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Keller Done For The Year (Tears ACL/MCL/PCL knee dislocated)

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by slickj101, Aug 18, 2013.

  1. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    the head and knees or ankles have the least amount of force on a person. if you're outweighed by alot you usually look to hit someone where you can bring them down but take the least amount of punishment in doing it. I wouldve pissed my pants if i had to tackle earl campbell back in the day and he had a full head of steam and coming right at me. no way would i have tried tackling him by the numbers. wouldve stayed away from his knees too. it wouldve been ankles or head shot
     
  2. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Yes b/c this is exactly the type of thing I had a gripe with when watching his college tape. Go through the draft thread and you'll see Boomer and I both heavily criticizing his tackling [or lack there of]. The kid never met a proper tackle he liked. He was either headhunting, launching himself at receivers & ball carriers, or standing around watching others making plays and then piling on at the end. The common response by fans who wanted to draft him was that it's no big deal b/c it can be coached up in the NFL. Now here Swearinger is a few games removed from college and he's already ruined a player's season [possibly his career] and ridiculously blames the NFL rule change for it, so yes- I would give a poop if it happened to a different player. I know he's a Gamecock but I'd feel he's a douche of a player either way.
     
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  3. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    That makes no sense though. How can you hit someone in the head without being hit by the rest of their body? There's no way you're hitting a player in the head and not making contact with the rest of their chest, arms, etc. in the position Swearinger was in.

    Saying this wasn't dirty is an agenda driven argument and that agenda is not the truth of this specific play.
     
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  4. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Exactly. This guy gets off on being a headhunter and only trying to blow up guys with hits instead of tackles.

    All of his draft reports read just like this: http://www.nfldraftgeek.com/djswearingerscoutingreport.html

    Guy has always been a douche.
     
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  5. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    i'm not talking about that play specifically but rather in general. i didnt see the play in question. my point is only when you're smaller on the field there are some tricks you use to preserve your body
     
  6. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Aiming at the head does not preserve your body. Leading with your head not preserve your body.

    There is no rational argument for the tackle that was made. There is, however, plenty of emotional ones.

    And here is the play in question..again.....

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    You know what hasn't been talked about? Keller decides to do his 270 degree spin when he sees where the ball has been thrown. He plants his leg and spins clockwise to line his body up north south when he lands. Cool idea... bad result.
     
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  8. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    It hasn't been talked about because there is nothing to about that, that is discussion worthy. Its fairly common. Targeting someone's knee is not.
     
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  9. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    It's already been talked about by GMJ. Keller probably had no idea Swearinger was there.
     
  10. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Of course. It's called a guilty conscience. Maybe it'll motivate him to learn how to tackle so he doesn't needlessly ruin someone else's season.
     
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  11. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Don't think it was a guilty conscience at all, but rather some sense of decorum in being what was expected of him...

     
  12. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    I'll say it again. Keller planted at the same time as the hit. That is what caused the bad injury.
    Otherwise we wouldn't be talking about this.
     
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  13. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    I see the defender lowering his shoulder and going low with no ill intent.
     
  14. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    What you're seeing is someone reckless, who is making a blind hit with no intent to tackle or wrap up the ball carrier. He simply dropped his shoulders and launched himself into Keller looking for a big hit. He did the same thing in college only he was notorious for going for the head and was fined and criticized repeatedly. I don't have an issue with him going low, though he made no attempt at a tackle, only the reckless way in which he drove his helmet and pads into Keller blindly.
     
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  15. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I don't see the same thing as you. Keller pirouetted b/c the location of the pass spun him around. What I see is Keller paying attention to the linebacker bearing down on him and unaware of the safety [Swearinger] to the backside of his catch diving at his knee. I'm sorry but I don't feel receivers & ball carriers should have to adjust their play style to accommodate cheap shot defenders. Keller shouldn't have to flop to the ground or let the pass go incomplete to allow Swearinger to continue his reckless play and not know how to tackle properly.

    I'll agree to disagree my brother. The air of caution should lie on the defender since he's the one initiating the contact. I think we simply have a different definition of the word restraint, and I don't consider "diving at a player's knee" as a kill shot. Yeah it might kill the other player's career but it's a reckless cheap shot not a kill shot. A kill shot would've been Swearinger running through Keller in physical wrap-up-tackle fashion, and he doesn't have to be a cheap shot artist to be an intimidator. Anyone who's been tackled by a defender who knows how to wrap up and drive through you knows that sh** doesn't feel good- you're back gets all stretched out'a whack, then you get plowed to the turf. You know what I'm talkin' bout. Swearinger can practice restraint and still knock the crap out of Keller. It's called knowing how to tackle and subsequently being in that mindset during game time.
     
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  16. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    it obviously was the intent. He chose to turn his head and launch his shoulder low. Like MrClean and I have been telling you- this is his MO since college, and there's NO excuse for it.

    who said anything about tacking high? ... or do you consider the thighs and waist as high?

    He turned his damn head and launched his shoulder low in reckless fashion rather than watching his target all the way through and making a proper tackle. He's been reckless like this since college so I'm not sure what's to not understand here. There's no place on the field for reckless defenders who have had all the time and opportunity in the world to learn how to tackle properly but never gave a moment's thought to it.

    That's not true. There's a difference between accidental contact and a reckless player injuring another b/c of his reckless play.
     
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  17. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    It makes perfect sense. Keller is in mid air, Swearinger lowers his shoulder at the point in which he anticipates Keller is going to touch the ground. If Swearinger hits him in the thigh, he undercuts Keller's body, and Keller is down. No injury. Instead, he gets him just low enough to take his knee out. Accidentally, not on purpose.

    When I first saw the play, my initial reaction was it was dirty. I was upset about Keller's season being over and was too emotional about it. The next day, I watched it over and over again, and I realized it was not intentional. Just a bad football play. I have no agenda other than calling it like I see it. In the end, there's no difference anyway, so I'm done debating. Keller's season/career is over. He's not coming back. Moving on.
     
  18. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    actually looks like a text book tackle to me. if you go high you run the risk that he bounces off and gains further yards. also looks like he hit his thigh

    edit: it's close. not sure if it's knee or thigh but as has been mentioned unfortunately it came just as keller planted
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2013
  19. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Obviously you're not reading through the posts to see what our reasoning is b/c we've offered up significantly more than just "he hurt my Dolphins player".
     
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  20. MAFishFan

    MAFishFan Team Tannehill

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    For those asking earlier in this thread about the NCAA and high hits, the NCAA for the 2011 and 2012 seasons began cracking down on targeting and using the crown of the helmet to hit. As a matter of fact, for the 2012 seasons they were looking for officials to throw more flags on RB's who lower their heads when they meet a defender (a pentaly that you will most likely never see). All of the NCAA football officials AND HS officials in Texas and Massachusetts (because we are the only 2 states to use the NCAA Rule Book) were sent a targeting and leading with the helmet video 2 weeks ago in preparation for this season because the rule has changed again. Starting this season, the NCAA rule says players who target (helmet to helmet, hitting a defenseless WR with the helmet or in the head) are to receive the customary 15 yard penalty for targeting PLUS an automatic ejection from that game. If the player is ejected in the 1st half, he misses the 2nd half AND the 1st half of the next game. It's a HUGE penalty this season. The NCAA has taken the NFL's lead on safety and gone the extra step with the ejection. they've also changed the blocking below the waist rules like they have for the last 3 seasons. That one is complicated and I don't think you want to read the entire rule. It makes the game more difficult for the officials to officiate, but it will help cut back on injuries to the head and lower extremities. I would not be surprised to see BBW removed from the NCAA game with the exception of players on offense, on the line of scrimmage and within the tackle box (ie. Tackles, guards, center and TE).
     
  21. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    That's what I'm saying. Keller is a savvy vet, he MUST have been confused about the situation. If a WR is running over the middle and the QB throws low he should understand there is LB/S headed his way and he needs to get down. RT thew Keller away from the safety and for some reason Keller thought he had more time to protect himself time than he really did.
     
  22. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    but the rule is meant to limit injuries, not redirect them. Swearinger is using it as an excuse to be reckless down low instead of toward the head & neck like he was in college. "See what you made me do, NFL, it's all your fault Keller's career is over when I could've just given him a concussion instead". It's like he thinks the NFL took away head-hunting just to be dickish toward defenders and make their lives more complicated. The only thing Swearinger demonstrated during his "tackle" is that he's reckless and doesn't know how to tackle.

    Swearinger whining: "Damn you for taking away head shots, NFL"
    Swearinger whining: "Damn you for taking away launching at the knees, NFL"
    Swearinger whining: "Damn you for taking away thrust kicks to the groin, NFL".
    Swearinger whining: "Now how the heck do you expect us to get a guy down?!!"
    NFL: "how 'bout trying to tackle for once."
     
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  23. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I think we offered him also a multi-year deal, but he chose 1 yr, to prove himself and go for the big bucks next year. When he was interviewed after signing I heard him say, he chose to sign for 1 yr only. That he said "chose" would tell me he had a choice of something other than a 1 yr deal.
     
  24. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    This!!!!! :sad:
     
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  25. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I don't buy the guilty conscience for one second. He did it for appearances only. To act like he ******* cared.
     
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  26. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    No kiddin brother. I guess the sport of baseball is just a figment of our imaginations since a batter has a mere 0.4 seconds to hit a MLB fastball after assessing whether or not to swing in the first place.

    Baseball hitters have a 3 inch diameter to work with coming 95 MPH at them; you have an entire friggin' torso & thighs to work with plus can wrap up shins & ankles, so STHU, quit being a baby about it, and learn how to form tackle.... would be my twitter response to Swearinger. That and I won't shed an "aww poor guy" the day you become a permanent sippy cup drinker.
     
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  27. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Text book fooking tackle??? What text book teaches that? Face up, squared up, wrap up. That is text book. Not lowering your head and throwing your body around recklessly.
     
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  28. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I think Keller's knee would disagree with you Prez. :lol:
     
  29. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    ...that, or Keller wasn't expecting the safety to hurl himself headfirst like a projectile into his knee. I don't think Keller or any NFL tight end for that matter has the type of wimpy mentality that would shy away from being hit by a rookie free safety.
     
  30. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    There are no rookie or veteran ACLs, there are only ACLs.

    Protect yourself at all times applies to football as well as boxing. I'm sure you've seen TEs dart into the flats thinking it's man coverage only to be blown up by the CB b/c it's actually Cover 2. I feel for Keller and more importantly for the team but that is basically what happened to him. Blame the defender all you want but Keller had enough time to protect himself and got blown up b/c he used that time poorly. I understand that's a clinical way to look at an issue that many people view emotionally but at the end of the day there's no time to gripe about it, he's gone. The 1 year experiment with Keller is over. Time to start thinking about Clay, Sims, Egnew, Gisbon and anyone else that might be called upon to replace Keller's production.
     
  31. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    LOL. What you see is the defender targeting the knee. There is no possible reason to go that low.
     
  32. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I'm not being emotional. I don't think Keller being out hurts as much as others do.

    Watch Swearinger's head. He is looking at Kellers knee the entire time. You hit where you're looking.

    Text book? What?

    Text book is coming low and launching higher in to the core and wrapping up, that way you accomplish hitting a bigger target area, possibly dislodging the ball and securing the ball carrier.
     
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  33. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    Agreed. There is nothing in the tackling textbook that covers that. Those are the types of hits the coaches constantly ***** to their players about because they aren't wrapping up and too often the player gets away...............if you aren't crippling them first ;p
     
  34. camerons wake

    camerons wake Make a mtn outa Tannehill

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    Anyone who says the hit was not intentional is a straight up idiot... Swearinger basically admits it by saying that its the NFL rules that made him go low. That's a confession that he was aiming to undercut Keller.

    Lazy tackling? yes
    Intentional hit? yes
    Dirty? ...maybe... lets evaluate...

    I watched the replay of the game yesterday. For those of you that have the game saved, I recommend you watch what happens on the opening kickoff. Tell me that Swearinger isn't a dirty player after watching his kickoff coverage and after-the-play activities. He gets owned on coverage and has to shove a fins player from behind WELL after the play and then start jawing with him... why? Cuz he got handled on kick coverage.

    So he has that going for him.. he's already fired up and pissed off. So what does he do? As others have stated, there was no other thought in his mind other than going for the legs/knees of Keller on that tackle. He has them lined up before Keller even turns, and he dives low LEADING with his helmet.

    Does he show remorse to Keller or appear apologetic after it happens? No. Instead he blames the NFL rules. Yeah...

    My opinion (everyone is entitled to their own):

    The kid is a straight up @sswipe punk piece of sh!t that deserves both of his knees to get crippled the same way. Yes, the hit was dirty. Yes, I think he knew what he was doing and was trying to hurt him. *uck him!
     
  35. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    If that is the case, how does Swearinger's shoulder make contact on the knee when the foot is on the ground. He was going for the knee!


    If Swearinger were trying to make a tackle, he would have aimed no lower than where Keller's belt would have been. That is tackling. That is no longer practiced by the majority of DB or LB in the NFL. They want the high exposure 'kill' shot. What would stop this is a suspension for the length of the injury inflicted upon the opponent. Ridiculous! Sure. But so are deliberate attempts at mayhem in the name of 'Playing the Game.' That is absolute extreme bovine excrement!
     
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  36. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Nobody should ever tackle with their head down.
     
  37. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He had a perfect angle for a clean big hit at the shoulder with one purpose in mind, to remove the man from the ball..he failed in his attempt at a basic principle of tackling.old school or new school.
     
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  38. steveincolorado

    steveincolorado Spook, Storme & Pebbles

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    Obviously, your not very smart. I've read the entire thread for your info. All I'm saying is that the hit was legal and clean. Since you missed it before, I also said that I don't like those type of hits either.

    BTW, did anybody call Sean Smith a cheap shot when his forum was diving head and shoulders first into the ball carrier to take him down? Think not.
     
  39. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    that's how DBs that giving away 40 lbs tackle. At the legs. You don't try to go for the body. Try to tackle gronkowski when you weigh 200 lbs by the numbers. You'll be dragged 10 yards down field on his back. Dbs always go for the legs. Its a given
     
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  40. Coloradotrv

    Coloradotrv Well-Known Member

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    I do not think it was an intentional or dirty shot as much as it was a reckless one. Improper technique and improper judgement. He was making no attempt to wrap and drive through the tackle, only attempted to knock the TE over with his shoulder pads.

    To everyone talking about the heads up tackling form, that is a skill and technique that had been lost among high school and college coaches until recently. The NFL is sponsoring a licensing initiative to certify pee-wee/high school coaches to teach heads up tackling. The proper form tackle is no longer being taught until the NFL level, and by then it is largely too late.
     

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