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Just re-signed Jermon Bushrod...

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by hitman8, Mar 16, 2017.

  1. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    The problem though is our crappy draft picks this year, we only have 2 normal picks in the first 4 rounds, a late 1st, a late 2nd and 1 comp pick in the 3rd, after all other teams 3rd round picks, then we don't draft again until late in the 5th.

    So basically there are 2-3 picks we expect to become starters this year, we certainly can't count on any of the remaining picks, not to say we won't get a gem or 2, but we can't count on those picks as potential starters.

    So with the lack of bodies on D, can we really even commit 1 of those first 3 picks on a G?

    I guess it's just a pick your poison type deal, but I would have liked to see them get a real OG through FA.
     
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  2. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We don't really have all that space you seem to think we do to sign one of these big free agents. Branch isn't being overpaid really. Who else was going to play DE opposite Wake? We have nobody after Wake really. Branch was needed, played well in the system, and was by all accounts a fantastic locker room guy and team mate. His salary isn't bad at all IMO. Maybe a touch high, but nothing that's going to free up enough space to bring on one of the guys you wanted with 8-12 million cap hits. It's just not doable. Clearly when they're still looking to sign a DT to add to the rotation given our chase of Dontari Poe recently too. To me that indicates the focus is likely on that OL come draft time.

    Invested big on Stills? It's not that big at all actually. Not invest in Landry? I'm starting to think you might be a bit... well, nevermind.

    I'm not disagreeing about undervaluing the Guard position, however what you're advocating for here IMO is OVER paying, and valuing the Guard position. If we were one player or two players away... Sure. I get it. If we had $100m in cap space and were about to likely bring in a rookie at QB like the Browns. Sure. We're just not in a position to throw that kind of money around. The better approach here is to find some bargain guys who can play, clearly the FO think's they're doing that, and draft someone to play the position effectively, and cheap.

    As for the Cap, we have approx. $20m from what I see. Tie up about 7 to draft picks that leaves you 13ish. They probably want to carry some over to next year with Landry's deal looming, you need to leave yourself a buffer as well for other moves you may need to, or want to make due to injuries and cuts etc. So how exactly are you planning on adding a 8-10 million cap hit either now, or in the future? It likely would be smaller this year based on structure of the deal, but how do you absorb that in the future?

    There's a lot more to consider than just the here and now with this, I'm not sure you're factoring that all in. It's not as easy as that.
     
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  3. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    All fair points too IMO. I think they're just really hamstrung though right now by the cap and being able to afford those top tier Guards.

    Personally, I'm not so sure about the defensive holes. I'd be willing to bet they keep Misi at this point unless a LB they really love is there at 22. You can work with Misi, Alonso & Timmons. It's by far better than what we had last year, especially since Misi was hurt. That's the problem with him though, he's an injury concern just getting out of bed. I think they risk it though.

    I think they'll be fine with their CB's.

    I'd think they have a concern at Safety. I hope Nate Allen isn't their answer there, but they gave him a decent chunk of cash if I'm not mistaken. That didn't look like a backup deal to me.

    Our defense was pretty decimated last year simply because of injuries. The entire back end was out basically. The entire LB corps were basically out. However, keep in mind. We're essentially adding Jones, Misi, Timmons, and now Allen to the defense. Those guys missed considerable time, or they weren't here last year and their spots were filled by guys like Bacarri Rambo, Walt Aikens, Michael Thomas, Spencer Paysinger, Mike Hull, etc, etc... need I go on with the list of depth guys, that had to start?

    The defense appeared to have a lot of holes last year mostly due to injury. The DL needs a depth/rotational guy at DT, probably another DE for depth too. On the roster, if Misi stays you have 3 starting LB's basically. They seemed satisfied with their CB play even though there were rumors of acquiring one. You get Jones back. You're essentially getting starting caliber guys at each spot. Now, I get it, they're not all elite, and some are still injury concerns. You cant fix the whole roster and it's years and years worth of problems that fast. You've got to roll with some of these guys regardless.

    I'd be shocked if we don't used those 5's and 7's either to get back up and pick earlier for a guy they covet.

    There's a lot of options IMO.
     
  4. TheOne

    TheOne Active Member

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    Would you folks on here take Jermin Bushrod as a starter over Dallas Thomas? I sure as hell would.
     
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  5. danmarino

    danmarino Justice for Jacob Blake Club Member

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    I would. 100%...
     
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  6. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but saying he is better than Dallas Thomas isn't saying much. Dallas is out of the league, doesn't make bushrod a quality starter at guard. He would be a backup on most teams, so would Larsen.

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  7. Electric Boogaloo

    Electric Boogaloo Inventor of the question mark

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    I see this as very, very simple. On offense, we're set ( or as set as any NFL team can expect) at QB, WR, RB, TE, OT and C if you take a leap of faith on a healthy/productive Pouncey. Question marks at OG. That's 2 holes out of 11

    On a defense ranked 29th in yds allowed, you're set at 3DT, 1DT, DE w Branch, CB with Howard, Lippett, McCain and Maxwell, one safety in Jones, and one LB in Kiko. Throw in one of Wake and/or Timmons who are ancient and we should expect one (if not both) to fall off. That's 4 holes out of 11. Add to that this group was not terribly good last year to start with, Jones is coming off serious injury, Phillips is flashing but still a question mark, Timmons is on the decline, Wake is bound to slide sometime and you always rotate a minimum of 6 guys on the DL and it's very easy to see why they're not throwing all their Salary cap chips at offense.
     
  8. Gaijin

    Gaijin Member

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    Compared to Dallas Thomas pretty much every warm body looks like Will Shields. Bushrod is still a guy we could improve on and was mulling retirement so thinking he could be a down grade from last season is legitimate, unfortunately we were never in the market with the current salaries. We will likely try to scoop up some cheap guys with a hint of upside, the main issue in the OL is still IF pouncey can recover from his hip problem. With him full strength everything is better


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  9. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Dallas is an Eagle.
     
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  10. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Didn't know that, I don't really keep up with dallas's career. Anyway he still sucks and saying bushrod is better tham him is not saying much at all.

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  11. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    We still have too many holes and we sat on alot of money we could have used in free agency. Maxing out the cap this year should not have been a problem since the cap will most likely be raised again next year. I wouldn't even count on misi, if he stays healthy its a plus but we need to get another quality starter at LB to be sure, especially one that has some speed and can really cover which we dont have now. We also still need two more quality starters at guard (bushrod and Larsen are not), a quality starter at free safety (allen is not), a 2b DT, another backup DE, and another depth cb who can compete with mcain for the nickel spot.

    We are not going to fill all those needs in the draft. We were too timid and stingy in free agency and now we are in a tough spot. Unless we work out some genius trades or quality veterans get released we are going into the season with some major concerns at a couple of positions.



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    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
  12. danmarino

    danmarino Justice for Jacob Blake Club Member

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    Yes....I know.
     
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  13. danmarino

    danmarino Justice for Jacob Blake Club Member

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    lol....Whatever, Mando. Sat on a lot, huh? lol...OK.


    And once again.."A lot" is two words...

    lol
     
  14. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Big f'n deal. Hope you are proud of yourself for being my personal spell checker.

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  15. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Again, you're way off base IMO.

    Spending to the max, just because the cap is "likely" to increase again is irresponsible. Completely irresponsible. So, we role with 13m now approx (after signing draft picks). You sign everyone we did, along with a Guard that you wanted at 8-10m cap hit you're left with what... 5ish?. You're likely going to spend some of that 5 through the year to replace injured players, however, because you apparently invision this perfect world, we can just pretend nobody gets hurt and keep that full $5m. So combine that, with lets guess here... a $10m cap increase, then add in the increased cap hits for the players already under contract for next year... I dont know that figure, and I'm not about to look it up, because you should see already how what you're advocating for just likely doesn't work.

    Good teams don't win championships by buying them in free agency. They develop a good program, draft well, build within, keep their own effective players, sign a couple free agents, typically at good deals similar to what we've done this year, and they keep building on the cheap. It goes against everything we've done, and the desire to just spend spend spend and buy players. However, that's what we have been doing, and where has that gotten us? Not very far yet.

    I think you should take a look at how the cap effects this roster, and the current players under contract. I think once you look at that, see how it changes year to year based on current contracts, and how you actually have to... plan ahead based on the cap, not just sit at your computer, or on your phone and say we should have signed this guy, or that guy without really look at the numbers and the effect.

    Believe me, I'm not disagreeing with your desire to want a qualified guard on the roster. It was near the top of my FA wants too. I'm just saying, you need to look at the bigger picture here as to why it wasn't done that way, then it should make some more sense.
     
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  16. dolfan7171

    dolfan7171 Well-Known Member

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    I think it's possible to get some quality guards in the draft. Some no name player might be the one we need at guard.

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  17. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    The curse of J-Mart?

    We haven't been able to get a good G since he got the last good G we had kicked off the team.
     
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  18. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    This is the biggest problem I have with this regime. Quality players at a Major position of need were available and they passed on them in hopes that backup players will elevate to starter level of production. Any of the free agents that were available would have been an upgrade. So now everyone is saying Draft blah blah blah this team has too many key holes to address in the draft to make us a top tier team unless they don't entend to be. Sure we filled in some depth but counting in draft players to be immendiayr impact players in all our needed positions is a pipe dream. We might get 1-2 starters MAYBE or we could have gotten talents known entity's and improved the team for a run at the Super Bowl.

    What I'm hearing from these moves is this is a 3-4 year process and we're moved by slowly towards that don't expect us to be great.
     
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  19. iamtiv

    iamtiv Active Member

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    The positives are: #1) letting him walk would've been dumb considering how much value/cost we're getting out of him. #2) another year in the same offense, against at least 3 teams he knows well (6 games), #3) relatively good health.

    His pricetag is so low that the signing is completely non-prohibitive in terms of other roster moves that can be made to improve the team.
     
  20. iamtiv

    iamtiv Active Member

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    Of all the expensive FA guards that were signed, how many of them have cloudy injury history, too?
    A great player still sucks if he's hurt and not in the lineup, and if that guy cost a lot of $$ and cap space, then it's a double-hit.

    Look at T.J. Lang. Good luck, Detroit.
     
  21. iamtiv

    iamtiv Active Member

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    My hope is that Bushrod, a guy who had the athleticism to be a great LT for a period of time in his career, has now played enough guard to really assess what needs to be done for him to be more successful. Experience is important and I'm hoping JB's experience will translate to fewer missed assignments, quicker adjustments and allow him to 'play faster' which could really help.
    Guys were NFL tackles because they were often better athletes than the guards at various levels of their development.
    If his legs have slowed down to a point that they've negated his previous athletic prowess then it would've been crazy to re-sign him. Let's just hope there'e enough in the physical tank to allow his mental growth at that specific position to bear fruit this season.
     
  22. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Lang was the only one with a significant injury history. All the other top FA guards have been healthy.

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  23. danmarino

    danmarino Justice for Jacob Blake Club Member

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    Well, if I go by your "top FA guards", out of the 5 you listed I know for a fact that Leary and Warmack have both missed a total of at least 32 games the last 2 seasons. And TJ Lang has only missed something like 5 games in the last 6 seasons.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
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  24. phins18

    phins18 Active Member

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    This is a horrible signing if they have any possibility of him starting. He was the worst guard in the league last year. Injuries were the main reason our line stunk yet again aside from like a 4 game stretch, but this guy was another black hole, just like almost every single guard addition we have made for a 5 year stretch now, and he was also a huge reason why our running game was consistently inconsistent and why Tannehill was consistently pressured up the middle and couldnt step up in the pocket. He was flat out terrible
     
  25. sandcastle

    sandcastle Active Member

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    Offensive lines look better if the play calling is less predictable and more balanced between run/pass. The team has put its resources toward WRs/TEs for a ball-possession passing game with the ability to take the top off the defense. With a RB that doesn't need much of hole to be productive, the strategy may be best in a salary cap league.

    Playoffs were achieved due to surprising contribution of offensive linemen from the bottom of the depth chart. A lesson learned is veteran linemen with average or below average skills do not completely blow plays as than those we've drafted after the 1st round. Ideally, Urbik, Steen, and Young will not have start as many games; and perhaps Bushrod's snaps are limited to improve is play, but the key may be that the depth prevents a rookie lineman from playing time until they outperform the vet.

    The article's tidbit on the breakdown of 3/4 defenses the team faces may be more interesting if it applies to Pouncey. Perhaps, this provides an opportunity for Mike to line up uncovered, whereas Larsen plays center against 3/4 NT with Pouncey at LG and the inverse against 4-3 DLs. With athletic tackles and a pulling interior lineman, the limitations of the other 2 starting interior linemen may not be as visible.
     
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  26. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    You are a real piece of work, missing games doesn't necessarily mean it was due to injury. Leary missed games in 2015 because lael collens took his starting spot away from him. Last year leary started every game after collins got injured. Warmack is the only one who has missed significant time due to significant inury.

    Kevin zeitler hasnt missed a game in his career and is only 26, Larry Warford has started every game except 4 during his 4 year career and is only 25.

    I included lang as an injury concern not because of games missed but because he had a significant recent injury to his hip which caused him to miss a playoff game last season and required hip surgery this offseason.

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