Jim H to Jets/Phins Rumours and News Thread

https://www.thephinsider.com/2018/12/24/18154664/sources-miami-dolphins-stephen-ross-prepared-to-make-run-at-jim-harbaugh-come-back-to-the-nfl

And now Hyde is saying the reverse:

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-sp-hyde-dolphins-harbaugh-20181224-story.html

"The New York Jets want to hire Jim Harbaugh, as multiple reports say they’re making a run at the Michigan coach.

But the Miami Dolphins, who might also have been considered a possible landing spot for the Michigan coach, won’t go after him, a team source said.

Dolphins owner Steve Ross has respected Harbaugh for years and has a good relationship with him. But he won’t consider hiring Harbaugh to the Dolphins, in part because of Ross’ relationship with Michigan, the source said

Ross is an alum and big booster of Michigan. The school’s business school is named for him."

Possible reconciliation of both reports:

Ross won't pursue Harbaugh to bring him out of Michigan, but if he DOES decide to leave anyway, then Ross will seek to lock him down in Miami...

What are your thoughts on JH? Would you be happy if we snagged him?

Hyde updated the story to quote Ross:

"“I know and respect Jim Harbaugh, but with my relationship with Michigan I would not have an interest in hiring him,’’ Ross said in a text.

A source initially said the Dolphins would not go after Harbaugh. Ross then confirmed it."

And Cannata responds:

"M story earlier today said that John Harbaugh would be a target for Ross if he wanted to jump to the NFL. Ross wants Harbaugh to stay at Michigan and won't ask him to leave to come to Miami. But, things change if Harbaugh is willing to sign with the Jets."

"Surfs Up 99 wrote:

What are your thoughts on JH? Would you be happy if we snagged him?

I'm not sure. He's been successful in college, but it's not exactly the same thing. If his heart isn't 100% in it either, then that might not be a good thing.

Having a proven HC is maybe the major difference - someone who knows what the job entails and how to manage it.

I think getting the right HC is maybe the most important decision. It impacts everything. I don't know enough to have very strong convictions about the right candidate. As someone else as had, I echo that, being able to develop talent and use talent wisely is maybe the biggest key to sustained success. So I hope Ross can see that and build it. Can Harbaugh do that? I don't know.

"Galant wrote:

I'm not sure. He's been successful in college, but it's not exactly the same thing. If his heart isn't 100% in it either, then that might not be a good thing.

Having a proven HC is maybe the major difference - someone who knows what the job entails and how to manage it.

I think getting the right HC is maybe the most important decision. It impacts everything. I don't know enough to have very strong convictions about the right candidate. As someone else as had, I echo that, being able to develop talent and use talent wisely is maybe the biggest key to sustained success. So I hope Ross can see that and build it. Can Harbaugh do that? I don't know.

I think Ross is really in a pickle. I know he is not happy with the direction of the team, and the fan base is becoming more and more vocal. Hearing the fans boo Gase, Tannehill, and the rest of the team off the field yesterday has got to be one of the worst feelings he could experience as the owner. I know he is trying his best to put a good product on the field and by all measures it has been a failure. My concern is who is out there that we could hire? If we go with a new HC will he be able to bring in a quality staff? I think that is something that has hurt Gase. The guy can only do so much, and if you coaching staff can't get it done then it hurts the whole team. Conversely, if you go with a an old retread he might be able to get a more experienced staff, but why is he available if he's any good? This is a tough one.

"Galant wrote:

I'm not sure. He's been successful in college, but it's not exactly the same thing.

Wait what?? Jim Harbaugh would be fantastic! San Fran was a below average team, winning 6.5 games per season in the 4 years before Harbaugh (5, 7, 8 and 6 wins from 2007-2010) then Harbaugh comes in and you have 13, 11, 12, 8 wins plus 3 trips to the conference championships including one trip to the SB. What happens after he leaves? SFO has 5, 2, 6 and 4 wins in the 4 years afterwards.

The guy proved his mettle in the NFL about as good as one could.

"cbrad wrote:

Wait what?? Jim Harbaugh would be fantastic! San Fran was a below average team, winning 6.5 games per season in the 4 years before Harbaugh (5, 7, 8 and 6 wins from 2007-2010) then Harbaugh comes in and you have 13, 11, 12, 8 wins plus 3 trips to the conference championships including one trip to the SB. What happens after he leaves? SFO has 5, 2, 6 and 4 wins in the 4 years afterwards.

The guy proved his mettle in the NFL about as good as one could.

Wasn't saying he wouldn't be good. Just that there are no guarantees.

"Surfs Up 99 wrote:

I think Ross is really in a pickle. I know he is not happy with the direction of the team, and the fan base is becoming more and more vocal. Hearing the fans boo Gase, Tannehill, and the rest of the team off the field yesterday has got to be one of the worst feelings he could experience as the owner. I know he is trying his best to put a good product on the field and by all measures it has been a failure. My concern is who is out there that we could hire? If we go with a new HC will he be able to bring in a quality staff? I think that is something that has hurt Gase. The guy can only do so much, and if you coaching staff can't get it done then it hurts the whole team. Conversely, if you go with a an old retread he might be able to get a more experienced staff, but why is he available if he's any good? This is a tough one.

FWIW I don't think Gase is gone this year. I think Tannehill is more likely than Gase. Beyond that, I think it's still possible Tannehill stays around, one more year, and the Dolphins plan to move on long term - build around Gase - use Tannehill has a hold over. I mean, they seem to like hold-overs who know the system.

"Galant wrote:

Wasn't saying he wouldn't be good. Just that there are no guarantees.

There are no guarantees with any coach so that's not saying much. But among the candidates available JH is more of a "hell YEAH!" given what he did rather than a "maybe he might work out maybe not".

I know this is a Harbaugh thread but I just don’t see him leaving Michigan. With that being said, and at risk of hijacking this thread, I wonder if the following has been considered...

Asking Nick Saban, “what did we as an organization do wrong during your tenure here and what would it take to bring you back?”

Could it result in Saban 2.0? Maybe...maybe not but there’s no denying we had the HOTTEST coach in the country and WE lost him by taking Culpepper over Brees. When that revelation came to light, that Saban wanted Brees and he was over ruled, I forgave “Satan” instantly

"cbrad wrote:

There are no guarantees with any coach so that's not saying much. But among the candidates available JH is more of a "hell YEAH!" given what he did rather than a "maybe he might work out maybe not".

Sure. However, even prior NFL success is no guarantee. It's only his first year back but Gruden may prove to be a cautionary tale.

538 had a piece on something similar - dug it up - https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/do-retread-coaches-like-jon-gruden-ever-work-out/

"Surfs Up 99 wrote:

I think Ross is really in a pickle. I know he is not happy with the direction of the team, and the fan base is becoming more and more vocal. Hearing the fans boo Gase, Tannehill, and the rest of the team off the field yesterday has got to be one of the worst feelings he could experience as the owner. I know he is trying his best to put a good product on the field and by all measures it has been a failure. My concern is who is out there that we could hire? If we go with a new HC will he be able to bring in a quality staff? I think that is something that has hurt Gase. The guy can only do so much, and if you coaching staff can't get it done then it hurts the whole team. Conversely, if you go with a an old retread he might be able to get a more experienced staff, but why is he available if he's any good? This is a tough one.

That's why I mentioned developing talent. Try to find things that are/have been consistent. Who has been able to produce more with less? Who has shown an ability to adapt schemes etc?

Not that it's easy, but those are traits I'd be looking for whether in a re-tread or new NFL-level coach.

"Galant wrote:

Sure. However, even prior NFL success is no guarantee. It's only his first year back but Gruden may prove to be a cautionary tale.

538 had a piece on something similar - dug it up - https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/do-retread-coaches-like-jon-gruden-ever-work-out/

That piece talks about coming back after a decade or more away, doesn't apply here. Furthermore, the proper comparison is success rate of coaches that come back (say after 4-5 years) vs. new HC's. Without a comparison like that you have no baseline because most HC's fail regardless of whether they're new hires or retreads.

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

Asking Nick Saban, “what did we as an organization do wrong during your tenure here and what would it take to bring you back?”

Could it result in Saban 2.0? Maybe...maybe not but there’s no denying we had the HOTTEST coach in the country and WE lost him by taking Culpepper over Brees. When that revelation came to light, that Saban wanted Brees and he was over ruled, I forgave “Satan” instantly

I wouldn't be against Saban 2.0 either. Don't know if we'll ever know the whole story there, but if his mind was set on coming back to the NFL I'd be for it (though I think this is so unlikely it's not worth debating).

"cbrad wrote:

That piece talks about coming back after a decade or more away, doesn't apply here. Furthermore, the proper comparison is success rate of coaches that come back (say after 4-5 years) vs. new HC's. Without a comparison like that you have no baseline because most HC's fail regardless of whether they're new hires or retreads.

Not sure the exact time frame is essential to the concept. But I agree with you, it's not the be all and end all. I'm just trying to explain why I'm not certain that Harbaugh would be a great coach for the Phins. In my eyes he'd be the best of the options available, but I'm just aware that I don't have tons of confidence in my eyes for this question.

Jets playing 3D chess trying to destroy us from within. Clever.

There's nothing I want in Miami more than a washed up NFL coach who definitely likes coaching in college more. That always ends well.

If we're on the hunt for college coaches, let's hire that guy from Alabama instead. His track record shows that he's a winner. Amazing coach. He's guaranteed to succeed in the NFL.

"Surfs Up 99 wrote:

What are your thoughts on JH? Would you be happy if we snagged him?

I dunno if I'd be happy to snag him but if he goes to the Jets it's going to be our worst nightmare. They have a young stud QB, draft picks and cap room and some pretty decent young talent already on the roster.

Harbaugh reminds me of coaches like Larry Brown and Billy Martin where they make immediate and very significant impacts. Downside is they will wear out their welcome quickly.

Also not sure if Harbaugh's personality is a good fit for up here. It might be more built for South Florida.

This will be interesting.

Jim would be fine, but he absolutely must hire a good OC. His offenses have struggled at Michigan and often seem to lack explosiveness and ingenuity.

That said, if he brings Don Brown along for defense that'd be a dang good hire.

I'd rather see another decade of Gase before I entertain the thought of fucking Saban. Fuck that guy.

"texanphinatic wrote:

Jim would be fine, but he absolutely must hire a good OC. His offenses have struggled at Michigan and often seem to lack explosiveness and ingenuity.

That said, if he brings Don Brown along for defense that'd be a dang good hire.

I'd rather see another decade of Gase before I entertain the thought of ****ing Saban. **** that guy.

The biggest part of the problem JH has had at Michigan is the lack of a quality QB. He finally got that this year in Patterson. Their run game has been outstanding during his tenure, it's his passing game that stunk.

That being said, I'd be surprised if he left Michigan for us, or NYJ

"I'm not going after Jim Harbaugh cuz Michigan derp." This is easily one of the dumbest owner's of this generation.

"texanphinatic wrote:

I'd rather see another decade of Gase before I entertain the thought of ****ing Saban. **** that guy.

I used to feel the same way about Saban until I discovered he wanted Drew Brees and was overruled, and forced to take Daunte Culpepper.

If I was Saban, I’d be pissed. You guys came to me, you wanted me. I wanted Brees and you’re telling me I can’t have what I want to be successful? Pfft, piss off Miami, I’ll go back to college ball where I can get the players I want.

Don’t be pissed at Saban, be pissed at EVERYONE that cost us Drew Brees