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I've moved from being a fan to just a watcher...

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by DolphinGreg, Nov 8, 2015.

  1. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Bill Lazor's not even running an NFL offense anymore. It's like he took Chip Kelly's playbook and threw away all the legitimate NFL concepts and took all of the college stuff that was guaranteed never to work in the NFL and is only running that stuff. I'm not sure what else could be done to sabotage an offense. What we see on a week-to-week basis is a joke.

    I'm not going to judge the QB, the WRs, the RBs or the O-line until I can take the OC seriously.

    At this point I'm just tuning in to see what happens. Nothing is going to change under Bill Lazor so even tuning in seems pointless. I couldn't call myself a fan unless I thought something good might happen and I'm pretty confident it won't.
     
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  2. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    What is your biggest gripe with Lazor right now?
     
  3. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Lazor overthinks everything. He has to be forced the run the ball and even then he still can't wait to get away from it. I've never seen an NFL QB forced to make as many throws as Tannehill does within 2-3 yards of the line of scrimmage (or behind it!). Lazor doesn't even attempt to push the ball vertically down the field yet he has a strong-armed QB who's proven he can stand in the pocket and take a hit.

    I just can't take Lazor seriously. When Miami attempts to run the ball things improve. When they attempt to push the ball 10-20 yards downfield in chunks things improve. The fact that is so rare is what stands out.

    You're not going to win when you only do the right things 2 or 3 times a game. Miami wastes WAY too many drives with stupid play-calling.
     
  4. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. The 2 yard passes on 3rd and 5+ are getting ever more ridiculous but it's not all on Lazor either. Thill usually has 4 options at minimum and he will throw to the 1 guy short of the sticks without fail almost every time. I swear he makes up his mind 90% of the time who he is throwing to pre-snap. You'd expect better out of a 4th year, 1st rounder.
     
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  5. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You're right. The QB is going to get blamed and he certainly lacks the kind of quick decision-making and vision we see from great QBs but repeatedly wasting plays and starting games with poor plans I put on the coaches. Plus, while the QB contributes what he can, he's also a product of the coaching to some degree.
     
  6. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    After the long pass to Stills ofcourse we come back with the typical 2 yarder to Landry followed by the shotgun pitch that we love so much. These guys are predictably bad across the board.
     
  7. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Man im about to crack my tv screen with my yelling alone. Not sure what took so long to snap the next play after Landrys first down. So muchh time wasted. A good 20 plus seconds. Jesus christ this team is not there mentally.
     
  8. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    Yep and then you're too stupid to take a timeout with 12 seconds left. It's crazy how incompetent the fins are. What are you saving the timeout for? Oh that's right, to take after the clock is already stopped lol. I knew they'd mess up somehow. I expected a turnover but Atleast they're finding new creative ways to embarrass themselves. I like campbell but if he isn't smart enough to take a timeout there then he has no business coaching in the nfl.
     
  9. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's why I'm questioning the OC. I have no idea what the offensive players are being told during the week but it's not working and it hasn't been for awhile. They look lost on have their possessions and too many of the good possessions involve a player making a single outstanding play or a defensive screw-up.
     
  10. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I have to agree. That was a brutal screw-up. When Philbin committed those kind of screw-ups it lived with him into eternity. I'll be honest, not calling time-out after 1st down and letting 15 seconds run off the clock is a dumb mistake by the HC, OC and QB. All of those guys should've known what to do.

    Embarrassing.
     
  11. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    this whole staff sucks, Tannenbaum knew it when he took over, unfortunately our dumb *** owner refused to let him make any changes
     
  12. firedan

    firedan Well-Known Member

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    I will always be a fan but hope for the day when things improve.
    Until then I will watch because I'm a football fan as well.
     
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  13. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree, Lazor isn't a good playcaller, which imo means he doesn't know how to set up a defense, nor does he know how to use his qb's strengths.

    opening the frist drive inside the ten on the road in empty shotgun is in all liklihood because thats how he scripted his first series..
     
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  14. Dolphins1Beatles

    Dolphins1Beatles Ziggy Stardust

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    Dolphins games aren't fun to watch. I I actually agreed to work [most] Sunday afternoons before the season even started because I knew it'd be another playoff-less year. Might as well make some money while the Dolphins lose. The Bengals may finally win that elusive playoff game this year. It'd be just the Browns, Chiefs, Lions and Bills with a longer win drought than the Dolphins after that. Miami is in great company in franchise futility now...

    I mean, I didn't expect them to be 0-4 in the Division though. And all 4 games they got dominated. They need to blow it up. Not many players I have trust in. Its such a weak playoff year in the AFC and the Dolphins still won't be able to capitalize.
     
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  15. Kud_II

    Kud_II Wtf is this curse you Gave me Lord? Club Member

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    Fire Lazor.!
     
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  16. sad dolfan

    sad dolfan Banned

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    Tomorrow please!
     
  17. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    The quarterback's strengths of this team isn't really much. You want him to roll out, we get it, he's still not good even with a few rollouts. He's average, robotic, he doesn't have much of a future as a starting quarterback.

    Now the issue is, what coach will want to come here If that coach is forced to have Tannehill as their quarterback. Ross is going to ask that coach to fix Tannehill, make him good. Why would any coach come here with that quarterback holding their job on the line?

    I can only name 5-7 starting quarterbacks that Tannehill is probably better than. This guy is a loser, will always be a loser. Trade him to the Eagles tomorrow so that we can win next Sunday.
     
  18. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Its not just about rolling out, never has been...but don't let me interrupt you
     
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  19. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    Tannehill is not a QB. He's an athlete. I want a QB with some passion for the game.
     
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  20. NDphinsfan

    NDphinsfan New Member

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    Wow u hit the nail on the head, I bet we lead the league in negative plays. We're wasting talent by not utilizing our best players the right way. Lazor is a joke and why he is still on this coaching staff I don't know. We need a head coach that's gonna say hey bill that's a sh*t call stop it Throw the ball down the field instead of parallel to the line. It's so predictable for a defense If I was a dc I would be licking my chops to play Miami. So easy to stop. If it's 3rd and long u can guarantee we'll get blitzed and sacked and prolly fumble, good lord have an outlet receiver. I could go on and on. But I agree with last post hard to blame players when the oc is asking them to do the same thing and expect different results it's a joke.
     
  21. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    What killed me was all those short yard situations where we never even tried to run the football.....did we EVER run on 3rd down today? Or how about the last play of the half and the one-yard bullet to Sims? Sure, it was great coverage and a great stop, but those are downs where you send a RB up the gut and get the 7 points. That's what really bugs me the most- we claim to be a run team, yet we're 100% passing when things really matter.
     
  22. bakedmatt

    bakedmatt Well-Known Member

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    Guess it wasn't all Philbin.
     
  23. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    sure it was/is. these are his guys

    And the Ghost of Joe lives on

    Cant believe that some people actually thought firing Philbin was going to solve the problem.

    Blow it up - start over

    its the only way to purge the Philbin mediocrity philosophy.

    We are unfortunately going to have to really suck before we can get good. like 4-12 x's 2 season's. Have to build the lines both offensively and defensively. Young hard nosed guys then add the moving pieces.

    If it was me I would give matt Moore 4 a year , Trade Tannehill, SUH and Wake. Set a parameter for talent acquisition including salaries. Look at any sucessful team long term and they have these things in place
     
  24. Phins Up Wins Up

    Phins Up Wins Up Banned

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    Yep one of the best tight ends in the NFL Jordan Cameron is nonexistent here in Miami. Only Miami can make him look like a freaking no body.
     
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  25. Dolphinzdawgg

    Dolphinzdawgg Banned

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    Why would someone want any of those players ? THill is unfixable, Suh's contract makes it unrealistic we can even trade him and Wake will be untradable, and probably expendable at the end of the season, as he will in all probability never the same player he once was.

    But I do agree we need to get really bad, before we can get better. Unfortunately you have an owner that will really hate that, and fight against it. He is the start of all the problems we have.
     
  26. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    I'm on the fence with Lazor. I like a lot of the designs he uses. Movement and misdirection and stuff of that nature. My issue is he doesn't have a great feel for the game. Some of the play calling in certain situations is mind boggling. We are such a good two-minute team, so why don't we run that more throughout the game? Be more aggressive and don't give the defense a chance to breathe.
     
  27. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    My biggest with the play calling is all the 3rd and long play where we throw the ball to the line of scrimmage or behind it. Needing 15 yards and throwing it two and expecting the player to have 15 YAC instead of throwing it 15 yards to get a first down.
     
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  28. mnfinfan

    mnfinfan Active Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Am afraid to say I didn't even turn the TV on, followed it on NFL.com mobile app (don't have Verizon) while I cleaned the garage, and winterized the yard and deck. Got so much stuff done that I scored major brownie points with the wife AND kept my blood pressure down.

    So I am the opposite Greg, I am a fan but not a watcher at this moment. Hard to watch the same stuff week in and week out. Almost feels like Tennessee and Houston were aberrations and we are unlikely to see again this year. It feels that we have so many areas to fix that I am not sure if we will ever fix it.
     
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  29. SuhMe

    SuhMe Banned

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    Maybe, but having the worst coaching staff in the league since his rookie year hasn't helped much either. Put Tannehill in Philly and see how he does, amazing how Foles, Vick, and Bradford look so much better in Philly than anywhere else. That's what happens when you have a coach who knows what he's doing, Tannehill has never had that probably even dating back to college and it shows. Some may see that as another excuse, but when your collegiate and NFL head coaches lose their jobs shortly after your arrival, that tells a lot about the quality of coaching you've received and the effectiveness of the systems you've been forced to learn and execute. Tannehill definitely needs to play better, but the truth is he's never really had an intelligent football mind to maximize his talents like Russell Wilson has had with Pete Carroll. Just the way it is, Campbell isn't the answer but it's not his fault. Ross should have fired queasy last year (Like Ireland advised before getting fired) and brought in a real coach like Dan Quinn who actually had the resume and experience this team really needed. Now it's too late and it's just pure evaluation mode, I hope Ross is having fun with his toy. He might be worth 50 billion dollars but guys like Jeff Ireland have more football IQ in their left nut than Ross has in his entire brain. Problem is, knowledge and intelligence doesn't make you the boss, $$ does so Ross gets his way no matter what and his way was Philbum. Life of an NFL die hard fan, at least we don't have Sneider I guess. Say what you want about Ireland, he was dead right in wanting to fire Failbin years ago and ultimately that was the main reason he lost his job.
     
  30. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    When Ryan Tannehill has 8+ y/a:
    2012- 3 times for an average of 21 points per game and a 2-1 record
    2013- 2 times for an average of 24 points per game and a 2-0 record
    2014- 4 times for an average of 35 points per game and a 4-0 record
    2015- 4 times for an average of 30 points per game and a 2-2 record

    On one hand its only the second time Tannehill has had a game of 8+ y/a against the AFC East but on the other it was our lowest point total when he has a game of 8+ y/a. Its really mind boggling how we scored so little when the offense looked so efficient at both the run and the pass, but I don't see how anybody can say Lazor is absolutely the problem with the team. Statistically we're doing things on offense we haven't done in decades.
     
  31. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    Beginning every running play 7-10 yds in the backfield is my biggest problem. That shotgun snap pitch out running play is a joke. When we run the ball from a pro set the pro football players on our side are successful. When we try the High School ish the Pro football players on the other side are successful. You get paid a LOT of money to know that Lazor! Figger it OUT!!!
     
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  32. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's interesting. I guess I'd respond with a few points:

    Firstly, efficiency and production are separate concepts and efficiency by itself (things like completion percentage) isn't all that impressive because if production wasn't being judged, every QB could easily play the efficiency game wherein downfield throws are minimized and many run plays are replaced with short tosses and throws. That kind of play-calling will bump up the efficiency stats of any QB. If your efficiency is the byproduct of conservative play-calling and a risk-averse offense, you'll be hard pressed to show that you win more often than you lose.

    Secondly, YPA as a stat may correlate well to winning but so do points. They correlate because they are general measures of output which we'd expect to be higher on average in wins. Said another way, there's going to be an obvious correlation if we measure things that will tend to appear mostly when a team is winning. The problem is a practical one. How do you increase YPA? How do you increase points? If what you're measuring is too general and doesn't speak directly to a single individual, it'll be hard to make any use out of that measure.

    Of course these things apply to winning but they're too vague to be an indictment on anyone in particular. Taking the total number of passing yards and dividing by the number of passing attempts is a good measure of overall offensive efficiency but things like YAC and missed tackles also factor into building up the passing yardage so it's not just the QB or the OC you're measuring when you look at passing yards. What you're seeing is actually a measure of general offensive success which is based on all factors, included the opposing defense.

    So while the stats you mention look impressive, at least in terms of points, I think you're basically saying that in their best games (when things go well) Miami does well. That's true, however, we still have to question (1) why there is so much inconsistency between those standout games, (2) whether or not there's anything different happening in those games that could potentially be controlled by the OC to make it happen more often and (3) if Lazor is capable of utilizing that thing more often.


    Me personally? I don't think based on how he calls plays that Lazor is really fit for the job nor that we as viewers should expect to see an increase in game-to-game consistency.
     
  33. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    1. Tannehill is on pace to have 8 games of 8+ y/a this season. That is in-line with the upper echelon/elite QBs. I think these are the kind of results most of us were expecting in year two of Lazor's system. So is this proof that what Lazor is doing is working or is this evidence that Tannehill is naturally progressing in spite of bad coaching?

    2. I don't believe Lazor is the conservative one in this equation. After the Ravens game when taking heat for not going down the field his response was that there are down the field options built into almost every passing play, he would have to look at the film to see if the offense was too conservative. Reading between the lines I think he was putting the blame on the QB. And recently he said if you have zero interceptions as a QB thats more of an indication your being too conservative than anything. Maybe thats his way of saying these completion records are great and all but I would prefer you complete 50% of 30 yard throws than 100% of 5 yard throws.
     
  34. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    (1) We'll see how things play out. I doubt Tannehill is going to be statistically significant by the end of the year. Miami exploded in two fluke games wherein they played bad opponents. Houston's defensive effort was a joke. We both know that. Mariota was hobbled and Miami didn't get their full punch. When I look through the rest of the other 6 games, I see one that stands out as being a great QB performance (Jax).

    (2) Lazor's statement is whatever you want it to be. It could be personal defense. It could be a knock on the QB. It could be a rebuttal to a reporter thinking he knows too much. It could be nothing. To be perfectly honest, I doubt there's much too it. People have been talking about it for too long given we don't even know how to interpret what he meant.
     

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