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Julius Thomas facing Criticism

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Aug 25, 2017.

  1. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    There's an argument to just cut him now and replace him with Gray instead.



    I generally like Wharton and his pieces, but this seems a bit premature. I can't say I've followed Thomas' career though. Maybe the writing has already been on the wall for him.

    Would seem like some sort of indictment against Gase cutting a player he brought in, although that doesn't necessarily have to be true. You never know what you're getting until you see them in action. Although it's that exact reason that suggests you have to let Julius Thomas get some genuine game time in before making a move on him.

    And even then, is Gray better? Has he had enough of a change to win the position in camp so far?

    Thoughts?
     
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  2. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    yeah I mean he has to play a few games first I think. The investment was huge, financially
     
  3. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I like Gray for the money difference.
     
  4. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    Here's the conversation:
    upload_2017-8-25_14-34-38.png
    upload_2017-8-25_14-35-57.png
     
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  5. Dolphin North

    Dolphin North Well-Known Member

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    If all they are doing is using him as a blocker so far, I would imagine it is because, well, look at the video. His blocking is atrocious and needs work. He's reaching. He's like Ja'Wuan James without the size.
     
  6. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    Justin Hier at ThePhinsider earlier wrote this about fair expectations for Thomas:

    "Dolphins fans everywhere are hoping that he is the kind of pass catching threat that Ryan Tannehill has lacked at the tight end position for most of his career. During his tenure in Denver, Thomas was a menace over the middle of the field and in the red zone. His combination of athleticism, size, and route running ability led to historic production in tandem with future Hall of Famer Peyton Manning.

    However, I’m not so sure fans should be expecting that same kind of production from Thomas in Miami, not because he’s not capable of achieving it, but because he might not have to. The Dolphins’ offense is equipped with more talent than we’ve seen in a very long time. The wide receiver trio of Jarvis Landry, DeVante Parker, and Kenny Stills is one of the top units in the league, especially if Parker breaks out this season as many expect him to."

    " Let’s also not forget that Damien Williams, Kenyan Drake, Anthony Fasano, and MarQueis Gray are guaranteed to accumulate at least a few targets over the course of the season.

    When you add up all of the pass catchers around Tannehill this season, there are only so many who can receive a large portion of targets. Adam Gase showed last season that he understands how to maximize offensive talent, and thus should have a specific plan for what kind of role Thomas will play this year.

    Thomas does not need to be a Rob Gronkowski or a Travis Kelceto be a success. Those players have been the most dominant receiving threats on their respective teams, and that’s not what fans should expect from Thomas. That’s not what he should be.

    Over the course of the 2013 and 2014 seasons, when Thomas was catching passes from Peyton Manning, the Pro Bowl tight end amassed just 1,277 total yards. That’s an average of just under 640 yards per season. However, if Thomas is able to reach that mark for Miami in 2017, that would absolutely constitute a success. He’s not on the team to gain large amounts of receiving yardage each week. That’s what Landry, Stills, and Parker are for. Thomas’ role will be to dominate in the red zone, score plenty of touchdowns, and be the type of mismatch that forces defenses to leave our top three receivers in one-on-one situations. If Thomas can stay healthy and accomplish those tasks, he will absolutely have lived up to fair expectations for 2017."
     
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  7. danmarino

    danmarino Justice for Jacob Blake Club Member

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    I guarantee they aren't trying to use him as a blocker. They want him to be that seam threat he was in Denver.

    Last night he had a perfect pass from Cutler stick to his chest. He was almost surprised that the ball was there. He seemed to be playing really lazy. Giving up position so easily for the INT, for example.

    My hope is that he's a vet and taking it easy for the preseason . My fear is he's a has-been.

    I think it's too early to come to any conclusions, but if he's playing like this in the 1st real game of the season he needs to go.
     
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  8. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't know that you can rule out that Julius Thomas provides something of value in the passing game based on this little bit of preseason.

    That being said, he's a dog **** blocker and he's not going to stay healthy.
     
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  9. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    agreed.
     
  10. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That first play was definitely dog****, to quote Pate. The second throw should have been back-shoulder. Matt Moore was telegraphing a lot of his first-read throws last night. The DB was all over that second play. Meanwhile, Drake was wide open for an easy first down.
     
  11. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    I'm honestly not expecting anything out of Thomas.

    He should thank Peyton Manning for allowing him to steal millions of $$$ in the NFL.
     
  12. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    He's here to catch touchdowns.

    And he could catch many of them. He's a rebounder.

    MarQueis Gray and Anthony Fasano should do everything else.
     
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  13. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    If Thomas gets 7-8 TDs this season, not many will be complaining.*




    *A few, but welcome to the internet and sports.
     
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  14. Dolphin North

    Dolphin North Well-Known Member

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    True they really are not going to use him as a blocker in most cases, but he may need to block once in a while as a good TE should be able to do. If they never plan to have him block it would make no sense to have him block even one play in preseason. So if he has to block even a handful of times this year, you'd like him to be able to block better than whatever it is we are seeing now...crap I guess is the best word.
    That pass that surprise him by Cutler probably won't surprise him once the chemistry and reps are in place. BTW that was called anticipation. Tannehill would often wait on that play for his guy to turn around and the defender has a chance to knock the ball away. I hope Tannehill is watching that as well as how Cutler was able to climb the pocket and slide to get a throw off earlier in the quarter. He should get to watch that quite a few times this year and hopefully it helps him. He never really got his chance to be mentored year one. Now he has a year to watch these things and I hope coaches watch tape with him and point these things out to him instead of just forgetting about him this season.
     
  15. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I wasn't a fan of him coming out of Portland state, thought he wouldn't amount to much, he made me eat some crow..but I'm just not a fan of the way he moves, nor his body..hope he makes me eat more crow.

    CK brought up an interesting point...He said that, Thomas is a rebounder, so just put him in in goal red zone situations and let him box out and rebound..
     
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  16. bakedmatt

    bakedmatt Well-Known Member

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    This is not a case of Ian being premature. He would tell you about Julius Thomas' last three years.

    If Thomas has a good year, it should be a surprise.
     
  17. sandcastle

    sandcastle Active Member

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    I think Thomas adds a big possession receiver component to the offense. At the top of his 7-10 yard routes, his post-up basketball skills are evident as he gets the defender to lean one way as he cuts the other way; strongly continuing as he makes the catch and a football move. If Thomas delivers, then LBs/Safeties are less likely to meet Ajayi at the LOS and underneath crossing routes to Landry & Parker could turn into big plays.

    There were lots of positives for the receiving corp from the Eagles game. Getting open on 3 out of 4 deep routes provides more space for the other receiving options as seen on the Landry chunk play at the end of the 1st half. It also seemed that starting and back-up receivers had more defined roles, which seems to be how Denver operated. Those Denver teams nor this Dolphins' team need Thomas to be a deep seam. Instead, his ability to locate the ball and finish plays is a nice addition for a team that has had TEs consistently drop passes and unable to turn their body to provide a target for the QB.

    Ajayi ability to break big plays when the defense loads the box may lessen the need for Thomas to be a decent blocker. I think Gase will bait the defense into loading the box by bringing in an extra OL. With less DBs, Ajayi can still take to the house while the passing game can take advantage of more space, less complex coverage, and match-ups. With a no huddle offense, a few quick passes to move the chains may proceed Ajayi's carries into a tiring defense.
     
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  18. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Thomas is a receiving TE, nothing more. He can't block nor was he brought in to block. He's a threat down the seam to give Cutler another target and with the threats we have a WR, he's going to be effective in that regard.

    Fasano will be doing most of the blocking on running plays requiring a TE set.
     
  19. Rickysabeast

    Rickysabeast Royale With Cheese

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    WAY too early to begin this nonsense. JT was never a preseason gamer. Plus we just switched QBs for gods sake. Lets at least wait and see how he does when it's for real.
     
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  20. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not trying to compare apples to avocados here but everyone loves to bring up the past I think I remember cutler and martellus bennet being a good combo, I think he could have a good year with cutler, I have a lot less faith in the fact that I don't think cutler can use landry or has never had a player like Landry so I am waiting to see how that one pans out, cutler has had players like Julius and parker but nothing like Landry. IMO!!
     
  21. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I saw Thomas get the ball twice last week- once on a misdirection route that the LB didn't fall for (got blown up for about a 1 yard gain) and a sweet TD catch where the defender had zero chance of stopping the play. For the TD route alone, I'd love to keep this guy on the roster for a high percentage goal line option. Even if that's all he does, it's a worthwhile investment.
     
  22. Phoenician Fan

    Phoenician Fan Well-Known Member

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    I can't for the life of me understand why we haven't signed Rashad Jennings and Gary Barnidge. The #1 pass blocking RB and the #1 pass blocking TE in the NFL.

    If they are serious about keeping Cutler healthy, then adding these two guys for 3rd and long would go along way towards Cutler staying alive, especially considering our O-line issues.

    Dolphins have spoken to Rashad Jennings, and I am really surprised Barnidge remains unsigned. Barnidge can still move; not sure he still has the 4.6 speed but he is a bona fide receiving threat as well.

    Jennings is also a decent receiver, but just like Williams, is ineffective when carrying the ball. The pass blocking is everything for a good 3rd down block, and Williams is still missing blitz pickups.

    Just trade Williams and save a couple mil and go with 3 RB's and 4 TE's.
     
  23. Triggercut

    Triggercut Well-Known Member

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    We've not even begun to begin!
     

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