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Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by LBsFinest, Nov 3, 2013.
I truly hope you are right. Can't imagine this media circus getting any worse . Yet it could
And this is for ONE meal. These guys go out a lot you could easily be spending 10's of thousands of dollars if your teammates are routinely ringing up tabs close to this. I don't care who you are thats a ton of money. Yeah a guy might get a big bonus and have a salary of a million dollars but after the tax man gets his cut, you buy a house, car, take care of your family....I don't want to spend 10's of thousands wining and dining my "friends" on the team. Sounds like it went over the top, we'll have to see how this shakes out.
If it was bullying, so be it. But here's a question; how is it that the Dolphins should stop it given that the perpetrators (if any) are grown men who have lives outside of the facility that you cannot impede on.
If they knew and addressed it, after a certain point there is only so much the organization can do. That is the reality, after that it simply comes down to the individuals involved and their value structure. You cannot legislate or watch all of this type of nonsense, if you did you'd be unemployed as a coach as you wouldn't be able to do your actual job. I'm not saying they turn a blind eye but Philbin is going to only have so much involvement. Your HC can't be running around monitoring it everyday, its not possible.
If this kind of crap is actually going on, anyone related remotely to the OL should be fired ASAP, along with Incognito or whoever was pulling this crap. An OL must be a band of brothers so to speak, or they will play like ours has so far. If all this, or any of it, is true then I know why Tannehill is about to set a league record for being sacked.
I really want the truth of this to come out in full and who is bullying who. Then the related players and coaching staff that turned a blind eye to it, gone from our team by the day after season ends.
If this is true, it explains a lot to me, and makes me mad as hell!
MD Dolphins and doctor NFL have issued the diagnosis on Martin Thursday night.
This whole thing is awfully fishy. Is Martin is being harmed by all the locker room hi-jinx and pranks, why is he participating in them himself when someone else is the target? Why does he continue to text and hang out with Incognito if he's harming him so much? Something is missing here.
No one can convince me that this is a Dolphins only issue when it comes to things that are happening inside the locker room. This happens everywhere. It's an NFL issue. My gut feeling is that Martin snapped for whatever reason and is trying to save face by saying he was "bullied". The fact that many current and former players are going on twitter and tweeting that they never experienced what Martin is complaining about further proves it for me.
My deepest sympathies for Martin if he does indeed have a serious mental issue, but right now I feel like this is a guy that just can't or doesn't know how to handle an NFL locker room for whatever reason. And if it comes out that there is a problem with him, I really hope he gets the help he needs. No one should have to suffer like that in life and he seems like a good kid.
He can't be making it a daily priority but he can delegate the responsibility to someone if he feels or felt it merited that. Then be apprised as needed.
He also would have to make an informed decision on the matter and if he felt that any player(s) was taking extreme liberties he should be in control of that. Was it that bad ? We don't know , but personally from the stories and details I think at best it was not handled well by the veteran players , coaches and management.
What Martin told Philbin will be important in this imo , if he brought up issues that we have been told happened , almost strong arming for cash for example , then there is no easy out as I see it. There would have been responsibility that had to have been taken.
I agree with this. Where is the leadership? Regardless of what some may think of Martin, if he brought this to light in the spring to Joe Philbin, and Philbin did nothing to stop it, then that may just be a microcosm of his career as a head coach to this point.
There was a good discussion on NFL Network this morning about the Dallas Cowboys and who the leaders are there. It was said that it has to be clear that the two leaders of the team are the head coach and the quarterback. Right now, I think we have to question who is the leader of this team.
I really have a problem with that. IMO it's one of the things that's wrong with this country. I hate the idea that everybody has to walk around on eggshells out of fear that one person will be offended. Reality is that if it's something that 99% of people don't have an issue with then that 1% is the problem. And the 99% shouldn't have to change to accommodate that 1%. I don't know everything that was occurring, but I can say that nothing I've heard so far is any different than what goes on in most every locker room. Since Martin himself has allegedly stated that it was nothing different than what goes on in every locker room, I don't see any reason to believe that whatever occurred here was so egregious. And if that was the case then Martin was probably wise to consider leaving for a different profession. In the end this may result in some politically correct, sensitivity training, but that will just be nothing more than an accommodation for somebody who'll probably leave the sport regardless and be happier in another line of work.
How is this automatically a "leadership" issue?
This whole thing smacks of dishonesty by the press, first of all. Secondly, for all any of us know, Philbin handled it when it was brought up, and then things got seemingly better with Martin involved in numerous pranks himself.
This whole effing thing is absurd and the media and the wanna be media on this board are all pushing this agenda. Its ridiculous.
If that were true the league couldn't punish players for smoking pot. When it comes to something like vets 'persuading' rookies to buy them things the team could easily step in if it wanted to. The team can't know about every incident but they can at least say 'don't do it.'
Not discounting your theory, but it is a theory. I need to hear more to draw any conclusions in that direction. Not saying it isn't a possibility, but that might be too neat and clean.
No one can say that Tim Bowen was SOFT, I personally think that for a player in this case JMartin to get ready to quit, must be pretty bad, bad to the point that became almost impossible to stay in this kind of harassment, nothing to do of being soft, time will tell the real story
Honestly when drafting offensive linemen you need to draft by skill and personality. I want some nasty, pissed off SOB's like Incognito protecting our quarterback. Even Jake Long who is considered a good guy is known to get nasty in game, you know no one is going to be bullying Jake Long. Pouncey, battle tested playing in the SEC. Martin was never that kinda player in college...
This whole thing reminds me of prison culture.
I don't think you see either of them again.....
Bullying shouldn't be accepted anywhere.
We don't know that he was or was not involuntarily stuck with bar bills. But how many people cite that and just leave out that he is known to play credit card roulette during those dinners? That's what I'm talking about. It's not that I dislike the information coming out, it's that I dislike the cherry-picking of the information that seems to be done with the intention of presenting a certain viewpoint, while disregarding information that is inconsistent with that viewpoint. Absolutely if you're going to talk about Martin being stuck with bar bills it needs to be said that he's complained about credit card roulette before on twitter. That is absolutely the correct thing to do. It needs to be noted if you're trying to present a fair and balanced view of the issue.
That's another issue where I find scant research or interest in presenting a balanced view. What were the circumstances of that? Because I will tell you right now someone came to me on twitter and said that the line has a pool into which they ALL feed money as they fine one another for all kinds of stupid sh-t, and the pool goes toward a Vegas trip. It's voluntary. I don't know how you can call it anything else. Nobody forged Martin's signature or anything. What if he tried to be lame and not go on the big Vegas trip for which the pool is formed, and his fine for being lame and not going became contributing $15k toward the trip? So what? Who the hell are we to tell these people what to do with their money? It's not like Martin had zero choice in the matter. He could have told Incognito or Pouncey or whoever tried to impose the fine to go eff themselves.
Jeff Ireland's last 2 drafts have been awful.
I can't understand this thinking at all. If Martin didn't want to be involved in this nonsense, that for the life if me I can't understand why anyone would want to be involved in, then just leave him out if it. Continue having your fun with third that don't mind or don't complain.
And by the way, just because 99% of people don't complain about something or are ok with it doesn't make it right. It wasn't that long ago that most everybody believed gay people were abnormal or that blacks were inferior to whites.
I'm sorry that Martin inconvenienced Incignito's prerogative to be a jerk but you don't get to keep being a jerk once you get called on it
I just don't think it is Richie. Who else has the juice?
Incidentally what I really liked about this Adam Beasley piece is it did the best I've seen thus far of really presenting ALL sides of some of the issues:
In there he doesn't just cherry pick. He started with information he got from young players complaining about being bled dry by the veterans who make them pay for everything. But you know what else he did? He went and checked around league sources to see how common this was in the NFL. Answer? Extremely common, and the NFLPA knows and doesn't give two sh-ts about it. He talks about Adam Schefter's accusations then turns right back around and notes that Schefter was guilty of reporting stuff about Incognito punching a bouncer which turned out to have zero evidence. He mentions the $30,000 bar bill, but follows up with Will Davis' statement that it wasn't JUST him paying the tab. He presents the portions of the code of conduct that could come into play if some of Martin's allegations prove true. And then he finishes with a statement from a very plugged in agent David Canter basically saying this is all blown way out of proportion and that it's an unfortunate situation involving one player who had an adverse reaction to a locker room culture that exists for thousands of NFL players without issue.
You don't know any of that. In fact, there's been more evidence to the contrary.
Maybe it's not fair to assign onto Jonathan Martin terms like "mentally weak", especially in a society where a majority of people would probably be too "mentally weak" to maintain a high level of performance in professional football. It's a demanding sport. Highly lucrative, but demanding.
But there's one term I'm not afraid to assign onto him and that is locker room cancer. That's what is happening right now. This guy is incompatible with an NFL locker room and he's spreading distraction and dissent. That's pretty much the definition of a locker room cancer. In my opinion he could have gone any number of routes to handle this situation that do not involve packing your bags, quitting the team and then blasting everyone in the press and hiring legal representation to start making accusations toward the team. Thousands of players go in and out of this league and have no problems. This guy does. Maybe he's not cut out for football. That's his choice to make. But he's not just making that choice, he's making the choice to disrupt his team, disrupt the lives of the players, sow dissent and create media controversy. That's a locker room cancer.
And when someone got yelled at earlier for trying to make this about Jeff Ireland, all I could think was...yeah, the decision-makers in charge of personnel need to be held accountable for putting a locker room cancer in the locker room.
Putting aside everything else, the question I still have is why any of this stuff the veterans were doing is even necessary. Is it really furthering the goal of having a good team and winning games?
If someone can explain how having rookies pick up multiple thousand dollar bar tabs makes them better players, Im happy to consider it. It all just seems stupid. And I don't care that it's gone on a long time and happens everywhere. Then it's stupid everywhere.
With any fraternity there's a certain amount of hazing. It engenders brotherhood because you willingly put yourself through a ridiculous ordeal to become part of a group. Its an initiation and its fairly common EVERYWHERE.
Its basically no different than an internship.
This isn't a fraternity. It's a place of business. And I don't recall any hazing at any internship I was a part of. You had to work hard, because you were actually learning to go the job you hoped to be hired for. And any gopher type tasks weren't hazing. They were part if the job description when you signed up.
It's a good question to ask. Unfortunately it's not a question best asked to a message board, by a message board poster. It's a question the players should be asking themselves and if the answer isn't something YOU like and that YOU understand, then maybe that's an OK thing. It's their choice.
I will say that the concept behind hazing for entrance into brotherhood is extraordinarily common across cultures, throughout history, across different social structures and groups. At its base you can imagine that the concept of sacrifice and paying respect is an important rite of passage for the entrant into the group, while also being an important signal to the veterans of the group of the commitment and willingness to sacrifice of the new entrant.
There's a very common concept in our culture of less experienced people needing to "pay their dues". If that's what is at the core of the whole thing, so be it. Can it get out of hand? I'm sure it does. That's where leadership from the coaching staff and from the players themselves needs to step in. In this case the leadership didn't step up in time to prevent what is now a disaster. So that's a failure. But it's also a failure on the part of the player.
You are right, if 99% of everyone is fine with rape, then the 1% who don't like getting raped should just shut their mouths.
EDIT: Unless of course, their mouths are being forced open to rape.
I wonder if this has blown up in part due to the careers of Martin's parents.
A fraternity and a place of business are not mutually exclusive. Also, he doesn't have to participate in the "hazing' to work there. He can voluntarily participate to be accepted by his fellow lineman.
It is an obvious over reaction to emphasis a point. Plus, this is not the country, this is football.
I'm not aware of what their careers are but I can tell you this much, some of the things that came out this morning made me think they're taking a very heavy hand in this and that what THEY say may not necessarily be what Martin would say if left on his own.
Parents are the definition of biased. Martin himself likely has more ability to be unbiased about the situation than a parent does. A parent sees their child going through an ordeal, everyone around the child that put him into the ordeal is a demon while the child is an angel. That's just the way it goes. And count me unsurprised if Martin himself is not being 100% forthright with his parents about the situation. I think it's quite common for people not to be completely straight with their parents when they're looking for support in these situations.
I don't know what they do for a living and I don't care to look it up but I wouldn't be shocked if they were lawyers. I'm certainly getting that feel.
Where is the article about him being a drug addict?
I believe his father is a Harvard educated lawyer.
Jeff Darlington @JeffDarlington 5m
Richie Incognito was advised by Joe Philbin tonight he has been indefinitely suspended by team while NFL investigates, Incognito tells me.
Dolphins' Richie Incognito has not been investigated by NFLPA
Well, whaddaya know?
Can't say Philbin isn't taking it serious now. Man this sucks.
Sent from my Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk
This is so weirdo!