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jets December to Remember

Discussion in 'AFC East Rivals' started by GARDENHEAD, Nov 30, 2010.

  1. BicketyBam

    BicketyBam No Fist Pumps Allowed

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    I have a hard time using last year's stats as a barometer. He was a true first year rookie and two of his worst games were in NFL start #6 and #10. And how do you explain his stats for the games where it was under 20 degrees? His QBR for the year was 63. In games that year where the wind chill temp was under 20 degrees, his QBR was 74.2. So do we say he plays better in frigid conditions? I wouldn't.

    Based on sample size and the fact that he was an NFL rookie, I really don't think you can draw any conclusions about how he plays in cold weather. If anything, I would be more inclined to look at this year where he was an overall QBR of 81.9 and a QBR of 81.1 in cold weather games (temp with wind chill 40 or below) and say he play the same.
     
  2. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    As long as he's not airing it out down the field every game, Sanchez should be fine IMO. Some Jets fan will disagree with me but he still hasn't showed me that he can throw the ball well down the field. The guy was McNabb-like every time I watched him in college.
     
  3. BicketyBam

    BicketyBam No Fist Pumps Allowed

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    I went to NFL.com to the Jets schedule. Then I clicked on the final score of the games to bring up the game page. If you then download (or open) the playbook (in .pdf format) it tell you temp, wind chill, wind and general conditions (cloudy, sunny, etc.). This is what I have:

    Start # Opponent Temp Wind Chill
    6 Buf 2009 44 30
    10 NE 2009 45 40
    13 ATL 2009 29 18
    15 CIN 2009 20 4
    16 CIN 2009 21 9
    27 CLE 2010 46 39
    29 CIN 2010 39 39
     
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  4. BicketyBam

    BicketyBam No Fist Pumps Allowed

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    You'll get no argument from me.

    I never saw him play in college. Growing up in NY, I never watch college football....not even the big bowl games. Did Sanchez throw downfield a lot in college?
     
  5. GreenMachine

    GreenMachine New Member

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    7 TDs

    I guess rushing TDS do not count to phins fans
     
  6. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    When a person is mentioning how many TD's a QB has and doesn't clarify that they are talking about both rushing and passing TD's and when they leave off a HUGE QB stat such as completion percentage that person is either being intentionally misleading or fails to understand how QB's are judged.

    Which are you?
     
  7. BicketyBam

    BicketyBam No Fist Pumps Allowed

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    I remember Bill Parcells when he was with the Jets saying that he judged QB's by how successful they were in leading the team to the endzone. That always stuck with me.
     
  8. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    And that's crap. If a QB hands the ball off 12 times in a row and they score a TD does that mean the QB is "successful"? IMO it means they have a pretty damn good running game and the QB was good enough to not fumble the snap.
     
  9. BicketyBam

    BicketyBam No Fist Pumps Allowed

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    Take it up with Parcells. I am just telling you what he said.
     
  10. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    lol... Coaches say a lot of things in order to defend themselves. Did you just throw that quote out there because you thought it was neat or did you quote him because you believe that statement? ;)
     
  11. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Yeah they took shots down field but he often was off the mark by throwing it too strong. Similar to what McNabb does.
     
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  12. BicketyBam

    BicketyBam No Fist Pumps Allowed

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    A little bit of both. I think leading the team to points is one of the criteria that should be used in evaluating a QB, along with the other stats. Obviously it shouldn't be the sole criteria. Your example points out where a QB could "lead" his team to 7 points without throwing a pass. Conversely, in an extreme example, a QB could start every drive at his own 20, throw 6 passes for 60 yards to move the team to the opposing 20, and then uncork 3 knucleballs and have to settle for a FG attempt. In this unprobable example, let's say the team's kicker is someone crappy - like Nick Folk ;) and over the course of the game this happens 6 times and the kicker misses 3 FG's. 9 points scored, 36/54 for 360 yards 0/0 QBR of 85.4. Did the QB play well?

    Anyway, I see your point. I just think you need to add how successful the team is at scoring TD's into the mix. Sole criteria? No. An important one? Yes. Sparano must have felt the same way, because based on Henne's season stats leading up to the benching, he certainly didn't deserve it based on QBR. It was more than adequate. Do you not agree?
     
  13. BicketyBam

    BicketyBam No Fist Pumps Allowed

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    I'd thank you, but the button went MIA again :D
     
  14. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Not necessary. :)

    He ran a simplified WCO at USC and they threw a lot of come back routes as well as shallow crosses. They attacked vertically too at times but Sanchez was not great at it IMO. However, he was incredibly accurate on short to intermediate throws and what I liked was that he could throw on the roll out in both directions. I really liked him coming out and thought he was the best QB.
     
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  15. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    I agree to a point. However, IMO, the best way to judge a QB is to look at all of his personal stats. When you start factoring team accomplishments or only consider a few certain stats the outlook of the QB or the actual performance of the QB starts to become highly skewed.

    In your example, 36/54 (66%), 360yds and 0/0, a QB played extremely well. I think it was you who I told that I consider a QBR of over 80 (in today's era) to be a very good rating. And your example is one of the reasons as to why I feel this way. When Sporano benched Henne I was 100% against it and said as much. I think I was proven right in that assessment after what went down after Henne was benched.

    In summary, a QB plays as well as his stats show he plays. However, you can't cherry pick those stats and come to any type of a legit conclusion. Of course sometimes a TD pass was more luck (tipped) than skill or an INT was 100% NOT the QB's fault, but if you consider ALL of the stats from ALL of the QB's those things will even out across the board.
     
  16. GreysonWinfield

    GreysonWinfield Release The Hounds

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    I don't give a rats *** if its under 40 or over 90 just hope the ****ers lose out.
     
  17. BicketyBam

    BicketyBam No Fist Pumps Allowed

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    My bottom line is that to truly evaluate a QB, you need to watch him play as much as possible. I don't think statistics tell the whole story and here is why. There are too many plays that do not reflect accurately in the stat line (or reflect at all). Examples.

    A) In FG range, the QB is immediately pressured and is able to evade the rush, throw the ball away, and avoid the sack that would have taken the team out of FG range. On paper, it is an incompletion...a negative statistic. But in reality, it was an excellent play by the QB.

    B) QB throw a ball right to a defender who flat out drops it. It goes down as an incomplete pass, but without seeing the play you would never know if it was a pass a receiver just dropped, a throw out of bounds, or what it actually was - a should have been INT.

    C) QB throws a complete pass to a TE for 25 yards. However, he never looked at the WR who streaked past a fallen defender and was wide open for a gimmie TD. Stats say it was a 25 yard completion. Everyone watching the game sees it was a missed TD. There is no stat for that.

    D) QB throw a poorly placed 10 yard slant. Receiver makes an excellent grab, breaks 3 tackles and races 70 yards to pay dirt. Looks like a 70 yard bomb in the box score, but it was a mediocre to poor throw by the QB.

    E) QB hold the ball forever and takes a sack. Most people look at sacks and attribute it to lousy line play. So a QB can have a day where he has an excellent completion %, but never throws the ball away and takes 6 sacks. Without watching the game, how do you know it was the QB's fault?

    Anyway, I could go on, but you get the point. I truly believe that a QB can have a good stat day and have a bad game, and vice versa. There have been QB's that would have games where they were mediocre all day, and put then team on his back for a final game winning drive. His final stat line was pedestrian, but people at the game will say he won the game.

    I see your points - I hope you see mine.
     
  18. PS17

    PS17 NYJ 2010!!!

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    Just read through the thread. What a stupid goddamn argument. I mean really.
     
  19. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    Not as stupid as this post.

    Anyone who thinks weather isn't a factor in football and doesn't affect the way certain players perform has to be football illiterate.
     
  20. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    You left out one very small but important fact 2 losses and only 1 win!:sidelol:
     
  21. GreenMachine

    GreenMachine New Member

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    So it was Sanchez's fault Ginn ran back 2 returns..

    Oh wait.. Kick returns are "lucky"
     
  22. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    inching to 100k posts
    Well, after the patriots are done with kicking one's butt, and they shall, then we travel to NJ, or Giants stadium, or wherever you guys are playing, and indeed, it shall be "game on" and gosh, no moron Wr shall be available to fumble the ball in FG range, and no idiot Defensive player will be there to draw a timely late hit flag, nor facemask call.
     
  23. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    LOL! Not as lucky as the Jests have been in 4 of their wins this season.
     
  24. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    You know, I would thank this post but you butchered a non-word.
     
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  25. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    LOL, first thing I laughed at when he typed it too. Bickety is one of the better ones...but he tossed the IR in there, I could understand the typo via keyboard and phone...just fun to tease him, regardless of his intent:tongue2:.
     
  26. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    lol...It's like when people say or write "I was "conversating" with so and so" and are trying to sound intelligent. haha
     
  27. BicketyBam

    BicketyBam No Fist Pumps Allowed

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  28. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    Only if you promise to never use that word again.
     
  29. BicketyBam

    BicketyBam No Fist Pumps Allowed

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    I'm a New Yorker. I can't help it.
     
  30. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    The first step is admitting you have a problem....
     
  31. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    You were saying? ;)
     
  32. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    Hahhahhahhahahhahahhhahahha
     
  33. Dolphins1Beatles

    Dolphins1Beatles Ziggy Stardust

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    Come on guys, it wouldn't be a season if Dolphins and Jets fans weren't arguing about which team sucks more while the Patriots keep winning and the Bills keep failing. :up:

    I think the Dolphins will win next week, but then lose to the Bills after that. If they lose to the Jets, they'll go on and beat the Bills and Lions then lose to the Patriots.

    I'm just wondering if the Jets will suffer another major collapse. We'll see, they got a tough schedule playing the Dolphins at home which is worse than playing them at the Sun Life horror house, then @Pitt, @Chicago. I hope the Dolphins beat the Jets just because WFAN will be so funny if they do.
     
  34. Pagan

    Pagan Metal & a Mustang

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    Hey...maybe now the NY papers can stop using the word "swagger" to describe the Jets every goddamn chance they get.
     
  35. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    Its still funny.
     
  36. Darrelle Revis

    Darrelle Revis I BELIEVE!

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    This is pure laughable. Mark Sanchez doesn't play well in the cold? Please offer a link to prove your points.
     
  37. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    You of all people shouldn't be calling out ANYBODY.

    I am convinced that you are bad luck for the jets.

    keep posting wild proclamations. It's working.
     
  38. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    45... 3. Ouch.
     
  39. Pagan

    Pagan Metal & a Mustang

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    45-3
     
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  40. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    [​IMG]
     

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