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Joe Philbin gave up on this game...

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by TheHighExhaulted, Sep 14, 2014.

  1. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Joe Philbin has a system? What is that exactly? What are the Dolphins doing that is cutting edge? Be specific.

    Even assuming that your characterization is correct (which I am extremely dubious of), what good is a system if you can't develop players to execute? What players has Philbin developed? The top-10 QB hasn't shown improvement. The OL they've drafted have either quit the team all together or haven't shown improvement.
     
  2. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Cowardly football. May you never be our head coach. No offense.
     
  3. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral Staff Member

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    well I don't think either one of us would last a season :wink2:
     
  4. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    The Miami Dolphins had -6.73 expected points on passing plays in the first half. The passing game literally so bad it gave the Bills a touchdown. Joe Philbin is (relatively) smart for realizing this and not letting them pass at the end of the half.

    The Miami Dolphins had -6.73 expected points on passing plays in the first half. The passing game literally so bad it gave the Bills a touchdown. Joe Philbin is a bad head for having such a poor passing game.
     
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  5. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I don't see how this constitutes cowardly. Sitting on the ball brings much more criticism. It would be cowardly to refuse to self-evaluate.
     
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  6. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    It's cowardly because it declares that the game is already over and the team should just do whatever it can to tick down the clock without making it worse.

    Statistically through two games, Miami does not fit the profile of a playoff team. They should forfeit the rest of their games and prepare for next year.
     
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  7. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    It declares the half is over. And yes, dropping back to pass was making it worse. The numbers support it. There were some serious deficiencies, and presumably they made adjustments at half, because the passing game went from deplorable/dumpster-fire to average/slightly below-average in the second half.

    Joe Philbin absolutely deserves criticism and has no real argument for his continued employment, but really I don't see this as cowardly. If anything, its an inherent admission by Philbin that he's failed at one of his primary responsibilities. At least he is honest in his self-assessment.
     
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  8. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    The system is WCO with added IZR this year, and some misdirection.

    RT is better than any QB we've drafted since Marino. We have 2 QBs who can play in this system.
    OL is drastically improved, and OL is done. We also have have a bunch of young guys, Turner will be a beast on the Oline. James is excellent. So, I disagree with you on that. If you are hinting on Ireland's draft last year, forget about that. He was an idiot, that saga is over, thank you Philbin!

    As far as developing players, the key here is to have a consistent system from game to game. We failed on that yesterday, coaches failed. They did not run and they passed 53 times. That's a failure of a young rookie OC. But the key is to have consistent balanced playcalling so that players can be consistently improved.

    This team is not a finished product, and talent should get better, playcalling, execution should get better. We don't have strong RBs, we still have Hartline as a starting WR, this dude is no threat. He shuld be cut, I don't think he could start at any of our division opponents, yet he is starting for us because Ireland gave him the money. And we still carry a couple more guys like that from Ireland, like Wheeler and Ellerbe.

    I don't like Hickey because he has shown to be in Ireland's mold, he drafts to be good, not great. When you pass on Dez for Odrick, or Benjamin for James, you are an idiot, an assclown. So that needs to improve. We had a chance to draft Carlos Hyde, we need monster RBs, yet Hickey decided to move out of the 2nd rd spot only to use that move up in the 3rd rd. He is an idiot.
    And Lazor is another idiot for playcalling a game like he did yesterday. But I am more confident abut Lazor getting it than I am about Hickey, especially now with this signing of Daniel Thomas. We cut him because he could not make the 53, now he signed him to save the season.
     
  9. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Gameplan for the next game: Take a knee on the opening possession

    lol.


    Seriously though, between the QB's shaky play and the Head Coaches lack of courage and confidence in his own team, there is no leadership there.

    Yet we beat the Pats. Baffling.
     
  10. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral Staff Member

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    well, its a good thing the Bills didn't get the ball back at the end of that first half. We wouldn't have had the opportunity to get as close as we did.
     
  11. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    This constitutes cutting-edge? Really?

    Statistically, he's no better than Chad Henne.
     
  12. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    With three time outs I had no problem mixing in some run. However I didn't like giving up completely after the runs were successful.
     
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  13. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    1. Yes, in the NFL it does. 2. Maybe, but his 8-8 is better, his athleticism is better, he can roll and throw better. That makes him better.
     
  14. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Philbin has a 16-18 record as a head coach for the Dolphins. In what universe does that equate to a winning systems?

    To you Philbin may be untouchable, but if he doesn't get this team to the playoffs this season, he will be an untouchable former HC of the Dolphins.
     
  15. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I respect your opinion, but neither of these arguments are compelling. Inside zone has been around for a long time. Schematically theres nothing going on here that hasn't happened previously around the league. The difference is the players don't execute well.

    You're essentially saying that one skill that Tannehill possess makes him a better QB, despite the actual data suggesting otherwise. Tannehill's athleticism hasn't actually manifested itself in the results.
     
  16. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Agreed. I'm not in panic mode yet. For what its worth a lot of good QBs have started fairly slow this season. Drew Brees even looks like a mediocre QB. There is plenty of time to right the ship, but if this is foreshadows the rest of the season Philbin and Tannehill should be gone.
     
  17. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    Teams are not running it, around the league, in any significant number. We ran that stuff all game, left and right, unbalanced formation, against the Pats. It was one of the most refreshing things to see last week. It was like watching Oregon's offense.

    Tannehill had a chance to make playoffs last year. Chad Henne never threatened playoffs. The team was lost all season with him. Yes, RT is better than Henne.
     
  18. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    I used to agree with many of his points at first, but lately he has gone completely off the wall. He said Philbin should keep his job regardless of the team's record because of his "innovative" offense that ranked 26th and 27th in points. He said Jordy Nelson isn't any good.
     
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  19. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    It is cowardly. Philbin is a bad coach. Its also still an indictment of how bad the offense is that he made that decision. There are days I hate this team and I wonder why I still watch, and this poop show is a prime example.
     
  20. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Yes, plenty of teams run the inside-zone regularly. Ravens, Seahawks, Texans, Cardinals, Bengals, Bears...I'm pretty sure the Saints still run it. I could go on. Inside zone by no means is some type of new concept.

    Hell, Dan Henning ran a lot of that stuff with Pat White.

    Henne was as close to the playoffs as Tannehill was last season. These are also pretty nebulous things to cite "threatened the playoffs" isn't really some type of indicator of success.
     
  21. PSG

    PSG Clear Eyes. Full Hearts.

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    We will go nowhere as long as we have Philbin as HC.
    Coaches scared all the time.
     
  22. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Wow, now the comparisons for Tannehill come down to whether or not he is better than Henne. If that is truly how we are expected to determine if Tannehill is capable of being the long term answer for the Dolphins at the QB position. Hopefully Hickey is already doing everything he can to determine what QB will be available when the Dolphins have their first pick in next years draft.

    Henne was one of the worst QB's in the history of the Dolphins and the fact there is even a discussion of who is better, Henne or Tannehill, clearly shows that Tannehill just hasn't progressed very far as an NFL QB up to now.
     
  23. Pee Sprinkles

    Pee Sprinkles New Member

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    Up until yesterday's game i was not jumping on the "Philbin Out" or "Bring in Matt Moore" bandwagon..but that series really opened my eyes to the type of leadership and philosophy in the Dolphins organization.

    True, the offence was playing poorly at that moment but the simple fact was they LEFT POINTS OUT ON THE FIELD. Whilst they were LOSING.

    Yes the worst could have happened like a Tannehil pick six..but surely you must show confidence in your supposed franchise quarterback to get you out of a losing predicament or....if not...why is he your franchise quarterback?

    Tannehill's addmitance that he agreed with Philbin's decision to run time down is shocking and saddening in equal measures. It shows he has no confidence in his own ability, or in his teammates ability to make plays and score points. Simply Philbin and Tannehill displayed a losers mentality right there.

    So frustrated.
     
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  24. DOLPHAN1

    DOLPHAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

    just to play devils advocate, it could have been a gauntlet thrown down to see how the offense responded. they did not pick it as we have to unanimously have suggested that Marino most certainly would. the offense is clearly lost at his point.
     
  25. jpep13

    jpep13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Andrew abramson on twitter

    Philbin on clock: Last thing I wanted to do was go into halftime down 16-0. I told Bill I wanted to run every single play.



    On end of 1st half clock, Philbin said he wasn't worried about team throwing INT. He was worried about 3-and-out and Bills getting ball back
     
  26. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's nonsense. They might have gone 3 and out running the ball too.
     
  27. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Based on their first half performance, it was much more likely they would have moved the ball running, than passing.
     
  28. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    But then why the sense of urgency at THE END OF THE GAME?

    Sent from my LG-MS770 using Tapatalk
     
  29. LI phinfan

    LI phinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Tannehill understood Philbin's decision. He most certainly DID NOT agree with it. That is all on Joe.
     
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  30. Not Since 73

    Not Since 73 Guest

    Mallett > Tannehill
     
  31. Not Since 73

    Not Since 73 Guest

    Garoppolo > Mallett
     
  32. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think you're looking into it too much here about Tannehill. I'd have to assume he didn't agree with it. Any competitor wouldn't agree with it. They were playing terribly though, however Tannehill isn't going to throw his head coach under the bus in post game interviews if that's indeed what he did (I didn't listen to any post game stuff yesterday)
     
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  33. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    That's terrible analysis based on small sample size.
     
  34. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    It absolutely is a small sample size. But what else is there to work with? If you're handicapping what to expect on a passing play from the Miami Dolphins in Buffalo, what are looking at?

    At that point, what had Miami's pass game done over their last 6 quarters in Buffalo? This isn't a joke; they had 102 net-yards on 55 pass plays. That is < 2 yards NY/A. That isn't even Pat White bad. Daniel Thomas running the ball does better than that.
     
  35. Dolphans Unite!

    Dolphans Unite! Banned

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    I suspect what's bothering people about this particular issue is that it's an implicit admission by Philbin that, at least in the kind of game played yesterday, he didn't have a quarterback he could win with at that point in the game.

    During the year in which just about every Dolphins fan is desperate to see Ryan Tannehill move to the next level and make the team highly competitive, having the head coach admit such a thing in only the second game of the year is deeply disturbing.

    What we want instead is a Dan Marino, who can move the team up and down the field at will, and we had nothing of the sort yesterday and haven't had it in over a decade. Coming to terms with the further improbability of that being Ryan Tannehill, as well, is disturbing, and that's what we all got to experience yesterday.
     
  36. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    This entire question assumes the need to use data in order to project a (weak) trend and make a drastic, very out of the ordinary decision based on that (weak) trend. There doesn't HAVE to be a trend visible, and you don't HAVE to make an extreme decision based on this trend which may or may not exist.

    That is a fallacy.

    You go where the data leads you to go. If the data is not valid it's not valid and you don't make extraordinary decisions based on it just because "what else was I supposed to go on?"

    You don't go on anything. You do what 10,000 coaches have done before you. You use your timeouts and the two minute warning to try and push the ball up the field and get a score before halftime, drawing the game to within one score and giving you the chance to make up that score on the very first drive of the second half.
     
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  37. UK Fins Fan

    UK Fins Fan Member

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    Is this team good enough to go 8-8 this year? If we can do that again, I think we're on the right track. Consistency matters, even in mediocrity!
     
  38. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Have we ever won a game on the road in a crazy environment like the Bills' had yesterday besides the Pittsburgh game? We are 6-11 on the Road ever since Philbin took over the team.. I'm starting to wonder if Tannehill folds under intense crowd noise..
     
  39. Dolphans Unite!

    Dolphans Unite! Banned

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    I think what you're arguing is that there is a low base rate of the kinds of events Philbin was trying to avoid (INTs, sacks, fumbles, a string of incomplete passes that stop the clock, etc.), and so it doesn't make sense to try to avoid things that have such a low probability of occurring.

    That, though, brings us back to the idea that Philbin may have realized he simply has no offensive firepower he can count on, and so he was avoiding a second half in which his team was potentially down further on the scoreboard, even less able to come back and win.

    Again, the choice to end the first half I think was a reflection of Philbin's belief in his own team's lack of offensive firepower more than anything else, and with the way the team is functioning right now, I'm not sure you can blame him. We're an awfully long way from having the "Dan Marino" offense we all want.
     
  40. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I don't know if that's a trend or not.

    But I will say this. It does seem to be a trend that this team has issues managing the upside. Managing the downside is a thing but so too is managing the upside. How do you approach the game when you've won and confidence levels are high? Do you get lax? Are you still able to generate emotional content from a position of dominance?

    Miami has never been good at that under Joe Philbin. The only very brief exception I can think of is a short period when the team was being collectively shat upon by every news agency in the United States, regardless of whether they specialized in sports or not, due to the Jonathan Martin scandal. For that brief period, Miami was able to keep hold of their fire even as they won. They played with emotional energy every week. The clock struck twelve when they realized they were in "win and in" playoff position. Suddenly they went deer in headlights.
     

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