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Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by pumpdogs, Jan 10, 2019.
It's not an official declaration, so bear that in mind. He can still choose to pursue baseball if he wants. If he does declare, then he would go within the top 5 picks. The Phins have no shot unless they want to give up an entire draft board to move up or trade Xavien Howard.
I have a feeling Howard will get traded regardless.
This has disaster written all over it.
Not only could I see us drafting him, but I could see it blowing up in our faces.
If available to us, we should absolutely do it.
What intrigues me is the link between new Cardinals HC Kingsbury and Murray. Could something brew that shakes Josh Rosen loose?
Either way, it adds some much needed depth to the QB position - either as a guy for us to consider or for someone else to take and push other guys down.
What if they offer Rosen? Obviously, the Cards would have him ranked below Murray to trade him, but what about the other guys?
Even though I personally think he's worth the #1 pick, I doubt he goes top 5. Too many teams in the top 5 need defensive help and there are some great defensive prospects. GM's are old school in that they will concentrate on his height.
At least I hope because Miami should do everything they can to get this kid.
First and foremost, Murray is not just small; he is tiny. Baker Mayfield (critiqued for his size) just posted a picture the other day of himself and Kyler Murray standing next to each other. My jaw dropped when I saw just how little he was. This really has the makings of a better version of Pat White. Now, I know and agree that Murray is significantly more accurate than White, but I ask you to rewatch the Steelers' game where he got lit up. I fundamentally wonder if his body could handle the hits of some of these freakier DEs/LBs that will inevitably happen with QBs.
Secondly and most importantly, the dude has options. This is great for him but horrible for us.
Imagine if he gets brought in and his first year the coach does not think he is ready to start, but he does. He could easily give the team the ultimatum to start him or he'll play baseball. On the flip side, if we drafted Haskins or Lock or Grier, and the coach said that he is not ready, they really can't do anything about it.
What if he has a Josh Rosen type year, and says football is too hard and goes back to baseball? It's possible.
What if he comes in and after a while says that our roster/line/WRs aren't good, and decides that they are making him look bad? Maybe he goes back to baseball.
What if he doesn't like/agree with/get along with our new coach? Maybe he opts to play baseball.
I mean, realistically, he could enter the draft and say, if I don't get draft by pick X, I am going to play baseball. He could flat out tell teams that he won't play for them, and if they draft him, he will not report to camp.
When drafting a QB it needs to be like a marriage. I think that drafting Murray is more like dating.
There is not ONE thing similar between White and Murray other than their race...lol.
The reason White was crushed was because he was crushed. If Mayfield took that shot he would have been crushed.
Give Murray another 2" and he's the consensus #1 pick in this draft. Are you willing to give up that level of talent over 2"? I'm not.
And 2" will NOT protect a QB from vicious hits. Hits that are less and less common in today's NFL mind you.
Murray is a rare talent. If the Dolphins pass him up it will be a bigger mistake than when they passed over Brees for Culpepper.
If you compare Murray to Pat White you’ve never seen Murray play or his body. Does Murray need to continue to put on weight? Sure. He’s a f’n sophomore though. Murray has a very solid base. As a baseball guy I’ve broken down his baseball film quite a bit. He’s built very solid. Russell Wilson was 5’10 5/8 and 204. He’s probably going to come in SLIGHTLY SLIGHTLY smaller.
If Murray gives the ultimatum, if I don’t get picked top 10 I’m going to play baseball, then you simply don’t take him at 13. It’s not hard. There will be perimeters and that’s fine.
Murray is the truth.
Also, if he chooses football, the only reason he would go back to baseball is if he can't play QB in this league. And if that's the case, so what? let him go back to baseball.
I just highly doubt he would fail in the NFL.
Exactly! I was enamored with Wilson coming out. I said if he was 6’1 he’d be the #1 pick. I said I’d take him in the 3rd. As did the NFL teams. I screwed up. So did the nfl. It won’t happen again with talents like Wilson or Murray. These aren’t small running QBs. They are small elite throwers that are elite athletes also. Big difference!
I'm so damn excited that there is a good chance he enters the draft.
This kid is special. He's a combination of Brees and Wilson.....He's fantastic.
Yep! Smart, athletic, fantastic arm.....A playmaker!!
One good quarterback under 5’11”.
And you think you’ve found the second?
Well if we get him. I hope you guys are right?
This type of thinking is why there aren't more short QB's in the NFL. I mean, it's not like at OK, or any of the teams they played, have 150lb lineman or DB's who are slow and lumbering. P5 QB's are playing against NFL quality opponents each week.
Murray is a once in a generational talent.
One of the problems is that not many get chances.
Fans after Doug Williams wins a superbowl....."One good black QB and you think youve found a second?"
These two scenarios are not all that different. The perception of "ideal" gets proven wrong every day, in every aspect of life, including the NFL.
Ya there are short qbs being held back?
Seemed like manziel got a shot? And he sucked. I will have to agree to disagree.
These are different. One is based on hate and ignorance. The other is based on performance. In today’s day and age. I want to believe if you are good. You will play. No tinfoil hat chit. They are out to get the short people? Come on?
Manziel got a shot?
So then show us the short QBs that have had poor performance?
Manziel admitted he played play ground ball and didn't study film. He also was an insane party animal. His stature literally had 0 to do with his lack of success in the NFL. Next? Who else you got?
I'm not sold. If you can get him in the second round or trade back in the first, then okay.
If they can get him in the first without moving up then I'll understand but won't agree.
They should NOT move up to get him.
No one is a sure thing. Murray is the closest to a sure thing that I have ever seen. Now, I'm not some tape hound who studies players day and night, but I watch film and follow certain players that intrigue me. I have never been as impressed by any player I've ever watched like I have been with Murray. That probably means little in the real world, but i think this kid is extremely special.
I've said it before, but Murray is a combination of Drew Brees and Russell Wilson.
And here's the Walter Football entry:
Miami Dolphins: Kyler Murray, QB/WR, Oklahoma
NFL teams all soured on Russell Wilson leading up to the 2012 NFL Draft despite the fact that Wilson had more experience and was more accomplished than Kyler Murray over a longer span. While Wilson didn't win the Heisman, he probably would have if he played in the Big XII. Instead, Wilson thrived in two conferences where teams actually play some sort of defense. Despite this, Wilson fell to the third round. Now, just because Wilson has been an exception rather than the rule, Murray is somehow expected to be chosen in the opening round even though he's two inches shorter and 20 pounds lighter than Wilson!
None of this makes any sense, especially when factoring in Murray's lack of starting experience, his extremely easy schedule this past season against all of the woeful Big XII defenses, his struggles against Alabama prior to garbage time, and the fact that teams may not be convinced that he's going to dedicate himself to football with baseball being a possibility. All of these things are strikes against Murray, which was relayed to me by an NFC personnel man I spoke to on Friday afternoon. I asked him about Murray, and while he expressed concern about his size, it was his dedication to football that was the major concern.
"Murray should probably go on Day 2, but will probably go in the first round because he's a hot name," the personnel man said. "We assumed he was going into baseball because of Scott Boras, so no one wrote up any reports on him."
Adam Schefter reported that general managers told him that Murray will be a first-round pick. This obviously came from general managers who didn't want Murray; otherwise, they wouldn't have said anything. Quite often, NFL teams don't know what others are going to do. I spoke to an assistant general manager days before the 2017 NFL Draft and asked him what he thought the 49ers would do at No. 2 overall. He said he thought they would take Patrick Mahomes. Last year, Charlie Campbell spoke to a general manager who thought the Giants would go with Sam Darnold with the second pick. Both of these people we spoke to are great talent evaluators, but they simply didn't know what other teams would do. Thus, the general managers Schefter spoke to were just guessing, like the NFC personnel man I spoke to. The possibility of Murray declaring has shocked the league, to say the least.
That said, the general managers Schefter spoke to were doing something else as well. They were building hype for Murray. We've already established that those general managers don't want Murray, so they're trying to raise his value so that some team in front of them takes Murray, causing a better player to fall to them. I coined the phrase, "bad teams make dumb picks" a long time ago, and this is a case where the good teams are trying to bait a bad team to make yet another dumb pick.
I then thought about it. Who could take Murray in the first round? Well, there's no dumber owner of a bad team in the NFL than Stephen Ross. I'm sure he's smart in real life, but when it comes to managing his football team, Ross has made countless blunders. Ross also loves hype. He constantly invites celebrities no one cares about to games to try to draw a crowd. This would be another instance of Ross trying to draw attention to the Dolphins. He may demand for his next regime to draft Murray because he thinks a 5-foot-9, 190-pound quarterback, who thrived in a conference where zero defense is played, won't get half of his passes batted at the line of scrimmage somehow.
Pick change; previously Drew Lock, QB "
I stopped taking this seriously after: "his struggles against Alabama prior to garbage time"...
That's just a flat out lie. The first quarter he was definitely shell shocked. After that, he tore up that defense pretty much all by himself.
The author is either a liar with an agenda or clueless. I would suspect with how this was written it's a little bit of both.
Walter is more entertainment and aggregator than serious analysis. He's usually fairly amusing but has a bone up his but about Ross for some reason, as if he worse than the ownership of, say, the Redskins, Browns or Cardinals lol.
A number of mock drafts have now had Murray available at 13 and picked by the Dolphins.
I don't see it. He'll go sooner.
Two questions for you:
1. If he is there, do we take him?
2. If he isn't, how far up do we go to get him?
It reminds me a lot like that scene in Money Ball where scouts looked at player by how they looked instead of how they did.
Also reminds me how we traded up for Dion Jordan instead of trading up for the two inches too short Aaron Donald.
Play on the field arguments is what interest me. His size arguments do not. It is not like a lot of short quarterbacks failed in the NFL so this rule exists. It is they don't have the chance because everyone says they are going to fail. A perpetual belief that plays out in only a few short quarterbacks even getting a chance.
Unlike super tall quarterbacks that scouts drool over who tend to get over drafted that generally fail.
IMO, you go as high as you can to get a prospect like Murray. He's worth the 1st pick. However, I just can't shake the feeling that the old school GM way of thinking will push him further down than we all think.
Sit pat at pick number 13. Pick the best qb available. Kyler. Haskins. Jones. Or lock. If they are all gone? Start filling holes. But we have absolutely no qb deprh on our team. The ones we have should all be let go. Nothing here but garbage. Cant afford to trade up this year. Might be forced to next year tho?
Kyler sure is electric. But i havnt seen that kind of qb be consistant in the nfl?
Wilson would not be the wilson we know today if drafted by miami? Seattle had a special team. We don’t. Yet. Imo
Seattles offensive line is trash. And their weapons have been average at best. They are far from special on the offensive side of the ball. Wilson makes that offense special.
where is the special offense now? Oh ya. The sorry cowboys smoked them.
Wilson is over rated. Argue all you want.
I say he is over rated. You say he is a football god. Agree to disagree. But at this point. If kyler was the only one of the 4 decent qbs to be drafted left at the 13th spot. Then take him. And i think kyler might have a lot more razzle dazzle than wilson. Seems alot quicker?
In 2018 Seattle was tied for 6th in the NFL in PPG offensively. 11th in 2017. Both years with average at best weapons and a bad offensive line. Id say thats pretty damn good.
I think Murray is definitely more talented version. But Wilson had 4 years as a college starter, so he was more ready coming out. We will see what happens.
Don't think he'll be the pick, as exciting as that would be.
"Russell Wilson is overrated" is one of the lamest and most ridiculous NFL takes I've been seeing over the past 2-3 years. Dude is a ****ing stud and we would have been blessed to have him on our team.