Outside of that 74 yard kick return, his returns average something like 23.6 yards. I think that's pretty much the definition of what you're saying...isn't it?
The difference in ground covered between some running a 4.3 /40 and someone that runs a 4.6 /40 is about 1.9 feet per second. It would take the 4.3 runner over seven seconds to make up a five yard difference....
Well look at that .. So then..Landry couldnt have been running at full speed for Gaines to have caught him that quickly...but..then again he wasnt because Jarvis didnt just comethrough unimpeeded right?
If you want to be that way that's fine. But I'm not the one insisting that I know what you are or are not capable of doing. To me your position sounds arrogant in the extreme, telling me that I can't tell the difference between 4.3 and 4.6. Speak for yourself.
Well 23.6 yards per kick return is indeed about league average. He had a great 74 yard return, but he also got caught on that return and it should have been a 107 yard touchdown.
If I were to sit here and say, I can't run a marathon and therefore none of you are capable of running a marathon, that would be very arrogant of me to presume that I know what you guys are or are not capable of doing.
You can tell the difference between 4.3 and 4.6 speed in football game action really? Well then I stand corrected and wrong. I dont believe he would have scored had he had 4.3 speed in that case...because he didnt come through not having to break stride did he?
Take away Caldwell's long and he is Avg'n 0 yards per return Take away CJ Spillers 102 and he would be at 24.8 take away Chris Polk's 102 and he is at 25 I can do this all day...
just using the information you provided on post 75. If you provided incorrect information... well then...
Absolutely, 100% certain that I can, and I do it all the time. And I'm pretty sure you can too. I'm pretty sure most of the people in here can. You just got done saying nobody's going to confuse him for Mike Wallace. Well it's funny you say that because Wallace is a 4.30 kind of guy while Jarvis Landry is a 4.6x kind of guy. If what you were saying is true about not being able to tell the difference between 4.3 and 4.6 with the naked eye, then yes indeed people would be confusing the guy for Mike Wallace. But that's not happening, because the difference between 4.3 and 4.6 is pretty easy to spot. Hell that's a softball. Try consistently telling the difference between a guy with pro velocity on his intermediate throws (about 50-55 mph average speed over 30 yards distance) and a guy who doesn't have what it takes to succeed at the next level (about 46-48 mph average speed over the same distance). Very possible to do that, even though we're probably only talking the difference between a 1.2 second throw and a 1.3 second throw. That's harder. Yet people do it all the time with just their naked eye.
No I provided perfectly accurate information you just didn't do your calculations correctly. Take out a sheet of paper and draw this with me. If two players are both on the 42 yard line which means they're even with one another that way, but one player is 5 yards closer to the sideline than the other player, and the player furthest away is running straight ahead to the end zone (i.e. parallel to the sidelines), what track would the player closest to the sideline need to take in order to catch him? And how much further will he end up running? Hint: the answer's not 5 yards.
A 74yrd return is a negative on Landry because it should have been a TD? That's sort of like saying Edgerrin James sucked because someone faster than him would have turned all those short 20 - 40 yard runs he had into TDs. We know you aren't a fan of his CK, but that's not fair.
BTW CK.. if you want to fault Landry for that not going to the house you might want to talk about the fact that he ran in a straight line instead of away from the defender (not that I think he takes it to the house either way)... but he did leave some yards on the field. AND I am done... this argument is much like marathon running
He didn't run exactly parallel to the sideline, it's just easier for you to visualize and calculate if you're using right angles. Even if it's not a right angle (which it wasn't), the point about calculating length of the sides of a triangle stands. If you WANT to be a stickler about this then here. This is a tool I commonly use in some of the analytics I run. It shows an exact starting moment where both players were in a dead run, and an exact ending moment where Gaines had caught up to Landry, who was forced to cut to the inside and stiff-arm to try and shake him. This is exactly scaled by the way. It's why I use it for some of the stuff I run for people. Yes I do believe we're done with this argument.
I would argue its all more impressive that Landry has such a high average over the span of 11 KO returns, as opposed to Spiller's 7 and Polk's 5. (And sure 5,7 and 11 KOs is a small sample size, but last year of all KO returners with 2 or more returns, only 5 had better averages than 29.3.) I'm happy with Landry returning kicks (it's definitely not the nail biters Thigpen would give me). And looking back at this Dolphins team, his 29.3 is stellar. Our KO return average over the last ten years (2013-2004): 22.3, 27.3, 24.8, 24.3, 24.9, 20.5, 22.2, 22.6, 23, & 21.4. In fact, you would have to go all the way back to 1970 to find Jake Scott returning 27 kickoffs for 29.3(of returners with 10+ returns) to equal Jarvis' feat, and there is NO ONE with a higher average. An additional fact, there are only nine instances in the entire history of the Dolphins of returners (10+ KO returns) having a better average than 23.6! So best in the history of the Dolphins is good enough for me, especially considering he is a rookie who only returned 5 in his entire collegiate career.
About 38 feet and about 42 feet. Gaines had a longer track to run but he still caught him within only about 12-13 yards. And before you go trying to convert this into 40 times and such just remember that a 40 time consists of a great many speeds as both players are going zero to sixty, so to speak. Here we're talking about two players already at a dead run and we're just measuring the difference in their top speeds. And the difference was significant. It's why he didn't bust it loose for a touchdown. The scary part is if you really look at Philip Gaines' body language on the run, he really had an extra gear he could've hit.
fair enough... I think this just proves my point that any other runner would have been caught (with the exception of any sub 4.3 runner out there)... just a matter of where on the field.
Incidentally I didn't time the two players so it's impossible to tell each player's speed. However the difference in speed works out to exactly 2 mph...which is very consistent with what I've seen from guys who run in the 4.3's versus guys who run in the 4.6's. For example, Brandin Cooks ran a 4.31 at the NFL Combine and according to the splits data he cleared the final 20 yards of that run in 1.81 seconds which translates to 22.6 mph. Kelvin Benjamin ran a 4.61 and cleared the final 20 yards in 1.98 seconds, which translates to 20.6 mph. Just sayin.
Again I disagree. I think first off a faster runner starts off the starting point that I isolated with a lot more of an advantage. Secondly, even if you take that exact start point and that exact angle, I'd estimate that a guy with 4.40 speed could have extended long enough to reach the end zone versus Gaines. And again I have to go back to it, they wouldn't have started off where they started off in my illustration if Jarvis Landry had 4.4 or even 4.5 speed. So he probably could've even made his escape with 4.5 speed. It is what it is. He busted off a good return, it could've been a great return if he were faster. BTW the reason I can pinpoint those exact landmarks on my scale is because I have access to the coaches tape. In case someone's wondering.
as to your first point... if you are changing the point in space that is due to his speed, dont you have to also ask if the holes he hit would have been there? ok. now I am done..
That one play seems to be getting a lot of traction lol. Overall, it may be the case that we have this awesome return blocking ST unit that will make anyone look good, but I kinda doubt it. It maybe two totally different skill sets, or personnel packages, or coaching tactics, but that same ST unit is the league's WORST in covering opponents returns. We are below average in every statistical category, including: #31 punt return average against, #32 punt return yards against, #32 kickoff return yards against, #26 kickoff return average against, and we allowed a KO return TD. How is it possible to have a disparity so large? I don't know, but it would lead me to believe that Jarvis Landry is not what is holding this unit back.
If you've seen the coaches tape end zone view of the play, the hole he ran through was pretty wide open. Not really much of an issue there. It cleared like a wide open cutback lane on a run play. I have my doubts about his long term viability as a kick returner. If other people feel more confident in him that way, that's OK too. That's an opinion. But when we start to talk about the particulars, speeds, who would've caught who, can you visually see the difference between a 4.3 guy and a 4.6 guy, etc...that all is a little less opinion and breaks down a little more into the realm of analysis where you can demonstrate your case one way or another pretty strongly.
You guys saying you can't tell the difference between 4.3 speed and 4.6 speed are smoking something good. Mike Wallace 4.33 Davone Bess 4.64 pro day Brandon Marshall 4.52 If you can't tell the difference between Wallace when he runs and even Brandon Marshall at 4.52 you guys ... well I think you've just staked some ground and are sticking with it.
He needs to be taken off returns asap. A downgrade from Thigpen. He has been ordinary as WR. A downgrade from pre-injury Gibson.
But we knew Landry was slow coming out.. Trying to quantify the dynamics of what 3/10ths of a second mean in terms of overall ability relative to returning kicks is silly. A faster guy might not have made the same move to get to point b.
Also, didn't he have to break his stride to avoid the kicker or another last line of defense guy? That cost him some yardage too.
You know this has actually been a pretty cool sports science debate..lol I think when you talked about the velocity of the football in a throw..I was able to really get what you were saying. You can tell when someone is "spinning" a football...is just looks like its a dart...as opposed to a Jay Fiedler pass that had some arc on it. Even more...remembering back to baseball...when someone playing 3rd base with an arm throws over to 1st...there is a very visible difference in how the ball gets there as opposed to maybe someone with a weaker arm. Its probably not that much if you were to time it....but you can def tell.
What are the odds he was flat out flying....happened to look over and catch Ms. Sambuca's *** in the stands and slowed a bit to get a better look. Its killing me...that ***. MFG.
I can't stand him as a returner, way too mistake prone. I cringe every time he's back there. He doesn't look natural back there, stop using him as a returner, its obvious its not his game. As a receiver I think he's doing fine for a rook, I think he'll be a good player for us for a long time but never a great one.
That's the other thing I mentioned. His mistakes as a punt returner translate to the kick return side. Just because he hasn't fumbled or muffed a kick return yet doesn't mean he is for some reason immune to such mistakes on the kick return side whereas he's prone to them on the punt return side.
