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Jordan Phillips Released!!!!

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Oct 2, 2018.

  1. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Belicheck has PROVEN that he is a great coach and even when he misses on a player in the draft, he and his coaching staff are capable of bringing out the best in a player who might not have had success on another team.

    So far Gase has proved nothing as an NFL headcoach, except he is a terrible OC as a headcoach and he is terrible at selecting quality coaches for his staff. Especially a DC who knows what he is doing.
     
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  2. danmarino

    danmarino Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is. Club Member

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    3 players. A 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pick. All in their 2nd seasons. One playing for the first time, with a total of 4 games under his belt, because he's coming off an ACL. One with relatively limited playing time because he's spent his career, up to this point, behind Wake and/or Quinn....2 vets that are outstanding.

    I'll give you that Tank, the 3rd round guy, isn't playing as we all hoped. Again, though, he's started 11 games in the NFL. Expecting any player, much less 2nd round players coming off of injury and 3rd round players in season 2 to look like All-Pros is ridiculous. I was hoping for more from Harris at this point. I'm not sure if he's getting limited reps because he's not grasping the NFL or if it's because he's playing behind Wake and Quinn....I would suspect it's a little of both. Regardless, it's his second season and he's not going anywhere unless someone offers up something big. By all accounts he's a great teammate, works hard, is smart, and motivated. He just needs the light bulb to come on.
     
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  3. danmarino

    danmarino Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is. Club Member

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    Wrong. They cut players, high drafted or high cost, all the time. He's great at hiding flaws in certain players who buy into the scheme, but when you get the Ajayi's and Landry's of this world he cuts them fast.
     
  4. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    Our running game was literally instantly better once Ajayi left. I believe Drake led the league in yards at the end of last year so...yeah. This year we're struggling but it's not Drake's fault. The line getting injured really hit.

    As for Landry, we avoided having to pay him far more than he's worth, got better in the locker room and ultimately a better WR group. I'd say that worked too.
     
  5. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    100% right.

    Not only to do the Patriots get rid of players extremely quickly, and often, but they also have a very, very high failure rate among their top picks in the last 5-10 years.

    The Patriots do a LOT of things extremely well, but developing talent is not one of them. They are, however, able to get the most out of players that have already developed.
     
  6. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    Its telling that an unmotivated lard *** with a bad attitude has played more than a 1st, 2nd, 3rd round pick--combined...even with RMac out last year. Harris cant get on the field and Tankersley should not get close to it.
     
  7. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    Yet we still cant win meaningful games...
     
  8. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    All wins are meaningful. So far we've won three of them and only lost one. So...throw more of a tantrum please.
     
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  9. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    When you've been to 8 SBs, you dont have to answer critics. Gase does.
     
  10. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    No tantrum. If you think Tennessee and Oakland were as big as NE, then we disagree. If you're right, and I hope you are, we'll go 3-1 in next 4. If I am right, and I think I am, we'll do worse than that. So continue your love-fest.
     
  11. danmarino

    danmarino Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is. Club Member

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    Yes, if the Dolphins came into Gillette with an 0-3 record, but beat the Pats to go 1-3, you'd be happy. Right?

    *chortle*
     
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  12. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    If they dont bite as pups, chance are, they dont bite.
     
  13. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    I'm beginning to question whether you're actually rooting for the Dolphins to win, or you're rooting for them to lose just so you can be "right".
     
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  14. danmarino

    danmarino Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is. Club Member

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    Not true. Sure, some HoF type players may come screaming out of the gates and rock the NFL in their 1st and 2nd seasons, but there aren't that many HoF caliber players.
     
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  15. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    lol...you must make up a fantasy to prove your point. We weren't 0-3 and we didnt win in NE. We got trounced, manhandled, and exposed. That's reality. Welcome to it.
     
  16. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    Uh...ok.

    Not sure what you're referring to.

    Sure, there are many paths to the HOF. But players that are cut, released, terminated by end of first contract, usually dont become quality players, much less HOF. It happens, but it's rare.

    But HOF is not the goal. Just come in and be a quality starter. It's one thing that Charles Harris is not Bruce Smith, but hes not even Lorenzo Bromell.

    RMac isn't even Dwight Hollier.
     
  17. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    If getting the most out of the players on your roster and having success year after year isn’t a sign of player development, then I have no idea exactly what you consider player development.

    Every team in the NFL obviously has high draft choices which fail at the NFL level. It is the best organizations which are able to succeed each year by developing the players on their roster into a
    winning team, even if a high draft choice or two aren’t successful.

    Belicheck has shown this ability over an extended period of time, no matter the talent on his roster.
    We are still waiting to see if Gase will ever be even half the head coach Belicheck is.
     
  18. Mafioso

    Mafioso Air Force's #1 Phin Fan

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    Considering that we got 4th round picks for both Jarvis Landry and Jay Ajayi, I doubt anyone would pay a 5th for Philips who is very inconsistent and has not been able to rise to his draft status through 2 head coaches and a handful of different coordinators. I know the dolphins coaching staffs have never been known for truly tapping into potential, as frustrating as that has been, but at some point I gotta think the player is what they are.
     
  19. danmarino

    danmarino Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is. Club Member

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    You're not reading the posts.

    Yes, BB is great at getting the ability out of his players, but he cuts players like Dallas Thomas, Ajayi, Landry, Phillips all the time. Why? Either they suck so bad even he can't help them or they don't buy into the system and are "Me first" guys.

    Most people said BB would never amount to anything other than a good DC when he was in Cleveland. He left there and then went back to DC'ing for a few years before he once again got the opportunity to be a HC again. I bet Cleveland is kicking themselves now, huh?

    And, BB was 39 when he took over the HC position in Cleveland. Gase was 38 when he got the HC job here in Miami. In 5 seasons in Cleveland BB took his team to the playoffs 1 time. In 2 seasons Gase has took them there 1 time.

    Proclaiming that a 40 year old 1st time HC will never be half as good as BB is far fetched. Yes, he could be fired tomorrow and never amount to squat, but he also may be the next best NFL HC...

    Proclaiming that BB wins "no matter the talent" is also far fetched. The Pats, over the last 18 seasons, have had tons of talent.
     
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  20. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    Well first, he happens to have the greatest QB of all time on his roster. That helps cover up a lot of other issues and it makes other players on the team appear better than they are. We've seen that countless times when a "star" on the Patriots goes somewhere else and their production falls off.

    Second, fitting players into a specific role is not developing talent. They identify key skills that already exist and plug those skills into their system. Jordan Philips would not have become a pro-bowler under Belichick.
     
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  21. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    They promoted Cameron Malveaux from the practice squad to replace Philips.
     
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  22. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    The fact you agree that Belicheck has had success for the past 18 years merely validates how successful he has been at picking the talent and then coaching this talent to consistently play at a high level, year after year.

    Every team has talented players and every team has some high draft picks which fail in the NFL.
    I have no idea if Gase will ever be a top tier NFL head coach. Perhaps if he actually hired a quality
    OC and DC and he stopped calling plays, he might actually turn into a good head coach. Unfortunately as the Dolphins play caller, he is awful and he has has done a terrible job bringing in a top DC during his time as the Dolphins head coach.

    The only real success Gase had as an OC in the NFL was the one year he was the OC of the Broncos and he had Peyton Manning as his starting QB. The fact is that throughout his career Manning made every OC he worked under seem like an offensive genius. I think it was because Manning was the real genius and the coaches just road his coattails.

    The year Gase was in Chicago and Cutler had a decent season, the Bears were still a bad team overall. So I really don’t think he proved he was an offensive genius prior to coming to the Dolphins.

    The fact the Broncos showed no interest in hiring Gase as their head coach when they decided to fire Fox clearly shows that they understood the success of the Broncos offense was due to Peyton Manning and not because of Gase.

    My problem with Gase is his lousy play calling and his selection of lower quality coaches on his staff. He also seems to have trouble getting the best players on his team to buy into his program. That’s why Suh, Pouncey, and Landry are playing elsewhere this year.

    Only time will tell if Gase will be a successful head coach in the NFL, but as of right now I just don’t see him being the long term answer for the Dolphins. Hopefully he will prove me wrong.
     
  23. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Your second paragraph makes no sense at all. If using the skills of a player to maximize his proficiency on the field isn’t an effective means of developing this players talent, I have no
    idea what you think developing a players talent is.

    Of course no coach can develop every player he selects because some players are just not good enough or are not willing to put in the work required to succeed in the NFL. I just know that Belicheck has consistently been better at developing the the talent he has drafted or signed over the past 18 than the other coaches have been over this time period.

    As far as him having the greatest QB of all time is concerned. Perhaps you should look at his record in NE when Brady has been injured or suspended. You will quickly see that Belicheck has been able to win whether Brady is his QB or not in New England. Also it was Belicheck who drafted Brady, while every other team in the NFL passed on him in the draft 6 times.
     
  24. danmarino

    danmarino Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is. Club Member

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    Before Cleveland, the only success BB had was as the Giants DC. Do I need to list the HoF'ers on those defenses?

    Point being...looking at 2 years and 4 games, with one of those years being a playoff year, to judge a coach isn't being honest. Now, Gase may end up getting fired after this season and never coach again, but neither you nor I know what's going to happen with him or this team. They could win out for all we know and everybody, including you, would be calling Gase a genius. However, we could lose them all and you would be calling him a loser. You flip flop depending on the game. I don't do that.

    And that's the difference between ignorance, homerism, and objectivity.

    Ignorant people claim to know the future. Homers will never look at the bad. Objective people won't really make any definitive conclusions until all the evidence is in. I've always said Gase needs time to prove, or disprove, what he can do. You, OTOH, call for his firing after every loss..... lol
     
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  25. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Say what you want about negativity/pessimism, but JW is pretty consistent with it. :up:

    To be frank though, it's hard to say BB has done any better at identifying and developing talent as any other average team. He has been boosted immensely by having Brady (and only year of an injured Brady) to cover up a lot of flaws. He also has generally superior schemes, gameplans and he innovates and makes teams respond to him rather than the other way. He's put his players in better positions to succeed than most teams.

    As just a drafter, he's gotten tons of praise for the trades and moving around he does, but ultimately he busts out on picks about as much as anyone.
     
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  26. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Its all relative. Belicheck having bad high picks proves, that the fact that its not on the coach majority of the time. But ya I know, Gase gets all the blame for whatever reason.

    Belicheck's first 5 seasons he had 1 winning season.

    His first 5 seasons...41-55...oops.
     
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  27. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I agree that he was not a successful HC with the Browns. Yet that has nothing to do with the fact he has clearly proven during the past 18 years that he is probably the greatest HC in NFL history.

    Perhaps Gase will eventually become a very good HC. My issue with him is I believe he should be the HC and should not be calling the offensive plays, because I believe he is a below average OC. I also
    think he is terrible when it comes to selecting his coaching staff.

    Neither one of the DC’s he has hired were or are effective in this position. I would like to see Gase hire a competent OC and DC and then perhaps I would be able to judge him as a head coach. Until then, I just don’t see him as the long term answer for the Dolphins.

    I would love to see Gase have success and be the Dolphins HC for years to come. Because I think the constant turnover at the HC position is a deterrent to any football organization. I just question if he has the will to get rid of the bad coaches, just like he has shown that he has no problem getting rid of the players who don’t meet his standards . The ineffective coaches on the team should be treated the same way. Remaining the offensive play caller and keeping ineffective coaches on his staff is going to cost him his job eventually, IMO.
     
  28. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    It has everything to do with it. You said Belicheck is a proven coach so he gets a pass. He wasn't proven until his 7th year as a head coach. Yet we expect Gase(who has a much better record in first 3 years), to be proven after 2 1/3.
     
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  29. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    Not everyone has the gift of comprehension.
     
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  30. Berezo

    Berezo Well-Known Member

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    Not sure if this was the right call or not...it's always nice to have depth but if hes disrupting the progress of the team the so be it. The problem is that Gase seems to have a track record of not being able to get "divas" on his side or play well for him. Could be a product of the player or it could be the stubbornness of Adam Gase. Bill Belicheck meanwhile, invites Josh Gordon on his team because he believes he can get him to make his team better. Gase seems to have a very short leash with any player with a problem, and I think there is an art to these getting these type of players to play for you if they are talented. Someone in this thread earlier mentioned the timing of this looks extremely bad considering the week we just had. Probably could have cut bait after this week so things could settle down.
     
  31. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    Every game is meaning full when there are only 16 played a year, or is that arithmetic too difficult to understand!
     
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  32. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The Bills claimed defensive tackle Jordan Phillips off waivers from the Dolphins, the team announced Wednesday. They cut defensive tackle Robert Thomas to make room.
     
  33. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Obviously you don’t bother to read anything before commenting. Because I never said Gase couldn’t eventually become a good head coach. I made it very clear that my problem with him is that he is not an effective play caller and he has done a poor job of selecting quality coaches for the team.

    I also stated that I would like to see how effective he would be if he hired a quality offensive and defensive coordinator. If he continues to call the offensive plays and hire a DC who isn’t qualified to be a DC in the NFL, he will likely end up being fired, just as Belicheck was with the Browns.

    Perhaps he will get another chance to be a HC with another team and he will have learned from his mistakes in Miami and he will then turn into another a very good HC. I just wish he would learn from his mistakes now and become a quality HC while he is with the Dolphins.

    I am not anti Head Coach Gase. I am anti OC Gase and anti his selection of an unqualified DC.
     
  34. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    If you dont think the Pat's game was huge, then we just disagree.
     
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  35. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    People are making this out to be about Adam Gase being a control freak or letting his ego get in the way. I disagree with that. We all had high hopes for Jordan Phillips. This year....was supposed to be his year that he took over and became what we all hope he would become. It didn't happen, and if we cut him it was because we are better off without him then we are with him. Addition by subtraction....same with Jay Ajayi.
     
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  36. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough.

    I don't think it was any more important than our beating them last year.

    I do know this loss bothered me a lot, but I don't play for the Dolphins, and for me that's what determines how big a game is. It's big if it causes a team to stutter step a few games due to lack of confidence. We may stutter step due to injuries, but that's a problem every team deals with during the season. I hope this clarifies my position?
     
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  37. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Explain Cam Wake.

    Oops!

    Just stop... just because you heard a coach say it at some point doesn't make it the absolute fact.
     
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  38. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Nor should he. He's the head ****ing coach. He's the leader. He's the boss as far as that locker room and team is concerned. If you're a player on that team, and you're trying to undermine what they're doing, not buying in, freelancing, not giving maximum effort, not progressing, not doing what the coaches are asking you to do, guess what... you're out. That's exactly his job, and exactly what you'd like him to do. Of course, with that being said, you hope how it went down this week with Phillips, and with Landry and Ajayi aren't the first course of action. I think it's been pretty well documented with Ajayi and Landry they had multiple opportunities to get with the program, the same is with Phillips. They've been saying since they got here they want more out of him. It's a contract year for him, and he's more concerned with that, than the success of the team apparently if he's throwing hissy fits about his playtime, which as of this year he hasn't really earned. So yeah, you're damn ****ing right I want my head coach to get rid of these guys if they aren't getting with the program.

    What would your boss do if you threw a fit at work because you weren't getting your way, or because you disagreed with their way and wanted to do it yours after they've tried to get you doing things there way. Yeah, you're on the street looking for work. I get it, this is the NFL, it's not your typical workplace like yours and mine, but generally speaking those rules still apply. Either get with the program, do what we ask of you, or get the **** out. When you start to make a scene, and a distraction (likely because they haven't given him a deal and the cash he thinks he deserves, or the playtime he wants to try and earn that) then you're done.

    That's exactly what he's supposed to do as the head coach. Enough with this crap already... I'm not sure where this narrative has come from with some of you guys... "Oh, they challenged him, he can't handle it, so he cut them" No... that's not exactly how it's going down, so stop pulling it out of your asses as if it's fact. There's not a coach in the league that wouldn't try to reign in players, or cut them loose if they aren't buying into the system and they're causing distractions. Let's stop acting like this has never happened before, and it's only happening with our coach.
     
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  39. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    The knock on him in the draft was his laziness, taking plays off and not giving it his all. Eh it was about time..
     
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  40. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    Well it’s been clear for 2 years now that Jordan Philips was on thin ice. Something happened to break that ice, although a sideline rant probably isn’t it by itself. Realistically we could have replaced Philips witha street FA with what he has done for us over the last 4 years, the good and the bad have cancelled each other out to a large extent and we’ve waited patiently for the bad to go away.

    Philips and Parker epitomize the previous personnel regime’s thinking - taking risks on athletes in the hope that coaching can turn them into stars. I think we will be better with the current regime’s focus on finding football players who have athleticism.
     
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