I can't speak for the other games, I didn't see them. What I can say is that based upon what I saw last night I'd pay Long what he got from the Rams and I'd throw an extra million dollars in there since it would have helped us to avoid the OT disaster we have going on here now. Clabo is obviously awful, hopefully McKinnie will be somewhat better but he has a bad knee, and my guess is that Martin will never be anything above average at LT. As to Wallace, Pro Bowl for him this year hasn't been a thought for me, Indy game or otherwise. he was good in Indy, not great. One of the points of the thread is that I've heard that long has been good for the Rams this year, he's sucked, he's rated #12 by PFF, all of that. So finally I got a chance to watch him and I was very impressed, especially in comparison to Miami's current crap fest at OT. I can't speak for the other games, just what I watched when keying on him last night. I've been clear about that. if anyone has game film of him being outplayed by Martin, McKinnie or Clabo the year please post it, I'd like to see it. Not some one-off play of Long off balance or whatever, but an entire game or at least a substantial clip.
That last sentence is another overly simplistic conclusion. Of course not everyone would leave, if for no other reason that not every other player had or will have the options/offers that Jake Long had. The goal is to find out the reasons and nuances of why Jake Long left as a tool to help determine the state of the FO and coaching staff- you don't seem interested in that at all, so whatever. Learn nothing and let history repeat itself. As to Long's game against the Cowboys, I'd like to see that, it would broaden my evaluation. That being said, based on what I saw yesterday of Long and all season for the Dolphins OTs, I would take Jake Long back in a minute, pay him what he asked for and avoided the disaster that we have at OT this year. You can slice it and dice it any way that you want, but losing Jake Long led to a disaster on the OL. Clabo was a purely awful choice at RT, and I'm not a believer in Martin at LT. Hopefully Dallas Thomas will not be a bust, but early returns aren't looking good. If Thomas and Martin bust, ireland should give up on drafting OL and choosing OL free agents, his track record is horrendous. I don;t give him credit on Long or Pouncey, because Long was a no brainer top 5 pick taken #1 overall and Pouncey was the highest Center selected since Chuck Bednarik or some other Star Wars pick- long, long ago and far, far away. Ireland is just awful at picking OL, plain and simple.
One could also ask what's the Rams record with Long added this year? (3-5) Or how good is the Rams starting QB playing (St. Louis Rams quarterback Sam Bradford is out for the season). Even knowing this I wish Long wanted to stay in Miami but he didn't.
I didn't watch the Ram's game last night except for a few minutes, but I've watched some of their other games and IMO Long looked worse than Martin in the early games and then about as good as Martin in the latter games. And this was after the point PFF where starting to rate him higher (based on the posts here). There's no way I would conclude that we'd have a better record with him here. And while I was one of the few (along with KB and a few others) who questioned pursuing Wallace, I think that Wallace has probably helped as much as Long would have, record-wise. Wallace has had a couple of games where he was an obvious factor and I think he's created space in less obvious ways for our other receivers in the other games. In the end I think that both have (or would have been) disappointments. Off-topic, but in the few minutes I did watch, Wilson and that offense looked worse than Miami's has at any point this season. I read they gave up 7 sacks. Wilson had 139 yards passing (80 of it on one play where the DB fell down) so that means they had 59 yards passing the rest of the game. And it wasn't like their run game was excelling (44 yds). Their leading rusher had 23! But they won again (mostly based on TOs and some luck) so nobody notices that Wilson has had his share of struggles with fumbles and sacks as well.
He's rated as the 8th best tackle in the NFL through 8 games, substantially higher than any OT on our roster.
As much as I wanted Jake back, and as much as I think he would have improved this team this year... I really have to agree with this. Look back if you want at the time I was adament about keeping Jake here at all costs, Jake apparently decided to leave, it is what it is... we need to stop trying to blame it on Ireland, or whoever, he chose to leave... he's not here. That's the end of it really. Would he have made us better, of course he would have, but he cant, and he wont any longer, so its time to move on.
Jake Long has looked significantly better than Jonathan Martin from the beginning if you're paying attention to the details, IMO. But it doesn't matter that much because the bottom line is every credible report I've heard has suggested (or more than suggested) that the deals were similar or equivalent and the bottom line is he wanted to be there instead of here. I think if Miami had a better bedside manner (i.e. not a negotiator who inspires visceral, public ire from agents and players) then he might have chosen to stay. But we don't know. Failing to keep him was ultimately a failure, but I don't think it was a failure to match the contract.
Yeah, it reminds me of Aldon Smith steamrolling Martin last year and Mario Williams basically picking up and disposing of Clabo this year. The difference is to me that I saw Jake Long play great last night, substantially better than any of the Dolphins OTs, not even close. On top of that, the Miami OTs tend to get manhandled, and I'm guessing that the Long clip is a one-off or close to it. I'd like to see significant game footage form the other 7 games this year if anyone has it, one play against Dallas isn't a big deal. That being said, what I saw last night from Long was excellent football. Also, for those who are maintaining that Long isn't playing well this year, maybe they can explain what's up with the PFF #8 OT ranking this year. I don't follow PFF, but I would be curious as to where Clabo, Martin and McKinnie rate. PFF must really be off if they have Jake rated at #8 and he actually sucks this year. I doubt that being the case.
A "water under the bridge" thread in the Dolphins main. Isn't there better things to do. Jake Long was never all that great anyway.
Long hasn't be very good this season. If not for the Mike Wallace contract, Long would be the most overpaid FA from last offseason.
All this is great, but the choice between Jake Long and Tyson Clabo or Jon Martin is a false one. None of those guys are being paid what Jake Long is being paid.
From the time he returned to Miami before deciding to sign with St Louis, a few days passed. He was mulling over something. I seem to recall reports that he was seen back at Dolphins HQ during that time. Why was he there if not because of a final offer? If it was St Louis all the way as for he wanted to be, once he went there, had his physical, and had a firm offer, why didn't he sign right away?
How many Rams games have you watched? PFF now has him as the 7th best LT. Regardless of Wallace, the Rams got a good deal with that they paid to Long if he remains healthy, which is the case with any UFA.
I haven't check the figures, but Omar Kelly brought up that Jake Long is getting paid more than Miami's offensive line combined.
The Dolphins made the wrong decision? That's so unlike them. This franchise is a joke, it's been run so poorly for the last half decade that I expect bad signings and draft picks at this point. Let's just weather the storm and get to January when we finally clean house. Looking at potential GM candidates is literally the only thing about this season that brings me happiness.
I don't know, but if i recall correctly he signed with the Rams before ireland made a final offer, maybe they wanted to up it at the very end- I don't know but i'd like to find out.
I get it he's gone, and ain't coming back, but that does not mean I want to revise history to make me feel better about it. Long is a Ram because the offered more guaranteed money. Period. Peyton is a Bronco, because they had the cap room to far outbid every other interested team. Period. It is always funny how some player signs with a new team and says yeah that is just where they wanted to be. It is just a coincidence that the team also made them the best offer. There are exceptions, but they are few and far between, and that is usually where the player just takes the first reasonable offer and does not have multiple offers on the table.
It would have been money very well spent. Of course there was a choice- Miami chose to gamble by not offering Long the contract that he wanted- we lost him to the Rams and then signed Clabo, who failed miserably. If the Rams offered him a deal that was significantly larger than our offer, then that would make more sense to me. But from everything I've heard the deals were close. Quite frankly, your post doesn't make much sense.
His PFF ratings per game, so far: -0.1, 3.2, 0.9, 1.8, 2.3, 2.6, -0.7, 5.4... I'd take that string of games any day.
I see dozens of posts saying Long is a Ram simply because he wanted to be. Where the hell are the links to support that?
Proof for this statement? It gets used a lot around these parts, however, I never see proof. Ever. Also, hes making more than our entire line combined, that opens us up room for other players. When this season started we were looking ok with a pro bowler in Clabo and Martin back where hes comfortable. No one predicted whats unfolding.
I see dozens of posts saying Long is a Ram simply because he wanted to be. Where the hell is the proof to support that? After signing, Long says he is happy to be a Ram. Well what the fvck else do you expect him to say? Jezus H Christ on a bike.
Not quite understanding the insistence that Jake Long is doing poorly in the face of objective and/or third party evidence that he's doing quite well. An example of third party (but not objective) evidence would be Pro Football Focus' grades, which currently rank him the 8th best offensive tackle in football. That grade is constituted by his 1st ranked status as a run blocker, and 22nd ranked status as a pass blocker...out of 73 tackles. An example of objective evidence would be their pass block efficiency scores which rank Long 30 out of 71. This seems fairly consistent with the subjective grade above.
And when you are talking about contracts with similar money it comes down to how the player is/was treated and how negotiations went. We've had a bad track record with some players over the years and our front office has a rep that isn't all that great around the league....deserved or not. Who knows what really happened but I have to feel like if we had really wanted to keep Long.....not at a discount or "take it or leave it" type deal he would have resigned here. I mean why did he even become a free agent if we wanted to keep him?
I disagree. Rams suck. LTs arent going to make or break a superbowl. Giving a LT almost QB money is insane.
After he signed with them, what else do you expect him to say? He was being PC for the media and fans like most players do in a similar situation. Do you think he is going to say something like: "I really wanted to stay in Miami, but their contract offer just wasn't close to what the Rams had on the table." If you do, you're living in a fantasy world.
Rams as a team are not doing well. That is not the same thing as your saying Long is playing badly for the money the Rams paid him.
