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Just re-signed Jermon Bushrod...

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by hitman8, Mar 16, 2017.

  1. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Who here is happy with Bushrod and Larsen as our starting guards? They would be backups on most teams in my opinion.

    We passed on zeitler, lang, leary, warford, and warmack. All would have been significant upgrades and all have now signed with other teams and we are stuck with backup quality guards as our starters.

    We had more than enough cap room to sign at least one of the five I mentioned then draft another one. Now we are going into another season with crap guard play which messes up the whole offense.

    Hope RT got his knees insured for next season.

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    Last edited: Mar 16, 2017
  2. dolfan7171

    dolfan7171 Well-Known Member

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    Now can draft a couple of guards in the draft.

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  3. Electric Boogaloo

    Electric Boogaloo Inventor of the question mark

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    I think you're jumping off a cliff prematurely to presume incompetence. There is still a draft and vets that get released to pick from. I think it's safe to say one of Bushrod and Larsen will start, but we know that you can't fill every hole with free agency and be a long term successful roster. We hope we filled one, the other will come with bringing in competition and player development. We have lots of later round picks to bring in the future at guard as Oline is typically a position where draft grade and success is inexact.

    I have faith that Gase and Tann know that the near term leap will be carried by Ajayi and the success of the run game. I'm sure they're aware of it and focused on its success as much as we are. But something's got to give bc the defense requires(ed) major attention. Welcome to the NFL where you can't fill 22 starting spots without some gambles. No team is perfect in the off season.
     
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  4. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    You are not going to pick up two quality starting Guards in the draft. Especially given our atrocious record for drafting guards.

    We needed to get at least one quality starter at guard through free agency. We missed the boat on that one already. And with so many other needs on defense we can't devote two top picks to guards.

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  5. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I hope they work out a trade or something, but it would have been much easier signing one of the top five guards in free agency and then drafting another one instead of sitting on our pennies. We cant depend on the draft to fill our two starting guard spots plus fill all of our holes on defense.

    I do not consider either bushrod or larsen as being quality starters. They would both be backups on most other teams.

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  6. Electric Boogaloo

    Electric Boogaloo Inventor of the question mark

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    I hear you, but I'd guess that the Bushrod/Larsen signings say they disagree. I'd assume they think they've got one starter between the two of them. Now, if they think they've got two, I'm right there with you on the skepticism.

    What if the plan is to grab Lamp and then package 2nd and 3rd to trade up to the top of the 2nd for one of Cunningham, Davis, Reddick, etc on the likelihood that one slips or is available. Ruben Foster screwing the pooch probably pushes all of them down a few picks.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2017
  7. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well away from here
    Well, we may as well forfeit the season then huh? Come back from the ledge.
     
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  8. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Oh, come on. In the other thread where u were complaining u were saying the OL was more talented last year.. partly because we had Bushrod but let him go this year. He's back now, and you're still not happy???

    I'm pretty sure there will be a plan in place so Bushrod and Larsen aren't starters. Just because we sign a player in free agency doesn't mean he has to start.

    Calm down already. I'm not overly thrilled with his return because I don't think he was good, but just like last year... Better than what we had. There's plenty of time, and options still to help this group out.

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  9. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Damn right. I thought he was complaining that we let him go in the other thread.
     
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  10. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    He is better than what we had, but he is not a quality starter. He is a good backup with the versatility of being able to play tackle, but we should have signed somebody better than him and Larsen to be our top guards.



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  11. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    Not thrilled by this, but if it turns out to be more of a depth move? Not so bad. Maybe they just want to be able to go BPA in the first round and that means having at least a marginal starter for every spot on the OL.
     
  12. P h i N s A N i T y

    P h i N s A N i T y My Porpoise in Life

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    Being the mando fan that you are... I'm sure you've read his recent article pertaining to how little responsibility the guards have in this offense. Especially true against 3-4 Defenses, of which we face 8 in 2017. JBush's weakness is run blocking, but we managed just fine with him in 16. No harm in trying to look for an upgrade if the price is right. They knew he wanted back in, and would sign another deal similar to last years. ( 1yr / 1.45m )

    So it seems like they're planning to draft a guard high in the draft, but in reality that's just not Tbaum or Gase's style IMO.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2017
  13. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    are you LB´s Finest ? seriously ?
     
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  14. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I did catch that article, and I find the logic moronic. Since when is the season only eight games long? What about the other 8 teams we are going to play without 3-4 defenses? Don't we need some good guards to win those games or are we just shooting for .500 next season?

    Bushrod's problems were not only in the running game either, he was crap in pass blocking as well giving up several sacks, pressures and QB hits.

    Only reason they are resigning him is because they were too cheap to sign a quality guard and there is nobody else left by now.

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    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
  15. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    Lol...our atrocious history doesn't affect this team. It just affects the fans!
     
  16. Gaijin

    Gaijin Member

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    I'm not thrilled with having Bushrod back, he looked shot last season. He could serve as a backup but why take care of backups before we have starters? The idea of drafting another OL in the first round is gaining some traction.

    The strategy seems to be to avoid overpaying for a non premium position but on the other hand having good play from interior line could really benefit our offense... remember Bushrod is the one who allowed the pressure that got Tannehill on the sideline.
     
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  17. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Feline AIDS. You forgot to mention Feline AIDS.
     
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  18. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Who? Who else should we have signed?
     
  19. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    It's in the OP, I listed five different names.

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  20. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Actually, Grier and/or Tbaum were in on our Thomas, Turner and Douglas picks, so their lack of judgment regarding guard talent is still relevant.

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  21. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Zeitler got a $60,000,000 (avg. $12mil/season) contract...it's stupid to include him as an option.

    T.J. Lang signed a $30,000,000 (avg. $10mil/season) contract...it's stupid to include him as an option.

    Leary signed a $36,000,000 (avg $9mil/season) contract...it' stupid to include him as an option.

    Warford signed a $35,000,000 (avg. $9mil/season) contract...it's stupid to include him as an option.

    This is what your PFF has to say about Warmack:

    Warmack was supposed to be a sure thing coming out of Alabama. Mike Munchak and Ruston Webster made no secret of their love for him leading up to the draft. All of the “draft experts” loved him as well. I loved him because he came from Alabama- and because I thought he was going to be really, really good- “can’t miss” even.

    Well obviously it hasn’t worked out that way. For whatever reason it hasn’t clicked for him to this point. It is hard to believe that it will considering he is now in his 4th season. It seems safe to pencil in guard as one of the team’s top needs in the 2017 offseason.

    http://www.musiccitymiracles.com/20...e-minus-chance-warmack-grades-out-really-well

    (
    Add to it that he's coming off season ending surgery for a torn tendon in his hand)


    Try again.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
  22. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Bushrod didn't have the best season due to injuries and playing a new position but on day one he was a former pro bowl left tackle starting at guard.

    ---a hitman8 post from a few days ago


    Bwhahahaha

     
  23. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Offensive line: We let go of albert and bushrod and replaced them with Ted Larsen. We are right now worse on the OL talent wise.

    ---
    hitman8


    So, does anyone else besides me see trolling behaviors? Or is it a complain just to complain type of behavior?
     
  24. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    We had the money to pay any one of them including zeitler. We could have just taken the money we saved by letting go of an aging albert and invested in a top young guard. Free agent lineman in their primes are usually low risk investments compared to other positions. Lineman are usually consistently good or consistently bad, you don't usually see them turn it up in contract years then stink it up unless they are injured.

    Warmack is the worst of the bunch I mentioned but would still be an upgrade over bushrod and Larsen. He has not lived up to his first round grade but is still better than any guard we currently have on the roster and would have come cheap if that was our worry.

    Heck even bringing back John Jerry would have been better than what we have but he already resigned with the Giants also.

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  25. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Two days ago you were angry because you thought Bushrod was going to be let go. The Dolphins signed him and now you're angry again.

    Nice try, Mando.
     
  26. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I never said I was angry because he was let go. I said I was angry because we didn't sign anybody better.

    I am actually happy to have bushrod back as a cheap and versatile backup, but not as one of our starting day one guards. Same goes for Larsen, good backup, not a good starter.

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  27. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Your past posts betray you.
     
  28. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    No they don't, that is if you had any reading comprehension.

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  29. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Look, Mando, just because you're a hack writer (who can't spell al lot) doesn't mean you know anything about football.

    You complained when you thought Bushrod was a goner and now you're complaining about Bushrod not being a goner. You're trolling...at best.
     
  30. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Didn't see that, thanks. All good names. All of course... from the top of the free agency pool at the position. The issue becomes the almighty dollar.

    So, if we signed Zeitler... who were we not going to sign/re-sign? Stills? Jones? Landry next year? Couldn't afford that deal and both of those guys. No chance.

    Same goes for Leary really. His cap hit on the deal he signed is 8.4-9.4 million per season. Same question at above likely applies.

    Lang would have been a good one... but again, that deal he struck. Far too rich. 3 years, 28.5m with 19m guaranteed, with a cap hit of 5.9, 10.9, 11.7. Just, not something we are in the position of doing IMO.

    Warford went for 4 years, 34 million with 17 guaranteed, 8.5m average, cap hits of 3.5, 9, 10.5 and 10.6. Again, too rich for us.
    Warmack is the exception here. Would have loved that deal, but you could easily make the argument he's on the same level as they guys we presently have. He's not been what anyone thought he would be, he's struggled. Who knows, maybe we reached out to him, maybe we didn't, maybe he wasn't interested, or maybe we weren't based on his film or fit. Obviously I can't answer that, but I'm not sure he would have been the kind of upgrade we're looking for.

    These guys all got significantly overpaid. Would it have been nice to add them? Absolutely, they're good players. At what cost though? There's this thing called a salary cap. The fact of the matter here is this roster has been pretty bare in a lot of area's for quite sometime. It precedes this front office group, and definitely this coaching staff. It's going to take time to fix, but you can't fill every hole on your roster by throwing money at it in free agency. Especially not at the deals those guys you mentioned all got. Maybe if you weren't planning on keeping both Stills and Jones, but that would have been a foolish plan. You've got a big money deal coming up for Landry as well. You've got to manage the cap, you can't just throw money everywhere, especially when you're competing for these guys with teams that had far more salary cap space available than we did.

    There's some talented kids in this draft along the OL. I think we proved last year that we could make due. Our depth is better this year. Also, along the OL, it's not always the best talent that's required, it's the best unit, and how well they function together. I think if they snag one of the inside guys in the draft, you slot him in at LG, Bushrod or Larsen, or even Urbick/Steen fill in at RG and you can make due with that. The nice thing about Bushrod, Larsen, Steen and Urbick is their position flexibility. I'm not going to say we'll have a great OL, who knows really? However, I'm not sure that's it's going to be horrific either. I'm almost positive we'll bolster this unit through the draft, and as other teams make cuts through the summer. Sure, I see the cause for concern, but not the panic.

    It's a hell of a lot easier said than done to say we should have signed a combination of those guys you listed. This isn't Madden, you can't turn off the salary cap. You have to plan accordingly and budget your position groups accordingly. They clearly don't put a lot of stock into over paying at the Guard position. I'm not sure that can really be disagreed with either. Some of the money those guys got, is just far too rich IMO.
     
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  31. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Show me where I am complaining about bushrod being a goner? My complaint was that we have not upgraded the o-line over what we had last year.

    Specifically I said our five starters last year including bushrod were better than what we have now. Unless you want to bring albert back also that is still the case.

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  32. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's only the case because we haven't filled the LG spot yet. Clearly they're comfortable with Bushrod, or Larsen & company at RG at this point. Albert was a goner regardless of what you want to think. I don't believe there was any way he was coming back here, but I covered that for you in the other thread. So, you add a LG in the draft, probably another interior lineman too if you can. It will be fine. You could also make the argument we may be better off. Sure, Tunsil was good at LG, but he was even better IMO at LT. He was by far better at LT IMO than Albert was. So, that's an upgrade at LT. It creates the hole at LG, but that was happening regardless, there's no way Albert was going to stay at his price tag, and it doesn't look like he wanted to switch to LG either, but with his injury history he may have been a wasted roster spot again as he continues to age.
     
  33. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Offensive line: We let go of albert and bushrod and replaced them with Ted Larsen. We are right now worse on the OL talent wise.

    ---
    hitman8
     
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  34. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, you will notice I included albert and that my gripe is that we did not get better, not that we let them go.

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  35. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    You make some good points, but it was still doable. Even right now we have enough cap room to sign another big free agent and still sign all of our draft picks. If we hadn't overpaid for branch we would be in even better shape.

    If you ask me I would not commit a lot of money to extending Landry right now. We are deep at reciever and already invested big on stills. However we are very thin on the line with no starting quality guards on the roster and a very injury prone Pouncey at center. I would have much rather invested in a top guard who would secure us at the position for five years and figure out the landry situation next year. Losing landry wouldn't be the end of the world if he is asking for too much of a payday since we have parker, stills and caroo already locked up and invested for the future.

    Bad guard play on the other hand is one of the biggest reasons our offense has struggled the last few years and we should not be undervaluing that position.

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    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
  36. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Riiiiiight...

    Explain your way out of this one:

    Bushrod didn't have the best season due to injuries and playing a new position but on day one he was a former pro bowl left tackle starting at guard.

    ---a hitman8

     
  37. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, I was referring to my evaluation of the talent on the oline on day one of last year, which was better than what we have right now, again that was including albert. Notice I never once said bring bushrod back as a starter, I simply said the oline on day one last year was better than what we have now.

    Bushrod then proceeded to have a terrible season and showed we cannot depend on him to be a quality starter. I repeat I am happy bushrod is back as a versatile backup, but I would not depend on either him or larsen to be our starting guards.

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  38. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Not doable in the least. Unless you're OK with the never ending (failing) cycle of overpaying FA's? I would guess you don't even understand that that has been the MO for the Dolphins for awhile.

    Branch wasn't/isn't overpaid. He's a middle of the road DE getting middle of the road pay. I'm not sure how many times you need to have that explained to you, but it's been at least 100 now.

    Your comment about Landry is just, well, confusing. And weren't you one of those whining about Carroo and Parker? lol...If not I apologize.

    The REAL facts are, the Dolphins have a lot of holes to fill. Filling one or two with overpriced players, as we did in the past, will get them nowhere. Building through the draft while placing stop gaps via FA is the right move. And, sometimes those FA's turn out to play above their grades. And, once again, they're cheap. The Dolphins have had a good starting OL the past couple of years. Keeping them healthy and having reliable back-ups is the key. Do you know what the Dolphins' record is when their OL has been healthy the past couple of years?
     
  39. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    So Bushrod is no longer a "Pro Bowl" caliber O Lineman? He's had a year to learn the new position, after all. And he's healthy. lol...

    You paint yourself into a corner and don't care that you're now tracking paint all over your house. lol
     
  40. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    That specific post, was referencing my evaluation of bushrod before last season. At that specific point in time. I had never actually seem him play guard before at that time, it's true he is supposedly healthy now and could be better this year, but we should not depend on him to be the starting option going in given how he actually played.

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