Jake Long..Vontae Davis..Jared Odrick..Mike Pouncey..

What year are we in for this rebuilding project?

We have a realistic chance to make the playoffs this year ?

Our impact players are who?

How many mediocre years does this regime get? If they double their home wins form a year ago does that buy them one more year? two more years?

The plan is exactly what?

Results are an afterthought ?

Wrong direction , this team is floundering ....we won't sniff the playoffs this year imho.

"dolfan22 wrote:

What year are we in for this rebuilding project?

We have a realistic chance to make the playoffs this year ?

Our impact players are who?

How many mediocre years does this regime get? If they double their home wins form a year ago does that buy them one more year? two more years?

The plan is exactly what?

Results are an afterthought ?

Wrong direction , this team is floundering ....we won't sniff the playoffs this year imho.

Is this based on sniffing the playoffs last season and losing a bunch of great players?

"We must quantify the impact on a team that hits on 4 consecutive first round talents"

Odrick and Pouncey clearly haven't made any impact. They may , but they haven't. Vontae has flashed , but been inconsistent , can't see that being debated.

Again, the results are? At some point you have to realize wins and losses and playoff wins as the measuring stick. Lots of excuses being made for this team and this teams regime , imo.

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

Is this based on sniffing the playoffs last season and losing a bunch of great players?

I don't think we sniffed the playoffs last year , you do? Really?

It is based on the gap widening , imo , between Miami and NE and NY and other playoff caliber teams.

"dolfan22 wrote:

I don't think we sniffed the playoffs last year , you do? Really?

It is based on the gap widening , imo , between Miami and NE and NY and other playoff caliber teams.

Miami was in the playoff chase at the halfway point of the season. They still had a chance 3/4th the way through. that is sniffing.

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

Miami was in the playoff chase at the halfway point of the season. They still had a chance 3/4th the way through. that is sniffing.

We totally disagree then in that regard. Glad you are content with that performance though. I am not.

"dolfan22 wrote:

What year are we in for this rebuilding project?

We have a realistic chance to make the playoffs this year ?

Our impact players are who?

How many mediocre years does this regime get? If they double their home wins form a year ago does that buy them one more year? two more years?

The plan is exactly what?

Results are an afterthought ?

Wrong direction , this team is floundering ....we won't sniff the playoffs this year imho.

And who was the impact player on the board at 15 that you are just SO outraged that we passed on?

Ingram? A 4 yard and a cloud of dust RB... thats the "impact player"? No. We can get an RB like that in the 3rd-4th. Who else in the first round was an "impact player" that we could have had?

Fact is, this first round SUCKED in terms of the round's talent matching up with our needs. Heavy in DL, which is the one position on our team we have tons of players at. There werent any impact players in the middle of the first to be had. Any QB worth a 1st rounder went before our pick, and we had no ammo to move up to get one.

The 1st round sucked in terms of the talent we needed vs. the talent available. I havent been happy about it since before the draft. See: I REALLY hate this draft!!!

But to blame the Fins for there not being an available playmakers in the 1st is nonsense...

Trading down was Option #1, #2, and #3... but there were no trade partners. At that point, you have to take one of the best players on the board that makes sense for your team... and Pouncey was the only one...

"dolfan22 wrote:

We totally disagree then in that regard. Glad you are content with that performance though. I am not.

who said I was content? how can you disagree? What is your definition of "sniff the playoffs"?

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

Miami was in the playoff chase at the halfway point of the season. They still had a chance 3/4th the way through. that is sniffing.

Exactly, we were solidly in the playoff hunt in the final weeks of the season which is why Henne has fans so angry with him after throwing int's to lose the Lions and Browns games, we still would not have made the playoffs even if we had won both of those games as the Jests won out, however it is inarguable that in 2009 and 2010 we were solidly in playoff contention at the end of the season.

I do not share D22's pessimism as I feel the team is still young and will improve and grow through the maturation process, and adding Edds and Odie will help the defense instantly, however the Offense is not very different from where it was in 2008 heading into the season and prior to adding Pennington..lots of questions.

"padre31 wrote:

Exactly, we were solidly in the playoff hunt in the final weeks of the season which is why Henne has fans so angry with him after throwing int's to lose the Lions and Browns games, we still would not have made the playoffs even if we had won both of those games as the Jests won out, however it is inarguable that in 2009 and 2010 we were solidly in playoff contention at the end of the season.

I do not share D22's pessimism as I feel the team is still young and will improve and grow through the maturation process, and adding Edds and Odie will help the defense instantly, however the Offense is not very different from where it was in 2008 heading into the season and prior to adding Pennington..lots of questions.

I can see some similarities, however I do think it has more answers. In 2008 our best reciever was either Greg Camarillo (who caught 8 passes the year before) or Ted Ginn. The best lineman was BY FAR Vernon Carey and I cannot remember the second best, I do remember they let go of Rex Hadnot. The runningback situation was much better and the tight end position was a little better. however the tight end position could be about the same after today.

"FinNasty wrote:

And who was the impact player on the board at 15 that you are just SO outraged that we passed on?

Ingram? A 4 yard and a cloud of dust RB... thats the "impact player"? No. We can get an RB like that in the 34d-4th. Who else in the first round was an "impact player" that we could have had?

The comments are for overall , we passed last year on a position of need and an impact player. We passed on , imo , a franchise QB , for a safe pick. The decision to be safe is resulting in mediocrity , can't see how that is debatable. The slide last year isn't either. I hope they are right and I am wrong , that we make the playoffs this year and make a long super bowl run , I really do .... I don't believe that one iota though.

I don't see Pouncey as being significantly better than several lineman available later in the first. So the option to trade down , or up was there. Ireland stated , he never made calls to move down...nice...proactive there.

Maybe they don't feel Gabbert is a legitimate above average QB , but he certainly was there to select if they wanted him. Again , it is the pattern of ignoring the important position of QB , and hoping something works , and limiting this team with dynamic players , when we have to compete against them on other teams , by not addressing the need over the length of this tenure.

Fact is, this first round SUCKED in terms of the round's talent matching up with our needs. Heavy in DL, which is the one position on our team we have tons of players at. There werent any impact players in the middle of the first to be had. Any QB worth a 1st rounder went before our pick, and we had no ammo to move up to get one.

The 1st round sucked in terms of the talent we needed vs. the talent available. I havent been happy about it since before the draft. See: I REALLY hate this draft!!!

But to blame the Fins for there not being an available playmakers in the 1st is nonsense...

The comments are for overall , we passed last year on a position of need and an impact player. We passed on , imo , a franchise QB , for a safe pick. The decision to be safe is resulting in mediocrity , can't see how that is debatable. The slide last year isn't either. I hope they are right and I am wrong , that we make the playoffs this year and make a long super bowl run , I really do .... I don't believe that one iota though.

I don't see Pouncey as being significantly better than several lineman available later in the first. So the option to trade down , or up was there. Ireland stated , he never made calls to move down...nice...proactive there.

Maybe they don't feel Gabbert is a legitimate above average QB , but he certainly was there to select if they wanted him. Again , it is the pattern of ignoring the important position of QB , and hoping something works , and limiting this team with dynamic players , when we have to compete against them on other teams , by not addressing the need over the length of this tenure.

"padre31 wrote:

Exactly, we were solidly in the playoff hunt in the final weeks of the season which is why Henne has fans so angry with him after throwing int's to lose the Lions and Browns games, we still would not have made the playoffs even if we had won both of those games as the Jests won out, however it is inarguable that in 2009 and 2010 we were solidly in playoff contention at the end of the season.

I do not share D22's pessimism as I feel the team is still young and will improve and grow through the maturation process, and adding Edds and Odie will help the defense instantly, however the Offense is not very different from where it was in 2008 heading into the season and prior to adding Pennington..lots of questions.

Pads, we were not solidly in a playoff position late last season. That we trended down is somehow a positive sign? Again , how did we make up the widening gap between us and NE and NY?

the only problems this team has had the last couple years were injury prone players and bad coaching ....

we've ditched most of the injury prone guys, and some of the bad coaches .... but one big one still remains :wink2:

if we don't catch a sniff of the playoffs in the next 2 years -- Fat Man Tony will be the reason why ...... :pity:

"dolfan22 wrote:

What year are we in for this rebuilding project?

We have a realistic chance to make the playoffs this year ?

Our impact players are who?

How many mediocre years does this regime get? If they double their home wins form a year ago does that buy them one more year? two more years?

The plan is exactly what?

Results are an afterthought ?

Wrong direction , this team is floundering ....we won't sniff the playoffs this year imho.

Year 4...The year that any rational fan should give their regime after taking over the worst team in football..

I think we will be a better team this year than last, with the research I'am doing I feel confident that the team was not far off talent wise, and were being lead by an offensive coordinator that did not now how to use his personnel in a consistent fashion, or take advantage of certain enviable situations with clever playcalling, botttom line, if you believe in rhythm as an offense, he did many things to destroy it..Also 22, I saw very subpar efforts on behalf of Ronnie and Ricky..I think these 3 factors were the culprits of our demise.

Impact players our Cam Wake, Jake Long, Vontae Davis, Brandon Marshall, 4 of the top 5 core positions are probowl and probowl in waiting players....Karlos Dansby, the whole dline from top to bottom.

The plan is to continue to build thru the draft, it is year 4, and from where we started, not until after year 4 is it fair to judge imo.

I think 9 and 7 gets them another year..

Results have to be put in context..

What i'am trying to get at in this thread is that if these 4 pan out, which there are good signs that they will, that initself is a rare feat in todays NFL, and will eventually show itself in terms of impact.

"dolfan22 wrote:

Pads, we were not solidly in a playoff position late last season. That we trended down is somehow a positive sign? Again , how did we make up the widening gap between us and NE and NY?

you are overrating those two teams, and underrating the variables that this team had to deal with...We started with a blank cupboard because of incompetent prior regimes, they didn't, were in year 4.

Let me ask you a question 22, the way we play the jets and pats, do you think there is such a big discrepency head to head?

"djphinfan wrote:

you are overrating those two teams, and underrating the variables that this team had to deal with...We started with a blank cupboard because of incompetent prior regimes, they didn't, were in year 4.

Let me ask you a question 22, the way we play the jets and pats, do you think there is such a big discrepency head to head?

Turnarounds have been a lot quicker than 4 years dj. Look at KC last year.

I think 3 years is more than acceptable and if you are not close you better be trending that way. I don't see we are to be honest. Sure we have some players, hard to not have imo. We don't have the players needed though and I feel that the gap between NE and NY and Miami is going the wrong direction. I really do.

Like I said , if we don't own free agency , no way we make the playoffs and that to me signals a regime change , especially when you don't have a QB in place to build on and to move forward with. Just my opinion , though I can't see the positives that others do to think we are a playoff team this year.

It's hard to say we weren't close to sniffing the playoffs when we were three simple plays away from being 10-6 (drop by Langford, drop by Carroll, and a botched call giving us a loss that was really a win). There's no excuses...but some seasons, luck just isn't on a team's side.

"Linus wrote:

It's hard to say we weren't close to sniffing the playoffs when we were three simple plays away from being 10-6 (drop by Langford, drop by Carroll, and a botched call giving us a loss that was really a win). There's no excuses...but some seasons, luck just isn't on a team's side.

I think if you really look close, you right, it was just a few plays that ruined a season, some far below special teams play, and a few bad offensive coordinator calls to go with it.

I think we can close that gap this year pending the rest of this draft and free agency...

"dolfan22 wrote:

Turnarounds have been a lot quicker than 4 years dj. Look at KC last year.

I think 3 years is more than acceptable and if you are not close you better be trending that way. I don't see we are to be honest. Sure we have some players, hard to not have imo. We don't have the players needed though and I feel that the gap between NE and NY and Miami is going the wrong direction. I really do.

Like I said , if we don't own free agency , no way we make the playoffs and that to me signals a regime change , especially when you don't have a QB in place to build on and to move forward with. Just my opinion , though I can't see the positives that others do to think we are a playoff team this year.

Iam not married to them 22, iam willing to give them their final year to show us because of what they inherited...I only think its fair in this situation.

for what its worth, I think you're right

"djphinfan wrote:

When you start the rebuilding project from being the worst team in the league, it becomes imperative that you hit on all of your first round picks..I think its a safe bet that all four players are not going anywhere, and when this young core takes the field, at all four important positions, you have Prototype size, toughness, good character, and hi upside, because all four picks have that first round talent.

I believe that from where we came from, you MUST judge the totality of the four relative to what happened Prior to their arrival..Show me another impressive 4 year stretch like the one is happening here ?

Besides Mark Ingram, there was not another skill position player worth picking at 15, and interior oline was a desperate need, and, he was the best player for our need there..Some will say that it should not be that way after 3 years, the oline should of already been built, however, when you start as the worst, the 4th year is the year to judge, not the 3rd. bottom line, thats just not fair,There was just too much work to do to the whole team to think that all weaknesses should of been fixed by year 4.

As far as the QB, Coach and Irish did not feel that Mallett was worth the 15th slot, nor did the rest of the NFL front offices, and nor did the few of us on this board..The 2nd round is a new round where we might be able to move and select him, CKap or Dalton, all 3 players now have value in this round, I have believed that the player that has the most upside is Kaepernick, I feel his overall skillset is what were looking for and I hope we can land him, but I won't be upset with any of the three..If we choose not to go there, than I think we should just sit tight, and pick up the best skill position player available, in the third round, Tight end, Running back, receiver, whoever the best is at those positions, draft his ass..

My optimism is that we have a defense for the first time that can control the tempo of a football game and keep us close, any position on the other side of the ball that you can fill with a first round round draft pick at a position of need, the better balance you are going to have as a football team..

We must quantify the impact on a team that hits on 4 consecutive first round talents..The totality of that talent will make an impact eventually, sexy or not,All four are big, athletic, talented football players at important positions, and when your starting point was barely 1 and 15, those positions must be filled, well, we did, with talent.

The draft has just begun, lets see what happenns...I'am excited as hell..

Of the four players drafted in the first round since this front office took over four years ago. The only pro bowl player is Long. Davis is a good but not great CB in the NFL at this time. I don't have any idea how effective Odrick will be in the NFL, since he has done nothing to date except spend all his time on the injury list. The jury is still definitely out on Pouncey because he has yet to take one snap in the NFL. All I have heard about him is that he was a decent interior lineman at Florida who is not the player his brother is. All I do know about the player selections of Parcells, and Ireland, is that the Dolphins are not a playoff contender at this time and when you look at the teams who selected at the top of the draft along with the Dolphins in 2007. They all have rosters now which are superior to the roster of the Dolphins and most of them are now legitimate playoff contenders.

When you look at the amount of draft picks and money we have put into our offensive line it should be better then it is, no excuses. The fact that the interior is such a glaring weakness is a direct reflection of this staffs failure.

"jw3102 wrote:

Of the four players drafted in the first round since this front office took over four years ago. The only pro bowl player is Long. Davis is a good but not great CB in the NFL at this time. I don't have any idea how effective Odrick will be in the NFL, since he has done nothing to date except spend all his time on the injury list. The jury is still definitely out on Pouncey because he has yet to take one snap in the NFL. All I have heard about him is that he was a decent interior lineman at Florida who is not the player his brother is. All I do know about the player selections of Parcells, and Ireland, is that the Dolphins are not a playoff contender at this time and when you look at the teams who selected at the top of the draft along with the Dolphins in 2007. They all have rosters now which are superior to the roster of the Dolphins and most of them are now legitimate playoff contenders.

you can think what you want about our last 4 first round draft picks, I know how I feel how they project, your underestimating them to make your case..

Vontae is gonna be a great corner in this league, I have enough data to make that assessment..Odrick did not get injured on the first play at buffalo, while he was in the game, I saw what i needed to see, and what I saw, was impressive, Pouncey Iam not worried about..

Basically this is about what is fair considering the variables inherited...If folks want to cut ties before they play their 4th season, than I dont think thats right no matter how much you dont like them.

"dolfan22 wrote:

The comments are for overall , we passed last year on a position of need and an impact player. We passed on , imo , a franchise QB , for a safe pick. The decision to be safe is resulting in mediocrity , can't see how that is debatable. The slide last year isn't either. I hope they are right and I am wrong , that we make the playoffs this year and make a long super bowl run , I really do .... I don't believe that one iota though.

I don't see Pouncey as being significantly better than several lineman available later in the first. So the option to trade down , or up was there. Ireland stated , he never made calls to move down...nice...proactive there.

Maybe they don't feel Gabbert is a legitimate above average QB , but he certainly was there to select if they wanted him. Again , it is the pattern of ignoring the important position of QB , and hoping something works , and limiting this team with dynamic players , when we have to compete against them on other teams , by not addressing the need over the length of this tenure.

We tried to trade down... they wanted to trade down. But they couldnt. And we didnt have the ammo to move up. So no, neither were an option. What were we going to use to trade up to get Gabbert??? Next years first is what it would have taken.

No thanks to that...