When Beck was drafted there were videos posted of him that looked very impressive, in college play. He came to the NFL with an adjusting but still inconsistent at times O line, a revolving door running game, tight ends that did not block well, wide receivers that were very, VERY inconsistent. Brohm and or whoever else is no guarantee not to do just as Beck did. A superstar in college will not necessarily be a star in the NFL specially with a poor supporting cast. He has potential. He should not be judged entirely when not given the proper tools to do the job. Ginn seems to be improving but has far to go. Otherwise our receiver core is average at best. Look at Johnson from the Bengals or any of the Pats receivers or any high caliber receivers in the league. They get separation they come back when plays break down and most importantly they CATCH THE BALL. Miami's receivers have dropped so many catch-able passes from all of the QBs this year I would guess they set a record of some kind. It takes a complete team not just a star QB. Give him the tools then judge him. I am not saying he is the answer but I do believe he has potential. I am saying there is no QB coming out of college that would be guaranteed do much if any better with the current Dolphins team.
You all have no proof of any of this 1) John did not practice with the first teamers this week 2) John's first Touchdown drive did not take place in garbage time, the second one is debatable.
lets just all put our collective energies together and pray that beck is the future, if he is an NFL QB the turnaround will be alot faster guys
Yes Russell has an arm, but so do most of the other QB's in the NFL. Beck proved today that he can make the throws. He just needed the time and confidence to do it. That doesnt make him a great QB, but we wanted to see something from him which I thought we did.
Dont forget Drew Brees and Brett Favre. Of course ten years ago the number was double and ten years before that it was even more. The 6'2" quarterback has officially been put on the endagered species list. Only the best of the best will be given a shot. Hopefully Beck can rise to the occasion
You're right. At this stage its all about potential. His potential will be judged against teh potential of the QBs coming out. If there is more potential in the QBs coming out they will be considered. Would you want it any other way
You never change that guys mind. Anyone who expects rookies not to struggle especially on this team is a [mod]inappropriate comment[/mod] Let's compare how the other Rookie Qb's did today! Trent Edwards 16/33 for 133yds 4.4 average 0 tds Jamarcus Russell 23/31 223yds 1 td 1 int Troy Smith 16/27 171 1 td John Beck 13/21 135yds 1 td 1 rushing td They are all rookies. Anyone with [mod] inappropriate comment[/mod]realize how much information and time is required for a young qb to develope. There is so much information to process in a small amount of time. Not to mention our receivers can't get any seperation or our line cant hold their blocks long enough.
you cant judge Beck on this miserable season. that said, im not sure Beck is a great answer anyway. maybe we'll suck again, and get a shot at Tebow.
Using that paradigm then 4 years ago QB's were 5'6" tall.................that might put a hole in that theory.............or the fact that the guy better be 6'8" tall in 30 years or he won't make it...............is this basketball?
Parcells will probably bring a guy like Penningotn in and have a QB battle in camp and the starter will be who performs better between the Mystery QB and Beck. Beck showed some maturity after his big mistake and he does throw a nice ball, but Cam handled him real bad and hopefully it did not affect him as a QB. With Ron Wolfe and Pracells taking notes if they think this kid is the real deal, they will more then likely give him a chance to start. I personally hope Beck is the future.
The paradigm I'm using is that every position gets bigger every twenty years. Care to prove me wrong go ahead. Make a list of the QB starters in 2007 list their height and weight and compare it to the QB starters of 1987
You dont make sense now because Beck wont be playing in 2027 and there are a fair share of starting QB's that are 6'2".
Yes 25% of the starters are 6'2" or less. 40 years ago YA Tittle was considered a giant because he stood 6'0" . This isnt rocket science. In 10 years if trends continue 6'2" starting QBs will number approximately 10%. That doesnt even take into account whether they are good or not Second question. How many starting QBs are under 215lbs like Beck answer 8%
Drew Brees is 6'0" and 208. If size is what determines a Qbs ability then Beck should be 12.625% better than Drew Brees in 4 years...I'll take it! Some of the stuff used to make these arguments are ridiculous...If you are tall enough to see over the line, then the rest is determined by your ability to manage games, read defenses and make the throws. That is all Coaches want out of a Qb. You guys expect a guy to step in and instantly be a star.
well watching the saints game today, brees had atleast 5 balls batted down by d-lineman baldinger even made the comment 'brees, being so short, has always had a lot of balls knocked down' so, yes, height does have some effect on QBs. the degree of which it does is unknown, unless someone has some metrics regarding the number of passes batted down by QBs, and some sort of correlative data regarding the height of QBs and the height of the d-lines they face.
Is the end result a positive one for Drew Brees? Is he someone you would want as the Miami Quarterback? There are also Statistics out there to support an argument that Tom Brady isnt a great Qb, that he is a product of the system. All I care about is the end result. And the end result is that there are Qbs out there who are very successful even though they may only be 6'0".
So why do they have the combine? If all coaches and GMs wanted is how you play in the game wouldnt evaluation end after the senior bowl. Like it or not size matters in the NFL. So does speedI'm sure there is an offensive tackle coming out this year who has great heart but weighs 280. Guess what I dont want him. He could be the greatest tackle to ever play the game but I wouldnt want him. And Parcells said he has his protype size and measurables that every player has to fit for their position. Yes exceptions can be made but that's the first step of Parcells three step process. And guess what, Parcells likes them big. Will he make an exception for someone who can overcome his limitations. Sure. But that's the position Beck is in. He has to overcome his limitations
Duuuude...you missed the whole point. the game has changed but not the people...qb's were usually tall back then also. and still Pat Haden was a good qb at 5 10. And that was the after the era of the perfect dolphins. So I guess by your reasoning, the 72 dolphins weren't really squat compared with teams after the 70's I guess because it was a couple generations earlier. So why do we even discuss the 72 dolpins, because by the ridiculous reasoning you posted we should not even bring THEM up. The game, rules etc have changed but people did not grow taller since then just because it is generations later...that reasoning is as ridiculous as this thread bashing Beck. If you read my post at all instead of concentrating on trying to demean a member here, the whole point of it was that HEIGHT does NOT matter if the qb is smart and good. I was NOT debating the changes in the game of football.
O.K. in the interest of objectivity, this year I've seen a number of rookie QB's start games or at least get some playing time. The one which stood out as playing the worst just happened to be wearing a dolphins uniform. The guy that the Bills drafted played very well, Smith played well, even Brady looked good when he finally got on the field today. They all looked better than Beck has, they also all play on better teams, but he did not in any way stand out from the class of 2007 this year. Maybe next year will be different...
Well, your overall point is valid, I think. Bob Griese and Fran Tarkenton were about 6' and less than 200#s. On the other hand Terry Bradshaw and Roger Staubach were about 6'3. I'm looking at it as more of a weight thing rather than a height thing.
John Beck had one signature play, one that played over and over on the NFL Channel during talks about Parcells the day he was hired. They showed this play a 100 times. Beck against the Bills where he tired to pass the ball, it slips out INTO the hands of a Bills defender who takes it for a TD. And he comes this game and on his first play does close to the same thing giving up a TD. I'm not giving up on him but I would not mind us using a pick this year on one of several QB's, most being from the SEC.
I would only want the Phins to draft anther QB over Beck in April if the cost to risk ratio was reasonably low. I am not sure another 20 million + contract against the cap is worth a low first round QB pick. 2nd or 3rd fine. But I would like to see Beck get a shot with a better Dolphins team around him as well. Either way it goes we will have a ton of picks and a guy in the front office with a rep for making good decisions football personnel wise. QB is important but I don't want to see too much assets focused on that position with so many spots needing upgrade on the team. I don't want to see a new star QB fed to the wolves or shell shocked by losses due to dropped passes, bad protection, etc.
Jason Taylor isn't considered Prototype size for his position. Neither is Zach Thomas. I'm glad the powers that be were less concerned with the height and weight chart and actually looked at what kind of Football Skills those guys had. Otherwise, im sure we would have, at one time or another, brought in the 6'5", 245 lb Quarterback with the Rocket Arm and "can't miss" tag named Ryan Leaf.
and maybe our team is so bad because those powers that be were less concerned with measurables. of course you are going to find players that succeed despite their size. but its definitely a negative indicator
I really felt beck played well after that first fumble. I swear my heart dropped after that fumbled snap. I was thinking, "HELLO". Football 101 handle a snap. But then I also considered that beck had absolutely no practice time this week. If cam wasn't "fighting" for his job, and we all know he will be sent to the trash bin with the rest of these incompetent fools and players who have no heart and give up at the end. It takes the Tuna to show up, and then the O-line can block. Beck should have started this last game. The only reason he didn't start is because cam thinks lemon gives him the best chance to show off his coaching ability. Hello Cam, we have had 15 games to see that. And you are toast bud, toast. Collect your paycheck on the way out. Lemon gives us the best chance to win, AKA, best chance to show off my coaching skills so you dont fire me. Goodbye cam, Goodbye Mueller. Nice knowing you. Here is a cookie. Enjoy while the donkey gets the but.
Players that started this weekend 6’2†or smaller. Troy Smith Height: 6-0 Weight: 225 Charlie Batch Height: 6-2 Weight: 216 Tony Romo Height: 6-2 Weight: 224 (clearly not a Parcells QB) Kurt Warner Height: 6-2 Weight: 222 Tarvaris Jackson Height: 6-2 Weight: 232 Brodie Croyle Height: 6-2 Weight: 206 Kellen Clemens Height: 6-2 Weight: 223 Donovan McNabb Height: 6-2 Weight: 240 Cleo Lemon Height: 6-2 Weight: 215 Drew Brees Height: 6-0 Weight: 209 Jon Kitna Height: 6-2 Weight: 220 Brett Favre Height: 6-2 Weight: 222 (poor guy never be anything, too small) Sage Rosenfels Height: 6-2 Weight: 224 Please stop the madness. Beck is not too small.
he threw little 3 yard passes to booker,that booker turned ino nice gains. and had a qb sneak for a yard, and had a good drive with 2 minutes left, but it was when they game didn't matter anymore because it was already over. aginst the bengals he still hasn't made an impression as to where you can say that guy's going to be good. he still looks like a back up out there.
LOL. You just made my point. Zach was drafted in the 5th round and Jason Taylor was drafted in the 3rd for the very reasons you mentioned. Ryan Leaf was drafted, what 2nd overall? The first two, sometimes three rounds go to protype players and after that you start picking the best of the remainders. You think the first day is aboyut drafting the best overall players. No, its about projecting who may develop into the great players based on physical attributes that are based on prototypes for each position. Why do you think Troy Smith dropped the way he did last year? The guy won the heisman. Its because as far as the prototype of what coaches want the guy is a midget. He looked good and everyone's happy but players like Beck and Smith dont get as many chances as the Jeff Georges or Drew Hensons. Why do you think Henson keeps beinmg invited into camps. Its because he has prototype size. He's played as bad as Beck did his entire career and he's still bouncing around every year. I think the Jaguars invited him in when Leftwhich got dumped even though they didnt sign him. All based on prototype size. Now why would Henson still be getting invited if size and physical prototypes didnt matter You are arguing a point that Im not making. I never said Beck couldnt succeed. I just point out that the deck is stacked against him making it. And bringing in Parcells just made that harder for the kid
And how many of those are starters week one next year... 8 with a possibility of 5? That's 25% going down to 15% depending on whether Favre retires and Croyle and Jackson actually hold on to their starting roles. Read earlier post. I agree stop the madness
Stop arguing about the freaking size of the QB because it does not matter, PERIOD. The majority of QB's in this league are 6'2 - 6'3. What is the big freaking deal? I would take a smaller more accurate QB over a taller one any day. In the end height makes very little difference. Troy Smith fell in the draft because he was overrated as a Heisman. Smith looked great because he had Ted Ginn to throw bombs to every game. That is his claim to fame. Plus it didnt help getting blown out in the bowl game.
