So the defense looks like this?

Davis, Jones/Clemons, Marshal, Smith

Misi Dansby, Burnett

Odrick, Starks, Soliai, Wake

 

I think this has been known for a long time though. The question was never whether Jared Odrick would play DE on 1st and 2nd down out of base packages, the question was SHOULD he be doing that. I'm not sure he should. And the other question is, does he reduce down to DT on passing downs?

I would expect a healthy rotation between Olivier Vernon and Jared Odrick in both base and nickel packages. I would actually consider steering more toward Vernon reducing down to defensive tackle on nickel downs. But then that does leave us still needing one more nickel rusher from the outside opposite Wake.

 

And now Violin is saying Burnett is practicing at WLB.

 

I think that was expected as well.

 

was it ? he was supposed to be injured and done thats what the tune was in here

 

Done? I don't know when he was ever expected to be done. They signed Gary Guyton to have a little insurance there, but that's all he is. Things could have gotten a little more interesting if they drafted Luke Kuechly, but they didn't.

I know for my part I've had him pegged as the Will backer since Kevin Coyle came here. The only question to me was whether we got a true Mike to play that spot while Dansby moved out to a more natural Sam position, or whether we just have Koa play the Sam and Dansby play the Mike. I knew Ireland would lean toward the latter because from his perspective he paid Dansby to be the Mike backer and be that quarterback of the defense. They never acquired anyone like a Kuechly or anything so that made it much, much, much more likely Dansby would man the Mike and Misi the Sam.

 

There was a rumor that Burnett was injured b/c he had a cast or something. That grew into, "maybe he's done?". But in the end it was just some minor procedure.

 

That was people getting carried away in speculation. He's reportedly been fine for awhile now.

 

I don't like the fit for Odrick but I think right now he's the best they got for that position. I'm really hoping Misi becomes valuable at his new position and not just another wasted pick. I think next year's draft is where they will find pass-rushers to go into rotation with Wake and Vernon. CK has a great thread started in the Draft forum covering those bases.

 

Knee jerk reactions on a forum? Should we really be surprised? Seems no matter what happens personnel wise, additions or subtractions, or in the case of Burnett a minor scheduled procedure, most of the reactions seem to tend toward worst case scenario.

Heck, we signed that LT McDonald from Indiana after rookie mini camp, and some people were saying it may mean something happening with Jake Long. Same sort of reaction to reports of Burnett in a cast this past February.

 

I have a feeling we're going to see a lot of Pee Wee Herman dancing this year.

 

This might not be all that significantly different from normal 3-4 responsibility. It could very well be that Odrick is a closed end playing the same alignment and responsibity over tackle as he was originally expected to.

 

IMO its squarely an effort to get the best 4 DL on the field at the same time with Wake and Odrick outside and Starks and Soliai inside. I really hope Vernon emerges though because I most definitely believe that in a 4-3 your edge rushers have to be able to get upfield in a hurry and I am not sure Odrick can do that. I think inside he could be deadly in a look that featured Wake and Vernon outside and Odrick and Starks inside on passing downs. I dont like that 1st and 2nd down we could have Wake getting doubled and Soliai, Starks and Odrick trying to get pressure. I just dont think thats good enough from a passing rushing point of view. In a passing league passing rushing ability trumps run stuffers which is basically what Odrick is imo until proven otherwise

 

IMO, Misi has a golden opportunity as a hybrid DE/OLB in this defense.

 

I think a lot of this fits with the post I had right after the Draft about what the defense could look like. Nice.

 

I wish the media would pay more attention to what is going on with the nickel packages than the base 4-3 package. The base 4-3 package has been predictable since before the Draft, depending on who they ended up with in the Draft.

It's the nickel packages that have the potential to be more interesting. And we'll probably end up playing them more than the base packages, anyway.

 

It could be good. I am expecting great stuff from Odrick this year. I think he's going to be a beast in this D. He has a lot of burst and agility for a guy his size.

 

I remember that. You have done well in projecting our defense, the personnel, and how they will be utilized, IMO.

 

I think that's pretty much it. I think Odrick can pass rush from the end spot too though on the early downs. Not saying he is equal to the greatest DL ever, Reggie White, but this is similar to how the Eagles used him as I recall.
Reggie relied on mainly power as a pass rusher at DE. His club move was wicked. I remember him decleating a rookie RT in Larry Allen, with that club move, propelled him through the air, and Allen was big and strong even as a rookie, just inexperienced.
Reggie played LDE on early downs but moved inside on passing downs a lot, even lining up right on the center's nose.
Sometimes, Odrick could move inside replacing Soliai, and Vernon line up at end. But, also we could see Odrick remain at end sometimes too and someone else replace Soliai in the nickel. Maybe McDaniel.

 

Thanks.

Not sure it means much, if anything, but glancing through the pictures today, I did notice guys like Olivier Vernon, Jamaal Westerman, Jacquies Smith, and Derrick Shelby all seemingly working with the D-linemen (i.e. Starks, Soliai, Randall, Odrick, Wake, etc.). I never saw Kaddu pictured today.

I think you and Disgustipate could really be onto your boy Kaddu being an OLB, perhaps the same spot that I had Koa Misi penciled in for. I was re-thinking it today, and he kind of strikes me as hybrid of that Manny Lawson/Dontay Moch type of LB Cincinnati has at that spot. Lawson hasn't been a good pass-rusher, but he can hold the edge well and is pretty good in coverage - much like Misi. Moch was purely a special teams player as a rookie, but he was kind of a raw pass-rusher type at Nevada. I think Kaddu fits somewhere in the middle, and perhaps could be a nice project to replace Misi eventually. I've currently got him winning a roster spot so long as he shows well on special teams. I certainly think Kaddu puts Jason Trusnik and Austin Spitler in danger.

 

I think Kaddu definitely puts Trusnik in jeopardy, but not so much with Spitler, since he would be a backup MLB and I don't think either Trusnik or Kaddu projects as an inside backup LB in our new defense. Also, Spitler last season was better on STs than Trusnik was IMO.
I see Kaddu as a OLB in either front, though could be a nickel pass rushing DE too eventually.

 

I suspect they would dearly love for that to happen, the real oddity of our D is Wake is a better rusher from LDE, which to me means maybe if Vernon flashes we have far more options.

For my .02, I'd like Wake-Starks-Odie-Vernon/Misi

I've not given up on Misi and would like to see him play the elephant role for us.

 

You probably know this, but Vern's gotta pro body Dfins, it's something that can certainly help in the transition, expedite the process..his strength as well is quite good, really good actually.cant wait for the preseason, get that preseason pass and really look at the rookies.

 

I like Odrick but I just dont see him as anything like White. So few good DE's get by without a great burst off the snap and get by with power/bull rush moves exclusively...Reggie White, Michael Strahan to name a few. But the rest generally flounder in mediocrity. I like Odrick a lot more inside where he can be matched up 1-1 on a guard.

I hope you are right about Misi but at 240 he might be too light to really play that elephant role. Plus the knock on Misi has never been that he doesnt get pressure, its that he doesnt bring the QB down.

 

I disagree that Misi doesn't get pressure. He simply doesn't in my eyes. The majority of sacks in his career have been coverage sacks

 

This here, there's very few guys in Jared Odrick's weight class that have been good outside rushers. Even guys who have been "elite" players as 3-4 DEs/4-3 DTs haven't really done great when put in the position.

 

I don't get the love for Misi at DE, he sucks as a passrusher.

 

The outside rushers generally have leaner but thick frames, good height 6'2" and up, theyre athletic (think JPP, Osi, Freeney, Cole, Allen, etc)...Odrick only really fits the height requirement.

 

Don't you think that perhaps he is going to be used in the same way the Bengals use Carlos Dunlap? They aren't much different physically. Dunlap is about 6'6 and 290 and Odrick is about 6'5 and 300. Dunlap has far better straight line speed, but in drills like the shuttle or 3 cone, they were equal or in such as the short shuttle, Odrick was actually better.

 

the defensive line is a powerhouse
the linebackers are strong
the only concern I have is the secondary
& given that's Kevin Coyle's forte
I'm sure that will be brought up to speed

I am really excited about this season!

 

I like the idea of using Odrick this way, and I think that he'll excell, maybe getting to 10 sacks with enough time on the field. Lining up next to Starks, who's a good pass rusher for a DT when used in that role, should help, and he'll likely never see a double team with Wake on the other end of the line. The position that Im the most concerned about in the front seven is who will be the other LB when we play Nickle, along with Dansby. Neither Burnett nor Misi are all that good in coverage, and teams are going to continue to pick on that hole on 3rd and medium distance.

 

I don't think Odrick's job will be to get ten sacks a year. Kevin Carter was a great DE for Miami and he didn't even average all that many but no one could question his effect shutting down the left side against the run. I expect the majority of pressure to come from the excellent combo of Wake-Starks on the blind side. Starks especially could have a resurgent year. Soliai is a far better player in a one-gap than two-gap scheme and that's what he's doing now.

So is Burnett at SLB or WLB? Has that been answered?

 

I think physically and in playing style Carlos Dunlap and Jared Odrick are not close.