Kyler Murray Thread

"Galant wrote:

I'm not sold. If you can get him in the second round or trade back in the first, then okay.
If they can get him in the first without moving up then I'll understand but won't agree.
They should NOT move up to get him.

No one is a sure thing. Murray is the closest to a sure thing that I have ever seen. Now, I'm not some tape hound who studies players day and night, but I watch film and follow certain players that intrigue me. I have never been as impressed by any player I've ever watched like I have been with Murray. That probably means little in the real world, but i think this kid is extremely special.

I've said it before, but Murray is a combination of Drew Brees and Russell Wilson.

Ouch...

And here's the Walter Football entry:

"
Miami Dolphins: Kyler Murray, QB/WR, Oklahoma
NFL teams all soured on Russell Wilson leading up to the 2012 NFL Draft despite the fact that Wilson had more experience and was more accomplished than Kyler Murray over a longer span. While Wilson didn't win the Heisman, he probably would have if he played in the Big XII. Instead, Wilson thrived in two conferences where teams actually play some sort of defense. Despite this, Wilson fell to the third round. Now, just because Wilson has been an exception rather than the rule, Murray is somehow expected to be chosen in the opening round even though he's two inches shorter and 20 pounds lighter than Wilson!

None of this makes any sense, especially when factoring in Murray's lack of starting experience, his extremely easy schedule this past season against all of the woeful Big XII defenses, his struggles against Alabama prior to garbage time, and the fact that teams may not be convinced that he's going to dedicate himself to football with baseball being a possibility. All of these things are strikes against Murray, which was relayed to me by an NFC personnel man I spoke to on Friday afternoon. I asked him about Murray, and while he expressed concern about his size, it was his dedication to football that was the major concern.

"Murray should probably go on Day 2, but will probably go in the first round because he's a hot name," the personnel man said. "We assumed he was going into baseball because of Scott Boras, so no one wrote up any reports on him."

Adam Schefter reported that general managers told him that Murray will be a first-round pick. This obviously came from general managers who didn't want Murray; otherwise, they wouldn't have said anything. Quite often, NFL teams don't know what others are going to do. I spoke to an assistant general manager days before the 2017 NFL Draft and asked him what he thought the 49ers would do at No. 2 overall. He said he thought they would take Patrick Mahomes. Last year, Charlie Campbell spoke to a general manager who thought the Giants would go with Sam Darnold with the second pick. Both of these people we spoke to are great talent evaluators, but they simply didn't know what other teams would do. Thus, the general managers Schefter spoke to were just guessing, like the NFC personnel man I spoke to. The possibility of Murray declaring has shocked the league, to say the least.

That said, the general managers Schefter spoke to were doing something else as well. They were building hype for Murray. We've already established that those general managers don't want Murray, so they're trying to raise his value so that some team in front of them takes Murray, causing a better player to fall to them. I coined the phrase, "bad teams make dumb picks" a long time ago, and this is a case where the good teams are trying to bait a bad team to make yet another dumb pick.

I then thought about it. Who could take Murray in the first round? Well, there's no dumber owner of a bad team in the NFL than Stephen Ross. I'm sure he's smart in real life, but when it comes to managing his football team, Ross has made countless blunders. Ross also loves hype. He constantly invites celebrities no one cares about to games to try to draw a crowd. This would be another instance of Ross trying to draw attention to the Dolphins. He may demand for his next regime to draft Murray because he thinks a 5-foot-9, 190-pound quarterback, who thrived in a conference where zero defense is played, won't get half of his passes batted at the line of scrimmage somehow.

Pick change; previously Drew Lock, QB "

http://walterfootball.com/draft2019.php

"Galant wrote:

Ouch...

https://x.com/i/web/status/1085562250654556162

And here's the Walter Football entry:

"
Miami Dolphins: Kyler Murray, QB/WR, Oklahoma
NFL teams all soured on Russell Wilson leading up to the 2012 NFL Draft despite the fact that Wilson had more experience and was more accomplished than Kyler Murray over a longer span. While Wilson didn't win the Heisman, he probably would have if he played in the Big XII. Instead, Wilson thrived in two conferences where teams actually play some sort of defense. Despite this, Wilson fell to the third round. Now, just because Wilson has been an exception rather than the rule, Murray is somehow expected to be chosen in the opening round even though he's two inches shorter and 20 pounds lighter than Wilson!

None of this makes any sense, especially when factoring in Murray's lack of starting experience, his extremely easy schedule this past season against all of the woeful Big XII defenses, his struggles against Alabama prior to garbage time, and the fact that teams may not be convinced that he's going to dedicate himself to football with baseball being a possibility. All of these things are strikes against Murray, which was relayed to me by an NFC personnel man I spoke to on Friday afternoon. I asked him about Murray, and while he expressed concern about his size, it was his dedication to football that was the major concern.

"Murray should probably go on Day 2, but will probably go in the first round because he's a hot name," the personnel man said. "We assumed he was going into baseball because of Scott Boras, so no one wrote up any reports on him."

Adam Schefter reported that general managers told him that Murray will be a first-round pick. This obviously came from general managers who didn't want Murray; otherwise, they wouldn't have said anything. Quite often, NFL teams don't know what others are going to do. I spoke to an assistant general manager days before the 2017 NFL Draft and asked him what he thought the 49ers would do at No. 2 overall. He said he thought they would take Patrick Mahomes. Last year, Charlie Campbell spoke to a general manager who thought the Giants would go with Sam Darnold with the second pick. Both of these people we spoke to are great talent evaluators, but they simply didn't know what other teams would do. Thus, the general managers Schefter spoke to were just guessing, like the NFC personnel man I spoke to. The possibility of Murray declaring has shocked the league, to say the least.

That said, the general managers Schefter spoke to were doing something else as well. They were building hype for Murray. We've already established that those general managers don't want Murray, so they're trying to raise his value so that some team in front of them takes Murray, causing a better player to fall to them. I coined the phrase, "bad teams make dumb picks" a long time ago, and this is a case where the good teams are trying to bait a bad team to make yet another dumb pick.

I then thought about it. Who could take Murray in the first round? Well, there's no dumber owner of a bad team in the NFL than Stephen Ross. I'm sure he's smart in real life, but when it comes to managing his football team, Ross has made countless blunders. Ross also loves hype. He constantly invites celebrities no one cares about to games to try to draw a crowd. This would be another instance of Ross trying to draw attention to the Dolphins. He may demand for his next regime to draft Murray because he thinks a 5-foot-9, 190-pound quarterback, who thrived in a conference where zero defense is played, won't get half of his passes batted at the line of scrimmage somehow.

Pick change; previously Drew Lock, QB "

http://walterfootball.com/draft2019.php

I stopped taking this seriously after: "his struggles against Alabama prior to garbage time"...

That's just a flat out lie. The first quarter he was definitely shell shocked. After that, he tore up that defense pretty much all by himself.

The author is either a liar with an agenda or clueless. I would suspect with how this was written it's a little bit of both.

Walter is more entertainment and aggregator than serious analysis. He's usually fairly amusing but has a bone up his but about Ross for some reason, as if he worse than the ownership of, say, the Redskins, Browns or Cardinals lol.

A number of mock drafts have now had Murray available at 13 and picked by the Dolphins.

I don't see it. He'll go sooner.

Two questions for you:

1. If he is there, do we take him?

2. If he isn't, how far up do we go to get him?

"Galant wrote:

A number of mock drafts have now had Murray available at 13 and picked by the Dolphins.

I don't see it. He'll go sooner.

Two questions for you:

1. If he is there, do we take him?

2. If he isn't, how far up do we go to get him?

Seriously. If Kyler Murray is there at 13, take him. Maybe he’s too small and doesn’t pan out, but he’s worth the risk for the Dolphins. 2 years to evaluate him before Lawrence is draft eligible! https://t.co/x29pIZQxaV

— Andrew Abramson (@AbramsonFL) January 18, 2019

It reminds me a lot like that scene in Money Ball where scouts looked at player by how they looked instead of how they did.

Also reminds me how we traded up for Dion Jordan instead of trading up for the two inches too short Aaron Donald.

Play on the field arguments is what interest me. His size arguments do not. It is not like a lot of short quarterbacks failed in the NFL so this rule exists. It is they don't have the chance because everyone says they are going to fail. A perpetual belief that plays out in only a few short quarterbacks even getting a chance.
Unlike super tall quarterbacks that scouts drool over who tend to get over drafted that generally fail.

"Galant wrote:

A number of mock drafts have now had Murray available at 13 and picked by the Dolphins.

I don't see it. He'll go sooner.

Two questions for you:

1. If he is there, do we take him?

2. If he isn't, how far up do we go to get him?

Seriously. If Kyler Murray is there at 13, take him. Maybe he’s too small and doesn’t pan out, but he’s worth the risk for the Dolphins. 2 years to evaluate him before Lawrence is draft eligible! https://t.co/x29pIZQxaV

— Andrew Abramson (@AbramsonFL) January 18, 2019

IMO, you go as high as you can to get a prospect like Murray. He's worth the 1st pick. However, I just can't shake the feeling that the old school GM way of thinking will push him further down than we all think.

Sit pat at pick number 13. Pick the best qb available. Kyler. Haskins. Jones. Or lock. If they are all gone? Start filling holes. But we have absolutely no qb deprh on our team. The ones we have should all be let go. Nothing here but garbage. Cant afford to trade up this year. Might be forced to next year tho?

Kyler sure is electric. But i havnt seen that kind of qb be consistant in the nfl?
Wilson would not be the wilson we know today if drafted by miami? Seattle had a special team. We don’t. Yet. Imo

"Miamiforlife wrote:

Kyler sure is electric. But i havnt seen that kind of qb be consistant in the nfl?
Wilson would not be the wilson we know today if drafted by miami? Seattle had a special team. We don’t. Yet. Imo

Seattles offensive line is trash. And their weapons have been average at best. They are far from special on the offensive side of the ball. Wilson makes that offense special.

"Nappy Roots wrote:

Seattles offensive line is trash. And their weapons have been average at best. They are far from special on the offensive side of the ball. Wilson makes that offense special.

where is the special offense now? Oh ya. The sorry cowboys smoked them.
Wilson is over rated. Argue all you want.
I say he is over rated. You say he is a football god. Agree to disagree. But at this point. If kyler was the only one of the 4 decent qbs to be drafted left at the 13th spot. Then take him. And i think kyler might have a lot more razzle dazzle than wilson. Seems alot quicker?

"Miamiforlife wrote:

where is the special offense now? Oh ya. The sorry cowboys smoked them.
Wilson is over rated. Argue all you want.
I say he is over rated. You say he is a football god. Agree to disagree. But at this point. If kyler was the only one of the 4 decent qbs to be drafted left at the 13th spot. Then take him. And i think kyler might have a lot more razzle dazzle than wilson. Seems alot quicker?

In 2018 Seattle was tied for 6th in the NFL in PPG offensively. 11th in 2017. Both years with average at best weapons and a bad offensive line. Id say thats pretty damn good.

I think Murray is definitely more talented version. But Wilson had 4 years as a college starter, so he was more ready coming out. We will see what happens.

Don't think he'll be the pick, as exciting as that would be.

"Russell Wilson is overrated" is one of the lamest and most ridiculous NFL takes I've been seeing over the past 2-3 years. Dude is a fucking stud and we would have been blessed to have him on our team.

I haven't watched any film on Kyler, but the first thing I would look at is his pocket awareness. If he's clueless then I would say we shouldn't bother ( I would say the same thing about any QB we could draft, even those that fit the physical prototype). However, if he is like Mahomes and can see the rush and move accordingly then I think he has a chance.

"Surfs Up 99 wrote:

I haven't watched any film on Kyler, but the first thing I would look at is his pocket awareness. If he's clueless then I would say we shouldn't bother ( I would say the same thing about any QB we could draft, even those that fit the physical prototype). However, if he is like Mahomes and can see the rush and move accordingly then I think he has a chance.

Kyler is like wilson with a turbo button.
He seems a lot faster than mahomes.

"Miamiforlife wrote:

Kyler is like wilson with a turbo button.
He seems a lot faster than mahomes.

I know its not the best evaluation, but I just went on youtube to watch a little bit of Murray. I like that he has decent vision and quickness. When he runs he is a threat to score, but he also seems to sense when to slide and get down. He has accuracy, a very quick release, and nice touch on his passes. Of course I am concerned about his size. One big hit and it could be all over. I also don't know if he can read defenses. That said, if he is there I say, why the hell not? I want to watch some exciting Dolphins football for change. He is as fast a Jackson, but can actually throw the ball. We just need to make sure we have a legitimate backup plan with a decent QB in the wings in case he goes down for a couple of games. How would a QB room of Murray and Foles as backup sound? What if we drafted 2 QB's?

"texanphinatic wrote:

"Russell Wilson is overrated" is one of the lamest and most ridiculous NFL takes I've been seeing over the past 2-3 years. Dude is a ****ing stud and we would have been blessed to have him on our team.

Other opinions are not allowed i guess?
He is a stud. But still has a harder time at qb than the taller mobile qbs.

"Miamiforlife wrote:

Other opinions are not allowed i guess?
He is a stud. But still has a harder time at qb than the taller mobile qbs.

You can have an opinion, and it can be bad. Carry on.

"texanphinatic wrote:

You can have an opinion, and it can be bad. Carry on.

Lol. Thats good. Just to be clear. I actually like Russell Wilson. He is as good as he can be for his size. Imo. That ball he throws up a mile and it lands right in the receivers bread basket and the defender is playing tight and still cant stop it. Is a thing of beauty. But his size really sucks when a good defense keeps him in the pocket. Then he can’t see anybody. Where as a taller qb has that one advantage. And its a big one. Size does matter no matter what the old lady says. Lol.

"Miamiforlife wrote:

Lol. Thats good. Just to be clear. I actually like Russell Wilson. He is as good as he can be for his size. Imo. That ball he throws up a mile and it lands right in the receivers bread basket and the defender is playing tight and still cant stop it. Is a thing of beauty. But his size really sucks when a good defense keeps him in the pocket. Then he can’t see anybody. Where as a taller qb has that one advantage. And its a big one. Size does matter no matter what the old lady says. Lol.

All things being equal, yeah size is nice. I would not let a lack of size turn us away from an otherwise great prospect though - any QB will have weaknesses, and any good OC will scheme away from it while a good DC will scheme to it. Wilson is a gamer and a playmaker. His size is rarely a limiting factor.

If the scouting staff and Grier don't have a top grade on Murray, then that's their call I suppose. But I think just hyper-focusing on size lands you in trouble as much as discounting people because of it. Take the individual, not their height and weight. :up:

"texanphinatic wrote:

All things being equal, yeah size is nice. I would not let a lack of size turn us away from an otherwise great prospect though - any QB will have weaknesses, and any good OC will scheme away from it while a good DC will scheme to it. Wilson is a gamer and a playmaker. His size is rarely a limiting factor.

If the scouting staff and Grier don't have a top grade on Murray, then that's their call I suppose. But I think just hyper-focusing on size lands you in trouble as much as discounting people because of it. Take the individual, not their height and weight. :up:

Well at the end of the day if you could have a 6'4 Russell Wilson or a current sized one, you'd take the 6'4 one every time.

I don't think size is an unbreakable barrier but at the same time you have to have skills that make up for that disadvantage.

Wilson is a very good QB despite his size but some people (not you) seem to want to throw out size entirely.

He's a kid, but I don't think this interview did him any favours. If I were an NFL GM my bigger concern would be his commitment rather than his height.