to Sanchez, you are claiming that the defense carried him, but with Tannehill, it's all on him. Further, instead of looking at regular season, where Sanchez was terrible, you want to focus on playoffs, and act like he was somehow good.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  3. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Does this factor in the teams of QBs? Or is it purely QBs and wins? How many great QBs with great records were on teams that were average or below average in all other areas. Looking purely at wins, and saying, SEE? ALL great QBs has winning records!" All while ignoring the total team.
     
  4. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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  5. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Them: W/L record is the QB's responsibility!!!!!!
    Us: What about Sanchez?
    Them: That doesn't count! It was defense!
    Us: Ok, what about Eli Manning?
    Them: That doesn't count! It was defense!
    Us: Ok, what about Trent Dilfer?
    Them: That doesn't count! It was defense!
    Us: Ok what about Brad Johnson?
    Them: That doesn't count! It was defense!
    Us: Ok, what about Marino having off years and not winning a lot in the playoffs?
    Them: That doesn't count! He didn't have a defense!
    Us: Ok, so what about when the defense loses the game while Tannehill is on the bench?
    Them: That doesn't count! QBs win games, not the defense.
     
  6. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Sanchez is a career 74 rated passer, with just decimals more than a 1:1 td/into ratio.

    Definition of average/below average.
     
  7. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    2 AFCCGs, means he's great!!!!!!!
     
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  8. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Dude, it's insane! And the most crazy part is, we've been saying the exact same things for three seasons, while they twist about, changing their arguments, and then accuse us of deflecting and ignoring.
     
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  9. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    bert jones, bernie kosar, greg cook
     
  10. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Both of their TEAMS had winning records.

    I'm going to start attributing wins to the center. He handles the ball on every play.
     
  11. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    You mean that guy's link? He looks at ANY/A of the opponent, so in that sense he factors in strength of competition, but no he doesn't seem to include stats from other units. Of course the two links I gave are just QB wins and passer rating. As to your question about how many QB's with great records were on teams that were below average in other areas, I don't know the answer but it's a good question.
     
  12. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    Sanchez being a winning QB doesn't disprove what we are saying. There are plenty of examples of winning QBs that may or may not be elite. Show me examples of elite QBs that have losing records over a 64 game sample.

    Fact: elite poker players are going to win money over a large enough sample.

    Showing an example of what you think is a bad a poker player winning money does not disprove the above fact.
     
    Chuck Wilson likes this.
  13. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    was terry bradshaw elite. he has four rings. or troy aikman?
     
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  14. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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  15. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Excuse me? I wasn't comparing careers. I was making a point that good QB play doesn't always equal winning seasons with their teams.

    If you want to get snippy, make sure you understand my point first.
     
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  16. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    You. Don't. Get. It.
     
  17. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    107-51

    94-71

    The records and the rings would indicate they were elite.
     
  18. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    86-84
     
  19. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    you said over a 64 game span. from 73-79 his record was 33-39-1
     
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  20. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah, Aikman didn't have an awesome offensive line or anything, didn't have great receivers, or a HoF running back. His defense was bad, too.

    Maybe Aikman is a bad example.
     
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  21. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    so a 50% passer who threw as many TDs as INTs is considered elite. What about Steve Bartkowski? or Bob Griese?
     
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  22. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    and bradshaw too 50% completions almost a 1 for 1 TD to int ratio lol. No one who saw those guys play considered them elite. They were simply the luckiest QBs of their generations to be put on such good teams

    but alas, i'm forgetting....they had that "it" factor. they could carry the teams on their back through steel grit, fire and determination
     
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  23. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    what happened? cant you tell me if these guys were great simply by looking at your little numbers
     
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  24. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Now we got people telling us none of that happened or is happening and no one thinks W/L is a QB stat and then those same people turn around and say W/L is the most important QB stat.
     
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  25. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    You're also forgetting, wins mean it was all QB. There was nothing else of merit. A good winning record means the QB elevated everyone else on the team. It can't mean that *GASP* teams put good players around other good players to build a dynasty.
     
  26. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    What about great coaches? Do they just luck up into great QBs? Is there such a thing as a great coach since W/L is a QB stat?

    Is Shula over rated, since he had Griese and Marino?
     
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  27. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    I don't need a stat book or an average W/L record to tell me we have a QB in Miami who has been very average himself. I don't need to compare him to Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Eli Manning, Mark Sanchez or Alex Smith to know he has been an average QB...

    All I need to do is keep tuning in on Sunday's and see which Ryan Tannehill shows up, because not a damn one of us has any clue the answer to that. It's 50/50.

    Having an upper tier QB normally equals more wins, not always..but normally. Too many variables to consider it anything other than a general statement.

    I ask ask why is it even important? We don't have a team that can elevate our QB, nor do we have a QB who can elevate our team. The Miami Dolphins and their QB are flat out AVERAGE.

    Sucks to be us.
     
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  28. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    Its funny how quick you guys are to use one stat that correlates to QB play to discredit another stat that clearly correlates to QB play. QB stats are vastly different from the 70's to today, and ironically the one stat that best transcends eras is the win/loss stat. And even the win/loss stat is not immune to the effect of rule changes which makes top QBs even more of a factor in wins/losses.
     
  29. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    Troy Aikman having a great o-line, RB or defense does not disprove the fact that 99% of elite QBs have winning records.

    Don Shula being an elite coach does not disprove the fact that 99% of elite QBs have winning records.

    Bill Belichick being an elite coach does not disprove the fact that 99% of elite QBs have winning records. I would bet my life on the fact that Tom Brady would have a winning record with or without Bill Belichick.
     
  30. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    its not 50/50. as soon as james went down i said the game was over. that was the third play of the game. as soon as albert was healthy i said the offense would click again
     
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  31. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    You believe Aikman was elite?

    Did Shula forget how to be "elite" late in his career?

    I'd be willing to bet that Tom Brady would have a winning record if he was always surrounded with players that could still win 10 games with Matt Cassell leading them.
     
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  32. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    if i was the devil i would put brady on a philbin lead team and see it play out. by year three philbin would have gotten rid of every player but brady who had talent and then we would see
     
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  33. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    They make these arguments, and then, in the face of evidence that they're wrong, basically say that all these players/coaches are exceptions.

    Strange that there's so many exceptions.

    Oh, and I love made up stats: "99% of elite QBs". Prove it. And prove all these elite QBs with great records didn't have good to great teams around them.
     
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  34. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Lol. Well that settles it, end thread.
     
  35. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    No, the thread was ended when you told us you don't numbers, facts or anything and you just know about QBs, a few posts back. That was riveting in depth analysis no one can argue with.
     
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  36. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    there has been a direct correlation between our offense's production and the health of our pitiful oline. anytime we had three serviceable linemen the offense hummed (except for week 1). anytime that number dropped to two serviceable linemen we tanked. and yet somehow that stat or that fact doesnt compute with you guys. instead we get stats on ypa correlating to wins/losses correlating to elite/avg correlating to to the closeness of proximty from the bunghole to the dingleberries. Occum's Razor
     
  37. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    I was giving you an opinion, I wasn't claiming it to be fact. And if your definition of a "fact" is what you keep claiming?? Then thanks.

    Although if I was on here claiming Ryan was a victim of circumstance and I could clearly SEE that the OL was holding him back?? You would be thanking my posts and kissing my ---.
     
  38. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    you can almsot make the argument that aikman was the worst player on that team lol. that was one of the most stacked teams i have ever seen
     
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  39. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Numbers can be skewed to fit ones agenda, this message board should've taught you guys that much atleast. For every stat site that says X is the best, another will have him bottom tier. It's only a small part of the overall equation.
     
  40. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Eli Manning in 2015:

    17 TD-4 INT-100 PR. 4-4

    Eli Manning in 2014

    30 TD. 14 INT. 92 PR. 6-10

    Big Ben in 2013

    28 TD. 14 INT. 92 PR. 8-8

    Big Ben in 2012

    26 TD. 8 INT. 97 PR. 8-8

    Tony Romo in 2013

    31 TD. 10 INT. 97 PR. 8-8

    Tony Romo in 2011

    31 TD. 10 INT. 102 PR. 8-8

    Matt Ryan in 2014

    28 TD. 14 INT. 94 PR. 6-10

    Drew Brees in 2015

    15 TD. 6 INT. 101 PR. 4-4

    Drew Brees in 2014

    33 TD. 17 INT. 97 PR. 7-9

    Drew Brees in 2012

    43 TD. 19 INT. 96 PR. 7-9

    Along with the Philip Rivers numbers I gave earlier.

    Those are all quarterbacks who you'd consider some of the best in the game who had really good seasons and didn't have a winning record.

    And those are only a few examples over the last handful of years.

    W/L is not a good measurement for individual players.
     
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