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Kiper's 1st 2011 Big Board

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by Gunner, Aug 16, 2010.

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  1. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Jonathan Baldwin was not happy when asked about leaving for the draft apparently. He said he was going for sure and he said that the coaches tried to ruin his draft stock this year by asking him to run vertical routes most of the time. He complained that he didn't get any yards because of that...

    That's maybe why he half-assed some plays this year.
     
  2. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Jake Locker, Chistian Ponder, Greg McElroy, Ricky Stanzi, Colin Kaepernick, Andy Dalton, Pat Devlin (replacement invite), Cameron Jordan, Cameron Heyward, Adrian Clayborn, Ryan Kerrigan, Pernell McPhee, Jeremy Beal, Christian Ballard, Stephen Paea, Jarvis Jenkins, Drake Nevis, Phil Taylor, Casey Matthews, Prince Amukamara, Johnny Patrick, Curtis Brown, Marcus Gilchrist, Ahmad Black, DeAndre McDaniel, Quinton Carter, Brandon Hogan - Senior Bowl Invites.

    No mention of Jaiqwuan Jarrett, who I was high on last December.
     
  3. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Glad to see Devlin in there. The more they get a chance to see him the better IMO. If he's as some around here like him, he could be an option. I'm looking forward to seeing him play tonight.
     
  4. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    That does not make me want to draft him. Makes him sound like a complainer who makes excuses.
     
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  5. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    He's a replacement invite, which means he is only in if someone doesn't accept the invite. I assume the guy that doesn't accept the invite will be someone like Prince Amukamara. He has nothing to show.
     
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  6. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Devlin is certainly impressive. Needs more work but he's got the tools. I really like what I see. I will see if I can find a couple more games from him to watch. He has impressed me more than what I've seen from Ryan Mallett and Jake Locker but this is only one sample. I will watch more.
     
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  7. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah, this was the first I saw of him, but I liked what I saw. He was far from perfect out there, but it seemed like after a slow start his accuracy was very good and while he may not have Chad Henne's arm strength it looked like it was certainly strong enough to make all the NFL throws.
     
  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Devlin's arm strength is what I've been calling on the margin between adequate and good. What that means is that his arm is only adequate, naturally. However, he has good footwork and when he's allowed to step into his throws, he gets juice on his passes. It's a lot like a guy I had a high opinion of a year ago, Mike Kafka of Northwestern. Both players breathe well within the pocket. They slide, have natural footwork, and can find their passing lanes and angles. Devlin's footwork is a big plus, he will adapt well to a dropback offense. You can see it in his drops from the shotgun, the feet are lively and disciplined as if he's dropping back from Center, even though they don't technically have to be since it's a shotgun.

    Where they differ a little is in two areas. For one thing Devlin's accuracy looks to me to be on a different level. For another, Devlin's release is more over the top, which is kind of nifty because he has such a quick release generally speaking.

    Tonight I had Devlin being accurate on 32 of 39 throws. There was a 40th throw I don't count because it was a good throwaway decision. My tallies aren't based on completions, they're based on where the ball went, where it was supposed to go, and where the receiver was supposed to go. For instance I dinged him on several throws as "misses" just because they were poorly placed, even if caught. On the other hand, I credited him on several that were located correctly and the receiver either didn't run through his route the way he's supposed to or he just flubbed it. Some balls are not supposed to be necessarily right in a guy's chest. Some balls you're ok locating it closer to the ground to give the receiver a better chance of catching it without interference from the DB. Some balls you're ok locating it high.

    The 32 of 39 is actually pretty ideal, a little higher than normal but part of that is because his comfort zone was the 13 to 19 yard throw rather than having some more 20 to 30 yard throws. I like guys that when you strip everything away and account for it, hit their receivers 4 out of 5 times, or at least 3 out of 4. There are guys that are consistently 3 out of 5, and I don't like that as much. Mark Sanchez is one of those guys, IMO, and so is Tyler Thigpen. Anything below that and you're total scattershot. Henne is between a 3 out of 4 and a 4 out of 5 guy.

    I thought he did a lot of good things. Some more observations:

    1. He took a little off some of his short throws to help them get caught. There were only 1 or 2 that I thought he maybe could have taken a little more juice off, but in general he was very good with this.

    2. He didn't float or sail ANY of the deeper stick throws that he tried to make. He stepped into them when he could. When he couldn't step through, he had 26 and 30 yard attempts fall short and end up turfed a few yards short of where they should have gone.

    3. He managed the clock perfectly. Underrated quality, being aware of the clock. Never any issues with delay of game, and in the 4th quarter he regularly brought it down to 8 or 7 seconds at the beginning of the quarter protecting a 16-3 lead but still trying to drive down the field and maybe put down a nail in the coffin. When they failed to do so, and the next drives they got were full "run the clock out" mode, that clock hit 01 seconds nearly every time.

    4. He only tried two of the deeper touch throws. One was PERFECTLY placed at 33 yards as the crow flies, and so it ended up being a 24 yard TD throw on a corner route. The other floated too far but he was hit as he threw and the receiver was not as far along in his route as he should have been (claimed he was held, not sure he was).

    5. He regularly read the entire field, coming to his 3rd or 4th reads, and showed a lot of eye discipline in general. He mixed things up a lot. Sometimes he would make his first pair of reads and click off them, then throw to his next read right away. Sometimes he would also click off that second read onto something further to the side, then flip back and hit the second read he just clicked off, so as to throw the defense off a little bit. Sometimes he made his read and decision on a short ball before the snap, but when he did so he never betrayed it by looking in that direction before he snapped the ball. That second TD he threw was really a great progression and showed off his ability to use extra time to find an open guy and fit the ball in there. A lot of his shorter throws were not like you would expect in a normal spread attack, they were true checkdowns where he was onto his 3rd or 4th read.

    6. The shot selection was decidedly short, I only counted 9 of 39 throws that were 20+ yards as the crow flies. I only counted 3 that were 30+ yards and none that were 40+ yards through the air. But part of it was because of the safeties playing a lot deeper than I usually see especially in college. They were taking away the deep throws, leaving the underneath, and he was patient with it until he could make his deeper stabs later in the game. The shot selection bothers me at times, because consistently I think you see that the 15 to 20 yard throw is a lot more of a comfort zone to him than the 20 to 25 yard throw, but at the same time the GREAT passers in this league all make extremely good use of the area between the numbers and less than 10 yards up from the line of scrimmage. That's just a fact. Well timed and well located passes in this area hurt NFL defenses. Devlin has shown the ability to threaten the perimeter of the field.

    7. As I have mentioned before, the offense he's in is kind of a curious one in how conservative it's called at times, especially near the goal line. At one point the same thing happened that I'd seen in other Delaware games, they're in the red zone and they run the ball on 1st and 2nd down, get nothing from it, and have to get Devlin to make a throw on 3rd & Long from inside the red zone in order to keep the drive alive or score. In this game when that happened his receivers were well covered and he just had to throw the ball away. You would think that with a guy like him that reads the field as quickly and ALWAYS makes good decisions (2 interceptions on the year), you would trust him more to try and stick it in the end zone himself.

    8. I said before that one weakness was his handling of pressure in the pocket. He took a lot of sacks tonight. Some were pressure immediately, some were coverage sacks where nobody was open, but this is an area of concern for me. He didn't generally take sacks during the year but the games where the other team was able to generate consistent pressure on him, they scored a low amount of points and lost...or in this case for the first time they were able to win despite the pressure. He throws the ball away at times, he just needs to be more consistent about his decisions to do so.

    9. I had no idea the guy had broken his left wrist during the second game of the year. He's played all year long with a broken wrist on his non-throwing hand. The man has some guts.

    You're not going to know enough about this guy until you start ratcheting up the talent of the players around him, on both sides. You want better skill players, and you want better defensive players. You want to see if he continues to handle pressure a little poorly at times when the bodies flying at him are bigger and faster. Does it start to affect his throwing? I doubt the speed of the defensive backs will significantly affect him, just because his eyes and timing are big pluses, but will he attack those defensive players enough with deeper throws? The Senior Bowl will be good for him.
     
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  9. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    If I had to make a Senior Bowl prediction...I would say it's going to be a lot like Mike Kafka at the East-West practices and game. Kafka did not look strong in the early running in practice. None of the QBs really did, though obviously John Skelton was drawing all the raves for his size and arm strength. The more observant of us noted Kafka's strong footwork and progression as the week went on, but at the same time especially early in the week he looked almost scattershot with the accuracy, while he was still trying to develop a feel for everything. But as the week progressed, I think you could see Kafka getting better feel for the players around him and the reads in the offense, and he was looking better, then at the game itself I felt he rocked it. That got him drafted in the 4th round.

    And so with Devlin I think we could see the same thing. I doubt he'll ever look scattershot but I think his footwork will stand out to the more keen observers, but in the team drills he's just going to look off pretty early, and get stronger as the week goes on. Meanwhile I imagine someone like Christian Ponder could really impress people at the practices. Then, one way or another, the two will pull a switch during the game itself. Things during the game will just seem to not work out for Ponder, whereas Devlin could have a strong performance.
     
  10. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Devlin's arm strength will improve once his footwork gets really good. We've seen that happen with many quarterbacks, including Tom Brady.
     
  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    His arm strength could get better but I disagree that it's going to be footwork based. I think he's already using his feet to drive his arm strength to a degree that most college QBs are not. If he's going to get stronger it's going to be the good old fashioned way, by developing more in the gym.
     
  12. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    You would think having the kind of line Miami could have very soon (especially in pass protection with certain additions...perhaps even Mankins) that the problems with that will be mitigated somewhat. Still I think he's the second best all around QB, maybe not the second best QB if that makes any sense.
     
  13. Gunner

    Gunner Rock Hunter

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    The ONLY good thing to come out of yesterday's game ... we moved up two spots in the draft

    1) Carolina Panthers (2-12) — .538 Opponent’s Win%
    2) Denver Broncos (3-11) — .526 Opponent’s Win %
    3) Cincinnati Bengals (3-11) — .577 Opponent’s Win %
    4) Arizona Cardinals (4-10) — .477 Opponent’s Win %
    5) Buffalo Bills (4-10) – .552 Opponent’s Win %
    6) Detroit Lions (4-10) – .560 Opponent’s Win %
    7) San Francisco 49ers (5-9) — .505 Opponent’s Win %
    8) Dallas Cowboys (5-9) — .521 Opponent’s Win %
    9) Washington Redskins (5-9) — .505 Opponent’s Win %
    10) Minnesota Vikings (5-8) — .525 Opponent’s Win %
    11) Cleveland Browns (5-9) — .551 Opponent’s Win %
    12) Houston Texans (5-9) — .556 Opponent’s Win %
    13) Seattle Seahawks (6-8) — .429 Opponent’s Win %
    14) Tennessee Titans (6-8) – .500 Opponent’s Win %
    15) Oakland Raiders (7-7) – .449 Opponent’s Win %
    16) Miami Dolphins (7-7) – .531 Opponent’s Win %
     
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  14. Gunner

    Gunner Rock Hunter

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    Kiper has a Pick 1-13 Draft Scenario out - figured it would give us a good discussion topic for who might be on the board at 16ish

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/columns/story?columnist=kiper_jr_mel&id=5929313

    1. Carolina Panthers
    Top needs: DT, WR, QB
    Pick strategy: Carolina is in a really peculiar spot. Right now they really need a dominating interior presence on the D-line, and Auburn's Nick Fairley is an option, but he'd be a bit of a reach. The Panthers also need help at wide receiver, but they're young there with guys like David Gettis and Brandon LaFell (Steve Smith could be elsewhere next year), and they wouldn't likely take A.J. Green at No. 1. Bottom line: It comes down to Andrew Luck. Don't take it as an indictment on Jimmy Clausen, who has struggled as you'd assume a rookie would in this setting, but they could really like their QB and still take Luck. If he's there, he's the guy. If he's not, it's a possible trade down, or perhaps Fairley has worked his way into this range.

    2. Cincinnati Bengals
    Top needs: Pass-rushing DE, RB, QB
    Pick strategy: I note QB among needs because Carson Palmer seems as unsettled as he's ever been in Cincy, but the Bengals need a pass-rusher, and Clemson's Da'Quan Bowers is a perfect fit. My current No. 2 player on the Board, the guy projects as an immediate starter at the NFL level and one who will cause negative plays from Week 1.
    Tied: Pick Nos. 3-5

    3. Buffalo Bills
    Top needs: LT, QB, OLB, WR
    Pick strategy: Oh, to have last year's first-round pick back. I like C.J. Spiller and still think he can have a great career, but given where Buffalo was he felt like a luxury pick in the Top 10, and he still does. The Bills needed a left tackle and still do. The problem: There isn't one with a grade worthy of taking here. Nate Solder is my highest-rated O-lineman (currently No. 17), and it's hard to imagine a re-evaluation of the tape and workouts will get one of the current O-lineman into the Top 10. If the Bengals stay here, Green could be a star, and maybe they take a breathtaking talent such as Patrick Peterson. Perhaps they fall in love with a guy such as Ryan Mallett or even Cam Newton, but those guys are not guarantees for a pick this high. The Bills might be best-suited to trade down and get their tackle later. They could go a lot of directions at this spot.

    4. Detroit Lions
    Top needs: CB, OL, DE, LB
    Pick strategy: I shouldn't even list more than one need, because the way the draft sets up it'd be hard for Detroit to miss if it picks this high. Either Peterson is here or the Lions get the other premier cover corner, Prince Amukamara. Detroit has to address corner, and if it does, this team that's been really close all year (minus its QB) will get better in a hurry.

    5. Denver Broncos
    Top needs: 3-4 DE, CB
    Pick strategy: Champ Bailey will be a free agent, which could make Denver think, if he's not a guarantee to be back in the fold and Amukamara or Peterson are still around, but the Broncos have simply got to get better up front, and Robert Quinn (he's gifted and will be fresh after sitting out this year) and Marcell Dareus could be solid picks here. Dareus is over 300 pounds but could be a pocket-collapsing DE in the current scheme. People might clamor for a QB, but they have too much invested at that position right now.
    Tied: Pick Nos. 6-7

    6. Dallas Cowboys
    Top needs: OL, CB, LB
    Pick strategy: Like Buffalo, this is a team that could have used more help on the O-line last year. I don't think the Cowboys regret the Dez Bryant pick, but now Dallas is in a peculiar spot, much like Buffalo, in which it may not get the best value with its pick if it goes with a tackle. If one of the CBs isn't here, this is a good place to trade down and address the O-line later in the first round.

    7. Arizona Cardinals
    Top needs: QB, LT, OLB
    Pick strategy: This is a spot in which (at this early stage) I could see Newton coming off the board. Here's a franchise that could really use a long-term transformative QB, and Newton or Mallett could get that look. If the Cardinals intend to stick with the current situation, this may be a spot Von Miller or even UCLA's Akeem Ayers comes off the board. Both should be solid OLBs, and Arizona needs one. Both would be a slight reach but fit here.

    8. San Francisco 49ers Top needs: QB, DE
    Pick strategy: I'll repeat what I said about Arizona: It needs a resolution at QB. If the Cards don't intend to get one in the market, Mallett or Newton could fit in San Francisco, and this is also the outer range of where I could see a team falling in love with Locker's potential -- though San Fran has been dealing with a gifted athlete who can't be accurate for years in Alex Smith, so I think that should scare it off. If the Niners don't go QB, Quinn or even Ryan Kerrigan or Adrian Clayborn could get a look.
    Tie: Pick Nos. 9-13

    9. Tennessee Titans
    Top needs: QB, DT
    Pick strategy: I have to think that if Jeff Fisher is back in Tennessee, Vince Young isn't the likeliest starting QB in 2011. Fair? Given that, would Fisher go down that road again? A physically-gifted QB, noted for his running skills? I'm talking about Newton and Locker. Unless Mallett is here, the Titans may go for a big need at defensive tackle and hope that Fairley falls. If he doesn't, Dareus or LSU's Drake Nevis would fit.

    10. Cleveland Browns
    Top needs: WR, 3-4 DE
    Pick strategy: If Green is somehow on the board at this stage -- and he could be, if you know drafts and how things can shake out, particularly if his 40 time isn't remarkable -- the Browns should have their pick in before the Commish is done taking photos with the previous pick. If he's not, this is a Bama's Julio Jones or Oklahoma State's Justin Blackmon could come into the picture. If they don't like either, they should go D-line.

    11 Washington Redskins
    Top needs: WR, OL, QB, RB
    Pick strategy: It could be really interesting if one of the top three QBs is still sitting there when the Skins pick, no? I still think they go wide receiver (Blackmon is an option) or trade down, as their needs are many and depth is light, and they aren't picking in the 3rd or 4th rounds. While Newton and Mallett are graded out to go in this area, word had it that Shanahan was enamored with Locker last year (when the Redskins had the 4th pick). This year, if he still likes Locker, they could trade down, add a pick and still get him. He once made a similar move to get Mr. Cutler.

    12. Houston Texans
    Top needs: DL, S
    Pick strategy: People keep pointing to the secondary; I keep looking at where a good secondary is often made, and that's the pass rush. If you subtract Mario Williams (8 sacks), this is a bad unit that can't breathe on a QB without the help of a blitz. Like the Giants this year, if the Texans get better up front next year, their young secondary (remember, they drafted a CB in Round 1 last year) will improve. Nobody outside Williams has more than three sacks. Kerrigan, Nevis, Clayborn -- they take the best pass-rusher they can find that fits the scheme.

    13. Minnesota Vikings
    Top needs: S, QB, DB
    Pick strategy: I'm sounding like a broken record at this stage, but like Tennessee, San Fran, Arizona and others, if the Vikings are in love with a QB at this spot, they could make that move. If not, based on current ratings, it's a great place to trade down to later in the first and get a safety. Rahim Moore of UCLA is the top-rated one now. That position has been dreadful for the Vikes, so whoever they pick is a guy they should assume fits their scheme and is ready to start.

    The next team in line? Based on current records and via their deal with Oakland, it would be the 11-2 New England Patriots.
     
  15. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The good news is that SF, Dallas, Houston and Tennesee might win another game or two. If we finish 7-9 we could fall in that 12-14 range again, which wouldn't be a bad slot. You'd be in a position to do business on one of the QB's or be in agood trade down spot.
     
  16. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Another good outcome was the Bills moved down two spots and allowed two teams potentially in need of a QB to jump them. That could keep Newton away from them and will make it tougher to move up for Luck.
     
  17. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    I think the Bills like Fitzpatrick at QB. He is a quality starter for them. I think they go another direction.
     
  18. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Fitzpatrick took an awful lot of chances with the ball yesterday. Sean Smith drops yet another interception, and what should have been a Karlos Dansby interception in the end zone turns into a David Nelson touchdown...his day in Miami goes from "bad" to "good". I'm not denying what you say. He's got tools and brains and they may just up and say hey we've found our guy...but I'm not sure they should.
     
  19. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Not sure what "real" impact this will have , but Ralph Wilson did state earlier this season that the number one priority was to draft a franchise QB.

    They could still be drafting a QB in round one despite what Fitzpatrick has done the last half of the season.
     
  20. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Fitzpatrick is a solid QB. They can definitely win with him IMO. But I don't see him as the ultimate answer. Andrew Luck is an absolute stud and if they were sitting at 3 they would be crazy not to at least look into moving up for him. And if Newton is sitting there, they would have to strongly consider taking him, especially in Gailey's offense. Either way, I'd rather have them picking at 5 instead of 3.
     
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  21. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    If I were Carolina, I'd make Buffalo give me next year's first and this year's 3rd just to move up 3 spots for Luck...... and Fitz too.
     
  22. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Gives you an idea how expensive it would be for Miami to get him. Probably three straight firsts. (AND I'D DO IT)
     
  23. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I honestly don't think I would take that deal if I were Carolina. Andrew Luck is a once in a decade type prospect at QB and who knows how many wins the Bills could have next year. If I were in position to grab Luck it would take a massive overpayment to get that pick from me.
     
  24. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I completely agree. Why trade multiple 1st round picks and players to get Luck when you can be Carolina and get him with only 1!

    I wouldn't take the deal if I were Carolina unless at least 3 first rounders were involved......this year's 2nd...... and maybe a player. And if it's Buffalo, I'd tack on an extra 4th just b/c I don't like you.
     
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  25. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I'd trade Henne, Odrick, next year's 2nd and the year after's 1st to Carolina for Luck.
     
  26. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    That's true I hadn't thought of Odrick, if you retain McDaniel perhaps he is expendable. I'm not sure how high his value would be but I think Carolina would be interested and I wouldn't care if we retained the 25 year old McDaniel over him rather than letting McDaniel hit the market for nothing.

    1
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    Odrick

    Would that do the job or would they prefer 3 straight 1sts so that they can brag about that a bit. Either way I don't care. I'd still do it. Ireland's a capable ****er when it comes to finding talent elsewhere. Besides your top positions would be filled. If QB were filled and the team held together you'd be picking maybe a RT or a TE next year. No first for that? So be it. Those aren't positions you go overboard for. Getting a guy that's pretty much considered the most well rounded QB prospect in years? I mean you have to do it. The team would be Logan Mankins and a RB away from excellence in a couple years.

    I'm really liking the Orton option lately. We trade a third or fourth, trade down in the first and we have that solid Pennington like quarterback who can make all the throws well enough to win and we build a very effective team around him with a good offensive coordinator. It's the kind of team that can be efficient and deadly.
     
  27. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    At this point they'd have no interest in Henne because they have Jimmy Clausen. And yes I realize what that means for Henne's stock in this league. But nobody's going to judge Clausen based on a true rookie performance on a bad team, and he's a 2nd round pick like Henne was.

    You're on the right track with next year's 2nd rounder but I think realistically we're not going to get value for either Chad Henne or Jared Odrick. Other teams do not tend to recognize the value of players that are beset with challenges. It's too easy to be recognized as one of the many, many, many many many many many many players that can't cut it in this league. It's a lot easier to be one of those guys than to be one of the few that can cut it.

    Panthers have a promising DE by the name of Greg Hardy. They could use a DT. Why not franchise Tony McDaniel and then try and include him in the trade? McDaniel is not in position to ask for BIG TIME money, that only makes him even more valuable, just like when we actually got a 2nd rounder for Wes Welker at a time when nobody would have thought we could get that much. Joke was on us, in the end, but part of the reason we got a much higher pick than you'd expect was because the Patriots knew they could negotiate him to a very reasonable deal at like $3 million a year or whatever it ended up being. Getting that much bang for your buck makes you willing to give higher draft pick compensation.

    IF we were to really go ahead and try and do this, take a guy that just proved himself pretty big time in Tony McDaniel, franchise him, and then sell him off while they negotiate a deal with him. The other option which you actually would have to consider if you could get McDaniel back in the fold, would be to negotiate a deal with McDaniel and then trade Randy Starks to the Panthers. Randy is still under contract for a few years if I remember correctly. That could make him more attractive.

    Miami suddenly has a glut of corner talent. Aside from Chris Gamble, I don't know how happy the Panthers are with Richard Marshall and Captain Munnerlyn. Perhaps they could use a Will Allen as a veteran presence to help nail down that unit?

    So here's what I would offer them. They could have either Tony McDaniel or Randy Starks, and Will Allen, our 2nd rounder in 2011, our 4th rounder in 2010, in order to move up to #16 to #1 where we would take Andrew Luck. And I fully expect them to turn even that much down.
     
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  28. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Even with a package of McDaniel/Starks, Will Allen, our 1st and 4th this year (which I think you mean would be 2011) and 2nd next year (which I think you mean 2012) it would still take at least another #1 IMO. And I would do that in a heartbeat and honestly that still might not be enough. I would be willing to trade this entire draft and a future pick or a large chunk of both drafts in order to get Luck. Because while no prospect is a sure thing, that guy is worth mortaging entire drafts for.
     
  29. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I'd have to say Kipers is as well.

    Locker ahead of Luck? Really? WTF has he been watching?

    Mallett in the top 40? REALLY????? That kid throws a football like...well.... .a Mallet. His ball has the subtleness of catching a Dogamn Hammer.
    He makes very very poor decisions and is just waiting to have his block knocked clean off ala Rock-m-sock-m robots at the next level.
     
    ToddsPhins likes this.
  30. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    the next dimension
    If they can somehow trade for Luck and not have to give up next year's 1st(I'd still do it) that would be amazing. But imagine if they somehow trade up and get Luck and there is no football next year. The anticipation would kill.
     
  31. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Don't shoot this messenger ....

    Chris Mortenson was ESPN radio this morning a couple of times. He was talking about the McNabb situation in Washington and stated he knew , not thought , knew Washington would have taken Locker with the number 4 overall selection last year.

    He said Locker would have competition from this years QB's , Luck , Newton , Mallet etc but felt Locker was still a first round draft choice and would be go in the first round this draft.
     
  32. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Starks is still very young for his NFL experience. Heis turning or just turned 27 iirc. So certainly a viable option to explore. My opinion on MCD are known , NO WAY I let him leave with no compnsation...
     
  33. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Unfortunately, Chris Mortenson is full of ****.
     
  34. DOLBET

    DOLBET Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    With new CBA and rookie salary cap, first pick may become more valuable than before. Teams will have to throw out their draft pick points and charts and make new ones. For couple years or so, teams will over value the picks while they edit the draft values. If we want to trade up to first pick, it is more likely we have to offer something like what Vikings offer for Herschel Walker.

    Forget that! We will not sacrifice our future for a player that may busts. (Not 100% sure thing)
     
  35. DOLBET

    DOLBET Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Vikings offered :

    3 first round picks
    3 second round picks
    1 third round pick
    1 6th round pick
    5 players

    :D
     
  36. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    I don't think a team would take 5 players this day. They would have to pay those players and all the draft picks. That's alot of moey.
     
  37. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Considering Sam Bradford got $50 million guaranteed, I'd imagine drafting Luck will also cost a ton of money.
     
  38. DOLBET

    DOLBET Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    "Considering Sam Bradford got $50 million guaranteed, I'd imagine drafting Luck will also cost a ton of money."

    "They would have to pay those players and all the draft picks"

    You forgot that we will (hopefully) have new CBA. The owners want rookie pay scale and they will fight for it. The veteran players want it too so there is more money going to veterans rather than tying up to unproven rookies. First pick will not cost team 50 million guarantee anymore.

    If CBA passed before the draft then first pick's value will soar because the teams will know how much that pick will cost due to rookie pay scale formulas.... It make first pick a "cheaper" mistake if the pick busts.

    If CBA talks are still going on during the draft then we will not know how the teams will values the picks.
     
  39. gilv13

    gilv13 Well-Known Member

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    With today's news, do you think Terrelle Pryor declares for the draft, and if he does, where do you think roughly he might go, and would teams look to keep him at QB, make him a slash player, or move him to another position full time?
     
  40. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Sorry , what happened today with regards to Pryor?
     

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