http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=4661
Alex Magee a Rook is starting ahead of Dorsey, who many on this board liked going into Draft 08, but to me if that report is accurate Haley doing it wrong.
(source:
http://chiefsblog.kansascity.com/?q=node/885)
To me, if Dorsey stays in the doghouse, I'd like to have him in Miami, all Haley is doing is alienating the young man imho.
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Dorsey's had a leg injury this off-season. He's one of three (EDIT: Column says five. I've read three. My mistake.) players who failed the conditioning test, including Ron Edwards. Difference being that Edwards is healthy I believe and Dorsey is not.
I loved Magee coming out. 1 gap end IMO. He could do that job pretty well. -
Well, it still is odd that Haley would be just brutal to Dorsey, it's situations like this that players can be had on the cheap, New Coach, New Scheme, left over highly paid player the Coach has -0- invested in.
The GM has nothing invested in Dorsey either. -
How unusual is it? Haley's one of the more straight forward coaches in this league and he's not shy about running his mouth at you. I assume that Haley is upset with Dorsey because he did fail the conditioning test. However, the column doesn't state anywhere about Dorsey's leg injury this off-season, which is why I don't see him being in the dog house. However, I've been wrong many times before.
Cheap? They shopped him this off-season and asked for a 1st and 3rd rounder.Big E likes this. -
If they cut Dorsey, I'll welcome him with open arms. And if he pans out.....
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Hmmm...out of curiousity Alen, have you ever heard of a coach treating a player in that manner before?
For a top 5 pick? That is cheap Alen, Say the 28th and the 87th would be a dirt cheap price, the only issue would be the top 5 pick contract.
If Glenn Dorsey was available at the 25th pick in the last draft, he would have been viewed as a steal. -
I don't think Haley's doing anything wrong. The journalist suggests that Haley might be humiliating Dorsey by giving him extra workouts, which I'm not sure is a bad thing because Dorsey didn't past the rigorous conditioning test. He needs to get in shape. The only thing that could stand out to me as cruel is if Haley is yelling at Dorsey in between each session, which the column states is happening but it wouldn't surprise me if that's being blown out of proportion because Haley's attitude is significantly different from Herm Edwards, which I'm sure journalists grew accustomed to.
Do you honestly think this regime would give up two picks for a guy who's strength is charging gaps, which he may not do here? There was a quote that Disgustipate posted about a week or so ago that said we were likely moving more toward a 2 gap front (we used quite a bit of 1 gap last year), which I personally don't think Dorsey would be best fit at. If he's going to be playing in a 3-4 scheme in this league, I think he's going to have to play in a 1 gap front where he's either at the five technique or he's lined up as a three (maybe four) technique in a reduced front. Just my 2 cents.
I also don't see this regime giving up two picks for anyone. -
What I think is normally when a guy fails his conditioning drills, which can happen to the big fellas, they typical are run to death, seriously, gassers, wind sprints, jog jog jog, rid the bike etc.
Haley (imo) is dreaming stuff up for Dorsey to do in order to make an example out of him.
I would say that depends ( :wink2: ) on whether or not Sparano and Ireland and Tuna liked what they saw out of Dorsey during the workouts before the 08 draft, if they thought he could play 1 or 2 gap, and had nice passrushing potential from the base 3-4, then sure, I could see the move being made.
Well, if Dorsey was traded, Pioli would have to move him at an reduced price, underachieving top 5 picks who show up to Camp out of shape do not have a large market, I could see bundling some players and a pick for Dorsey.
"But" currently Pioli is fishing for scraps from the Patriots roster cast offs, they signed Guiterrez to compete with Thigpen and Croyle. -
Ah Glenn Dorsey yes I remember saying he will struggle early in his career and getting hounded over at the other site.
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I thought Dorsey had nice movement for a man his size, my downside with him was the injuries.
Did not peg him as the type to show up to camp out of shape. -
Before OTA's, before training camp, Haley came in and the first thing he said to all 53+ players on that team was to get their rear's in shape. There was a full article on it all over the web about how a lot of the players were responding very well to it and how the leader of that was Branden Albert, who was overweight last year at left tackle and Haley wanted him slimmer. All of these guys, including Dorsey, had the chance to get in shape at one point this off-season. Just about every single one of them did except for five and one of those five was Dorsey, who, I think its safe to say, is going to be a vital part of their defense next year because they need players to get after the quarterback and hold up blocks. They had ten sacks last year as a team. When you're counted on as an expected leader of the defense and you fail to fulfill that expectation before you even get to the dirty work, then you're going to be made an example of and in my opinion, that's what Haley may be doing here.
I think he can play one gap but apparently we may be going away from that. Personally, this is just my opinion, but I wouldn't be thrilled with the idea of Dorsey playing in a 2 gap front because his talents wouldn't be used to full potential. He charges gaps and in a 2 gap, if he's lined up head on blockers, he's not going to be doing that for me. Its why I said he belongs in a 1 gap 3-4 as a 5 technique or as a 3 (or 4) technique in a reduced front. If we're going away from his strengths then why would we ship off two draft picks for him to be something he isn't?
Yes and no. Dorsey's value would likely take a hit because of this off-season drama, however if there's one thing that many around the league know, its that Pioli is a tough negotiator and doesn't let his players go unless he gets what he wants. The Falcons offered a 1st rounder and a 3rd rounder during the draft and he said no. Also, the money that's involved in this situation is significant in my eyes. Teams don't want to take on that cap number and it was proved earlier this off-season where in that same Atlanta - Kansas City proposal, the Falcons said we'll only do it if you take on the $18M guaranteed of Dorsey's money and right there, the discussions fell through. -
You did mention he was injured..yes?
Because during the scouting in 2008 we believed he could play one or two gap?
Which is odd because the falcons #1 pick was going to get guaranteed money anyway, a trade for #1's means Dorsey would come in at a price much lower than 18 millie, more like 11 million or so.
Which is a steep discount for a top 5 pick.
Eh, no matter, at the end of day, Dorsey was not what most people thought he would be prior to Draft 2008, and HC Haley has a sadistic streak. -
Still effected him though, or may have.
Are you serious?
Any such scouting we did would be kept in house Alen, this is the Staff that doesn't want twittering during practices, do you really think they'd just release that to the web?
The Falcons #1 pick would also have a signing bonus, that would come off of the top of Dorsey's 18 million in a pick(s) for a player trade.
WAG but wouldn't a early 20's pick have a 7 million dollar or so signing bonus? heck a #3 pick has a one million or more, because the Falcons would not have to pay those bonuses because they traded the picks, that is less money they'd have to spend as they got Dorsey and his 18 million.
Hmmm...I wouldn't say judge, but even Warren Sapp did not have these sorts of issues when he was a newbie in the NFL. -
"We" as in the Staff, think of it as the regal "We".
Which makes the money a sort of non issue really.
Heck, Roddy White is now demanding 10 million per season, the Birds must have some extra cap space. -
When I talked to Bill last night he mentioned they looked at Glenn Dorsey but didn't like the...
:lol:
Of course the staff here Alen, they banned twitter, they rarely offer commentary on different players than those on the roster already. -
Alen...dude...it's speculation....we have no idea what they thought about GD, but for all we know they may have liked him as a 1 or 2 gap player and would make a trade if the price was right.
Good players make plays, 1 gap, 2 gap, whatever, that is what talent does for a player. -
You're original post didn't say anything about speculation. You simply said that in 2008 during scouting, they believed he could play 1 or 2 gap. I assumed you heard or read them say it.
I think talent and the scheme have to match. You can't put a guy out of position and expect him to be a quality player. -
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On a three front he HAS to play end, he's just not big enough to be a Nose....and he's quick enough to play end, I dont like him on a three front, personally, but its the new thing....so.
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I think its a matter of personal choice. We saw Darnell Dockett play nose tackle in Arizona's 3-4 front's last year and that was because they played a 1 gap from what I saw and that allowed him to play 1 technique. Not to mention, he's strong as hell. I think Dorsey can do the same, I just wonder how long he holds up at that spot and how the team fares against the run. I could be wrong here but I can't imagine him lasting the whole season at nose tackle in a 3-4, whether it be one gap or two gap. Its why I think we'll see a hybrid front from Clancy Pendergast once again. He doesn't have the horses to run a full-time 3-4 and I also think Dorsey is best fit at end for them. We'll probably see 3-3-5 from them as well, like we saw in Arizona last season.
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got my eye on two guys in the dog house now:
Glenn Dorsey & McFadden:yes:
PS Dorsey played DT not DE & could be a protype NT for Miami
never know when an acorn will drop from the NFL tree