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Is the Offensive Line the Biggest Problem with the Lack of Scoring?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Disnardo, Nov 6, 2011.

  1. Disnardo

    Disnardo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I guess it is to me as simple as this... of course I could and probably be proven wrong... won't be the first time...

    Since the Chicago game last year, where the rash of injuries ravaged and changed the OL, this team has had a major problem scoring over 17 points a game...

    They only scored over 17 points last year, twice in the last 7 games of the Season. That was against Oakland and Detroit (about 29% of the last 7 games played), and I would guess to venture those data points were aberrations, specially when you average a combined 15.3 points per game...

    and yet through FA this year and again shuffling of the line by our coaching staff, our OL has not performed well enough or consistant enough to hold nor make blocks when the game was on the line... Same as last year...

    We only scored more than 17 points once this year (against NE), and have not met that same 17 points mark ever since. With a whopping combined average of 15.3 points per game ..

    11 games of incompetence, both from the coaching point as well as the OL's players performance, since last year...

    So IMHO, this is a carry over form last year, and now the total is 3 games out of the last 14 that they scored at least 17 points (about 21%)...

    Can anyone tell me when the Tony had a change of heart and played personnel based on effort over performance??? Talent over execusion???

    My guess it was after he got rid of Sapp and kept Jones...
     
  2. Aquafin

    Aquafin New Member

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    the poor house
    well since Tony was alledgedly a oline coach i will say it is three things .

    no qb and lack of leadership.

    no tightend and our wrs are invisable at times.

    we need to get rid of columbo and Carey and if we do that we will iprove. ( In my opinion.}


    to me it is disgusting we have been having oline trouble for 6 years now so there should be no excuses for this.
     
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  3. bgbdwolf31313

    bgbdwolf31313 Junior Member

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    It's part of the problem. Lot of drops and failure to execute is the other part.
     
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  4. Disnardo

    Disnardo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    When the game is on the line (in the 4th quarter) and the Offense has the ball, what gives you any confidence that the OL will hold its ground???
     
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  5. Trowa

    Trowa A world of pain

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    Right now, the problem is that everything is the problem. When you're 0-7 that means there are a lot of things going wrong.

    The offensive line is to blame for a lack of scoring, yes, in the sense that if they provided better pass protection we would be more proficient at moving the ball and wouldn't give up as many sacks.

    If you're talking about red zone scoring, I place the blame for that on Brandon Marshall's repeated drops and the fact that the TE position hasn't been addressed since 2008.
     
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  6. Disnardo

    Disnardo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Somehow many of us are missing the point that we are 0-10 since December of 09...

    Personnel have changed somewhat, but just a few of the skilled players...

    The last seven games last year and this year we are a combined 2-12...

    What has been the one consistant issue that this team has had since 2008???
     
  7. mommabilly

    mommabilly No riders allowed

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    Many problems, not just Oline concerns but will stick with the Oline.

    Jake is hurt this year. Columbo, need I say more. Carey is at best, serviceable. Not sure if they keep him now or let him walk. But as I said, its only a part of the problems. Most major are, IMO, No QB, no # 1 reliable receiver and our defensive safetys and corners absolutely suk. D line gets zero pass rush and our LBers are now non existent.
     
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  8. Disnardo

    Disnardo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    DL, and LB's don't score points if I remember... Apologize for sounding sarcastic...

    I agree with QB, but Henne was performing well the first half of the Season in 2010, it was after the OL went to h... in a handbasket that the soring went out the window...

    This has to do with scoring points... or not scoring points...
     
  9. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    QB play in the redzone is probably a larger factor. But the OL has been a contributing factor to said poor QB play.
     
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  10. electrolyte

    electrolyte New Member

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    The biggest problem with lack of scoring is the garbage QB's we have had. Henne and now Moore.
     
  11. Disnardo

    Disnardo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well as the original post stated, Henne had no problem scoring more than 17 points the first half of last year...

    The team scored at least 22 points in 5 out of the first 9 games last year (56%)... and have only met that same mark only 3 times in the last 14 games (21%)...

    I am not saying that a better QB would lend the same results... but this team won games last year with Henne and scored points with him too, when the OL was consistantly healthy...

    Seems like the bottom fell out after the Chicago game last year, and has not been the same since...
     
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  12. DevilFin13

    DevilFin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Today was only one game. But I think you see the effect of good oline play. They said during the game that we had given up the most sacks through today. But Moore was barely touched today. Part of the problem before Moore came in was Henne. I maintain he didn't do enough to step up in the pocket and help out the line. But even then, Henne was only part of it. They could still do more so that Henne doesn't have to be part of the problem.
     
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  13. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    The biggest difference are the rush packages. The personnel Miami is facing is base personnel. Other team's best pass rushers (that ridiculous 4 DE Giants package) aren't there. Also Miami's TEs are positioned closer, the blocking is working together, and they have the threat of the run. It's very similar to the 2008 Dolphin offense.
     
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  14. Disnardo

    Disnardo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeap... what a difference a game the OL makes...

    Everything looks better... the run...4.5 YPC... the Pass...10.6 YPA... QBR of 147...and the most important stat...the 31 points...

    All with a QB that is known as "back up material"...
     
  15. Shamboubou

    Shamboubou Well-Known Member

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    The difference between today and all the other games we have lost if you watch the games has been the pressure put on our QB. Moore had time today, offense looked good. No time, offense looks like crap.
     
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  16. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The line isn't that bad. Colombo himself is awful, but other than that it's been pretty mediocre.
     
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  17. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    You're totally right. All the blame falls on our QBs for the offense lacking redzone talent at WR & TE as well as WRs dropping a handful of redzone TDs, and stuff like blocking is overrated anyways. <sarcasm>

    Pull your head out of that thing you forgot to wipe; it's on the entire offense, personnel included. When your only legit redzone target misses 3 or 4 TDs, it's not a good sign. Hopefully Gates and his 40+ inch vertical, Charles Clay, and Daniel Thomas can develop into addition redzone threats.
     
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  18. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Today was the first time I've seen a Dolphin QB execute in the red zone. I really think teams that score out of the spread will struggle in the red zone and that was the case for this team earlier in the year. For his "masterful" performance Moore had 240 yards or so. That's nothing great but TP you have a point. The quality of the targets makes a dramatic difference. Houston works with four to five guys that can sneak up on you deep. The second that Charles Clay gets on the field you have an all around pass catcher. When Bush is running well, he's also a catch anywhere pass catcher. Marshall is that kind of guy. If the offense had two more guys like that and kept Bess for multiple WR sets and short yardage they'd be even better off. You have to force a defense to pick their poison. Clay-Bush on the field made a dramatic difference regardless of what OL we had out there.

    Fasano had a nice game today but he's better suited as a #2 TE still. For now though he's fine in his role. Too bad Gates hasn't developed yet, because if he does Marshall will find plenty of room to work and show just how good he really is.
     
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  19. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Great points, Jaj. IMO our offense could take on a different form if we add WR Kendall Wright in the 2nd round followed by Coby Fleener in the 3rd to become the #1 TE.

    Wright, who I think has Greg Jennings'ish potential, could share time in the slot in 3 WR sets [with Gates at flanker] and at flanker in 2 WR formations. How nice would it be to see a slot receiver running a legitimate vertical the way GB does with Jennings? We could also stretch the field with Wright & Gates outside (and Fleener at TE) and let Marshall have fun matched up on LBs or some inferior DBs in the slot. If you add Clay, Thomas, and Bush to the mix, there's some speed, talent, and playmaking ability that we haven't seen on this offense since what--- Duper & Clayton?

    Our redzone offense would look noticeably improved, too, no? We could be somewhat comparable to Houston. Fleener is like Daniels. Clay is very similar to James Casey. Marshall is our poor man's Andre. Daniel Thomas has the ability and versatility to be a threat in the Arian Foster mold. We both have a decent, token, white possession receiver, and Wright offers the playmaking ability of Jacoby Jones (albeit different type of players). But we'd have a reliable chain mover in Bess, an added speed element with Gates & Bush, and overall solid depth.

    The biggest key would be getting our Oline on par with theirs. IMO if you paired Daniel Thomas with Houston's line, he'd be a beast (both running and out of the backfield).
     
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  20. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    You're guy Fleener in fact has apparently improved his blocking from everything I'm reading (I was focused on Luck I admit). If he can become above-average in that regard, the sky is the limit for offenses that bring that type of balance. Just the last two games I've seen better throwing windows for Matt Moore and less pressure (except when we were trying to rally in a wide open set in a passing situation against the Giants). Houston's balance on offense and now defense is masterful.

    There's a strong possibility that Marcedes Lewis shakes loose out of Jacksonville and he'd be a guy for Miami.
     
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  21. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I wouldn't mind Lewis one bit since he frees up a valuable draft pick and is NFL ready, although I think Fleener could make an early impact.

    I've watched the past 2 Miami games from a hospital and a bar (TV was a little further away than I'd prefer and had no sound) so I'm glad you mentioned the differences you've noticed with the offense regarding personnel, throwing windows, space etc.

    I never understood Parcell's draft & FA philosophy here and why everything had to be so possession related. Average to slow possession WRs in Turner, Hartline, and Bess while already having Cammy (and then ditching Ginn). Are you kidding me? That was his vision? The slowest, most non-playmaking receiving corps in the NFL? Tunahead should've been shot for that alone. Then tack on the slower possession type TEs in Fasano & Nalbone (add 1 more bullet to that chamber). Possession type backs in Lex, Parmele, Ricky, and Ronnie. It's like he was playing chess and trying to focus excessively on the pawns & moving 1 space at a time while ignoring the playmaking pieces that can do some real damage. It seemed like both Tuna & Henning were so arrogant they actually believed an offense like that should be able to flawlessly out-execute NFL defenses on a weekly basis. Either that, or having playmakers was viewed as a negative b/c they "speed up drives" by offering chunk yardage and quick strike ability. lol.

    With Parcells gone (and his buddy, Henning), our offensive drafting did a complete 180 from the 3 years prior, so I wonder how much of the flack we've given Ireland should go to Tuna.
     
  22. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Dis, I have to respectfully disagree here. This OL, up to yesterday's game has been awful. At KC they put things together for a change. The problem isn't that they never can pass block...sometimes they are pretty good at it. The problem isn't that they can't run block, sometimes they open NFL holes for our backs. The problem is that they can't do it when they have to, again, save for the KC game, where they played fairly consistently all game long. Every time we get into a must have situation, they have let the team down. Is it coaching ?? Is it lack of talent ?? IDK, but they have been consistently inconsistent for several years under this regime, including the 2008 season where we barely beat teams we should have beaten soundly, despite having Penny healthy here to lead this group... Inconsistent in an OL is paramount to poor playing, not mediocre...
     
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  23. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    They have no vision of an OL. If they were smart they'd realize that Garner at LG with Incognito or Carey at RG is their best combo. As far as RT none of these guys should be there (maybe Feinga ironically) or that UDFA they picked up. It's really that bad. If they had consistent blocking there they could release Fasano into pass routes.

    Bess has honestly been lost in the offense this year. Without Henne forcing the ball in there to him, you can see his production dropping like a rock. It may change if defenses focus on the TEs and Marshall more, but as of now we have so many short route threats that you need a guy like Gates or at least a healthy Hartline to spread the field.

    As far as drafting and putting together the pieces in one season Ireland has actually assembled a core resembling the balanced one in 2008, except more talented obviously with Marshall. His draft this year has actually been very solid and if it weren't for Thomas and the rest of the team's bizarre hamstring problems he would also be producing at a nice rate. If Gates develops then they have a heck of an offense and you don't need to fix much more than the offensive line (which is one stupid change away).
     
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