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Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by LBsFinest, Nov 3, 2013.
I think a lot of people are talking out of their *** in this thread.
Agreed , and if he addressed this as indicated and it was allowed to continue or a blind eye was turned , then making the issue(s) more confrontational would not be positive for him , the team , or the situation as a whole.
As I see it , this was at best poorly handled by team , meaning veteran players and coaches/management.
I am sure we will never hear from him, but I would like to hear Turner's perspective on this.
Research has shown that some person do stay in bully/abusive situations when it is life and death. Battered spouses, children. Some of those studies have addressed why a person would do that. There are a lot of variables. It just isn't simple. I consider myself pretty strong minded, and I would say that persons who are bullied generally have pretty strong minds to make it. They learn to exists in spite of the environment. I was bullied as a kid. I would hope you wouldn't refer me to being weak minded. I hope that is not your message. If a person allows someone to bully them they are weak minded. Are you saying ?
Actually, given that the military culture has come up a lot in this thread, it's appropriate to mention Turner. As HardKnocks characterized him, he carried a noticeable Marines ethos with him.
And he happens to be the OLine coach.
So perhaps the culture he was helping facilitate was part of what Martin had difficulty handling.
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You can make good money in Bangkok for doing that.
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Lee, I'm not sure a lot of benefit will come from the debate you're trying to have with wolverines and rockets.
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and of course this is just another case of Ireland not doing his homework, and drafting another 2nd round bust. But yet he stays and Philbin, and players go......
Not sure anyone goes on this, other than Martin not returning.
Please! People that do what you recommend usually wind up out of the game quickly - or out of work. There's always someone badder than you think you are who will gladly take your @$$ out and teach you some manners. Works in every place I know. If you got to talk about it, you ain't it. Works in the business world in suits, in the Corps & Nav in BDUs (fatigues for us old farts) and in the lockerroom the same way. You prove who you are in the game!
wow...you went off on a really wild tangent there. i dont even know where to begin with the abusive relationship stuff. i thought we were talking about grown, 6'5, 300 lb man paying meal tabs and being called names. yes, i stand by what i have been saying all along. he's weak minded. you say you're strong minded, right? would you allow me to call you ******** for 2 years and make you pay my bills? if you told me to go to hell and decided to fight back, chances are i would leave you the hell alone.
I'd think this is going to probably be the tipping point for Richie. What may make it worse is that unless he picks his game up substantially, Dallas Thomas doesn't look to be his replacement.
Please stop trying to turn every thread into a Jeff Ireland thread.
As far as it related to Richie Incognito, I think that he'd be gone next year regardless if this situation happened or not; he's been pretty bad this year.
do you know how many stories there are of locker room fights??? it happens at all levels and usually stems from hazing of some sort. i never said it was right, but it happens alot. no one is killed or arrested unless a weapon is used. hell, i've even seen some coaches ref the fight to make sure it doesnt go too far. respect is gained and the hazing stops. i sPeak from personal experience.
Or....could even be the inverse in that he isn't for hazing. Due to the o-line performance he could be the coach that was reamed at practice and is resultantly leaking things to the media. I don't know here. But it has to be someone who has knowledge of the relationships amongst the olineman. I'm just playing Perry Mason at this point. But who knows.
It was Col. Mustard in the Study with the Wrench.
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He is the architect of this disaster, it's all about his decisions and the people he put in place.
I will take's Bpk's advise and move on from this topic. I have no doubt you wouldn't put up with it. And at this point in my life I wouldn't either. I trained in Hapkido for over 10 years and am generally not afraid of anyone from a physical standpoint. You might hurt me, but I will leave an impression myself. However, my training in Hapkido actually helped me understand a life without fighting, even though you could hurt someone. I take a win-win approach. I train people on how to deal with physical conflict in such a way that all parties are as protected as possible. I have been in a number of physical crisis situations, and what is ultimately important is that all parties learn from it. Is that always possible. Not always. But it is my goal. My actual job is to deal with people who are aggressive and threatening. The way I learned to overcome bully behavior was to simply make myself boring and unimportant to their need for social reinforcement. Would I have kicked their *** if I knew the martial arts. Maybe, but what would I have truly accomplished. I have dealt with issues surrounding bully behavior for years, and I supposed you touched a raw nerve there. You are perfectly entitled to your opinion. And I will keep mine.
Not if you're a quite, shy, introverted person who is given to more intellectual pursuits, but who plays a "man's game" where your personality and personal interests do quite fit in with "the jocks". As a rookie, Martin was already picked on,rediculed, and nicknamed "Big Weirdo".
No, no one held a gun to his head, but most on here act as though they have never heard of the term "peer pressure". It's real and it happens and there are consequences.
Giving in to peer pressure to try and "fit in" and be "one of the guys" is common, especially in sports. Martin is a different person from most of the other's linemen. It was noted and has been at the heart of most of the issues with his fitting in with the other guys. He just wanted to fit in and be accepted and liked.
Philbin is at fault for recognizing the issues, especially after they were brought to his attention, and putting a stop to it. I have managed teams for a decade and know full well that people act differently in a group and sometimes go along with things simply due to peer pressure that they either do not agree with or have remorse over later. I have also been in Philbin's situation and know full well that I was liable if I didn't respond and handle the situation in a way that protected not only myself, but my firm, from lawsuit.
We all need to wait for the actual facts to come out in this and not just what is being speculated right now.
This * 7 pages...
Agreed, I am losing respect for a number of people on this forum. If the latest reports are true, that of Incognito asking him to contribute $15k for a trip to Vegas and more than one tab of over $10k, one was $30k, I would leave team too. Yes I have heard of other teams doing this, but the Dolphins are taking it to a new level.
NOW I understand why Tannehill can't stay on his feet. As a UNIT the O-line is broken for sure. No trust, no leadership (except by fear and intimidation) and no brotherhood. Sad, no shameful. Our team is shameful.
I don't think it's Cogs. I think Pouncey is most likely the bully.
I heard from an anonymous source that Incognito actually tried to force Martin to block somebody....
i cannot believe this is even a story. kids getting bullied is one thing, but 20 something year olds being "bullied"? give me a break.
Adults get bullied all of the time.
It's funny how people blatantly choose to hang onto certain details while ignoring others.
For example, talking about Martin being forced to pay for dinners without noting the known detail that he was a known participant in credit card roulette. That's not a fair treatment of the issue.
Another example, talking about Martin being the subject of that cafeteria prank without noting that he was one of the perpetrators of the same prank only one week earlier on Nate Garner.
Another example, talking about Martin being the subject of pranks without noting that Martin himself perpetrated a prank wherein Josh Samuda's car was essentially stolen and placed somewhere else.
Another example, talking about Jonathan Martin's relationship with Richie Incognito without noting that the two regularly hung out together, and that Martin explicitly wrote Incognito a text message saying he doesn't blame him or any of the other guys.
Another example, talking about the Dolphins sticking rookies with $30,000 bar bills without noting that the bill was split amongst several rookies, and that the practice is extraordinarily common in the NFL and the NFLPA knows about it and essentially cares not a lick.
Certain people have taken to fashioning these highly creative, highly customized situations, mindsets, and situations that could hypothetically be true and explain some of the contradictions and inconsistencies above. But why? Those pieces of fiction are intentionally fashioned to explain the inconsistencies, assuming one particular assumption is true, which is that Martin is a victim of bullying.
But why? Why the assumption? Why bend over backward finding all of these convoluted scenarios and explanations for making these inconsistencies meet perfectly?
Seems like the easiest explanation is the guy didn't face anything that 99.99% of the NFL players handle easily and dare I say even appreciate and participate in, but he couldn't handle it and now he's blowing it up into something big in order to justify it.
jeez when i got these Monday night tickets at the start of the year didnt think this game would be such a circus with the way tampa and miami are atm i need to think of a witty sign
More people need to use some common sense and look at the facts like you have. Thank you for this post because this forum has become a **** storm since the Martin news broke. Normally I'd just fist bump but felt like that wasn't enough in this case.
"We received notification today from Jonathan's representation about allegations of player misconduct. We are taking these allegations very seriously and plan to review the matter further," the Dolphins said in the statement.
"We have also reached out to the NFL and asked them to conduct an objective and thorough review. As an organization, we are committed to a culture of team-first accountability and respect for one another."
This already is a **** storm so people are going to be on both sides of it regardless
I love you so much right now. Pretty much nailed my entire thoughts on the subject in this post.
CK, to your point, we only know of one tweet about one dinner where Martin seems to have participated in Credit Card Roulette and lost. There very well could be countless other times where he was stuck with the bill without choice. Again, we don't know, but given the national headlines this is garnering, I would venture to say that its true, along with more, egregious things.
Furthermore, there are now reports where Martin was pressured to drop 15k to a Vegas trip that he wasn't going on. Now, some would argue that it was his choice to pay to, but we also don't know what type of ridicule he was going to get for do ing so. And in a work environment where being a cohesive unit is paramount, he seems to have been put in a hard place.
Regardless of whethert any of us think it is bullying or not, the simple fact remains that Martin does, so it has to stop. That's the end of the discussion. You canc all hi names and soft and everything else, and maybe you are right, but regardless...dude was bullied in his eyes and it should have been addressed upon initial discovery.
We all know how this ends anyway, don't we? Incognito will be jettisoned, if not now, then at he end of the year. Martin will be brought back until an appropriate amount of time passes where Miami can dump him and we will be stuck with yet, another o-line rebuild.
Some of you are so judgmental. None of you know Jonathan Martin. None of you know anything that has happened in his life ranging from his childhood to now. Blanket accusations and statements are being made while not knowing all the facts. Calling someone mentally weak for succumbing to peer pressure? What if he didn't get the emotional support needed at home when he was younger due to his parents constantly working and not being there for him? Or in other cases both his parents were alcoholics who were not there for him emotionally? Either scenario can cause an individual to partake in activities to be socially accepted by their peers. Whether its partaking in hazing, drinking, partying, whatever and consequentially them breaking down emotionally. There are so many scenarios for why this happened, yet none of us know the real reason.
The guy is just out of college. He's still a kid. He's dealing with the immense pressure 35 year olds are dealing with. No one gives them a break. Most people don't fully develop their brain until they are 25. I'm not standing up or crucifying him. I'm saying no one knows the situation or facts. Stop being so damn judgmental.
I hope that's all that happens.
Man this is a tough one to speculate on..I find it hard to believe there was malicious intent.
Listen...I have no sources...no inside information. I don't have a " friend" or a relative who works for the Dolphins. I just have a real funny feeling that there is some HUGE underlying factor going on here. Just a hunch. You have the feeling like you are just waiting for the other shoe to drop. A lot of tap dancing by Dolphin players...Coaches and GMs around the league when it comes to this situation and particularly Martin. Again...I have no inside info....just my opinion and funny feeling about where this is all headed
To be honest I think it will come out that there is nothing that unusual. NFL is a boys club, and there will be a debate whether the culture needs to change.