LBs that can run...JJ style

Agreed, these Dolphins are much faster on both sides of the ball. But they're also more balanced. They added Michigan LB Mike McCray (widely anticipated to go in the 3rd-5th rounds) as a UDFA. McCray the exact opposite of Baker--he's an interior 2-down force in the mold of NaVorro Bowman. Speed is his achilles heel, but he does everything else well. I'm really excited about this kid, and I think he's going to beat out Chase Allen/Mike Hull.

I'm expecting a lot of improvement from the LB corps this season.

WLB:

• Kiko Alonso

• Jerome Baker

MLB:

Raekwon McMillan
Mike McCray

SLB:

Stephone Anthony
T.J. McDonald as S/LB flex

"Redwine4all wrote:

I like the profile Miami is building for its linebackers...a bit smaller guys that can run. Speed is the uncoachable intangible. Jimmy Johnson knew that at Miami and brought that with him to Dallas. One of the great things about those defenses Jimmy had in Dallas was they had incredible football speed (Dixon Edwards, Darrin Smith).

We see it in the present day NFL too. Deion Jones, Telvin Smith, Ryan Shazier, Jatavias Brown (Chargers), Deone Buccanon, Zack Brown...all of these guys are smaller, but can play lights out because of the speed.

I have no idea if Jerome Baker is going to be a great (or even good) LB for the Phins, but I like where this is going. Give me that type of player on the field. Most of the scouting reports are going to say "lacks strength", but its nonsense. In JBs case, he bench pressed 225 (nearly his weight) 22 times. He's plenty strong enough, as are all of the above guys.

The one thing about the defense (and offense, too) this year is the added speed.

Baker most certainly doesn't lack strength in his game. I think he is very inconsistent in how to use his strength though. Sometimes he would get swallowed up. Other times he would shed nicely. I think the Baker pick is going to end up being a good one. I think it may take a year or two before we see his potential realized though.

"Redwine4all wrote:

I like the profile Miami is building for its linebackers...a bit smaller guys that can run. Speed is the uncoachable intangible. Jimmy Johnson knew that at Miami and brought that with him to Dallas. One of the great things about those defenses Jimmy had in Dallas was they had incredible football speed (Dixon Edwards, Darrin Smith).

We see it in the present day NFL too. Deion Jones, Telvin Smith, Ryan Shazier, Jatavias Brown (Chargers), Deone Buccanon, Zack Brown...all of these guys are smaller, but can play lights out because of the speed.

I have no idea if Jerome Baker is going to be a great (or even good) LB for the Phins, but I like where this is going. Give me that type of player on the field. Most of the scouting reports are going to say "lacks strength", but its nonsense. In JBs case, he bench pressed 225 (nearly his weight) 22 times. He's plenty strong enough, as are all of the above guys.

The one thing about the defense (and offense, too) this year is the added speed.

The problem with getting these JJ style small fast linebackers is that we dont run a jj style defense that protects them from blockers and allows them to roam free sideline to sideline. JJ ran a more traditional 4-3 with two big DTs and good edge DEs up front to occupy defenders allowing the linebackers free roam. The wide nine with our current personnel does not allow us to run a JJ style defense and does not protect the linebackers from blockers. The wide 9 requires linebackers who are strong at the poa and can take on and beat blocks without losing their run fits.

"hitman8 wrote:

The problem with getting these JJ style small fast linebackers is that we dont run a jj style defense that protects them from blockers and allows them to roam free sideline to sideline. JJ ran a more traditional 4-3 with two big DTs and good edge DEs up front to occupy defenders allowing the linebackers free roam. The wide nine with our current personnel does not allow us to run a JJ style defense and does not protect the linebackers from blockers. The wide 9 requires linebackers who are strong at the poa and can take on and beat blocks without losing their run fits.

True...but the game has changed as well. Its a much more passing league than it was. Speedy LBs to cover RBs and Slot WRs and TEs are
needed.

"hitman8 wrote:

The problem with getting these JJ style small fast linebackers is that we dont run a jj style defense that protects them from blockers and allows them to roam free sideline to sideline. JJ ran a more traditional 4-3 with two big DTs and good edge DEs up front to occupy defenders allowing the linebackers free roam. The wide nine with our current personnel does not allow us to run a JJ style defense and does not protect the linebackers from blockers. The wide 9 requires linebackers who are strong at the poa and can take on and beat blocks without losing their run fits.

With who the Dolphins have acquired and drafted over the past 2 years it's pretty clear that the Dolphins are not going to be running this traditional wide-9 you're talking about. They are going away from Will's and Sam's...and instead moving to mirrored OLB's and 4-2-5, 3-2-6, 3-3-5 type techniques. Of course you'll still see some traditional 4-3 play thrown in their. The LB's, except for maybe their Mike, won't need to have these characteristics you speak of. I mean, look at who they've picked up...

"Redwine4all wrote:

True...but the game has changed as well. Its a much more passing league than it was. Speedy LBs to cover RBs and Slot WRs and TEs are
needed.

This trend is way overblown. Teams still do run the ball plenty often, and if they see is us concentrating to much on stopping the pass with more DBs and smallish linebackers you better believe they are going to run it down our throats.

"danmarino wrote:

With who the Dolphins have acquired and drafted over the past 2 years it's pretty clear that the Dolphins are not going to be running this traditional wide-9 you're talking about. They are going away from Will's and Sam's...and instead moving to mirrored OLB's and 4-2-6, 3-2-7, 3-3-5 type techniques. Of course you'll still see some traditional 4-3 play thrown in their. The LB's, except for maybe their Mike, won't need to have these characteristics you speak of. I mean, look at who they've picked up...

Teams still run it plenty and you better believe they are going to power run it even more if they see us going more often with these db and smallish linebacker heavy alignments.

I'd expect it to become more package play based on the sticks etc. Jerome baker in some package stuff not in others. distance to the sticks dictating. more of a package based lb corp. than just a, b, and c period. hide the limitations and play to the strengths.

as much as possible.

"hitman8 wrote:

This trend is way overblown. Teams still do run the ball plenty often, and if they see is us concentrating to much on stopping the pass with more DBs and smallish linebackers you better believe they are going to run it down our throats.

trends are overblown just as style of defense is overblown. Speed on defense is effective.

"hitman8 wrote:

Teams still run it plenty and you better believe they are going to power run it even more if they see us going more often with these db and smallish linebacker heavy alignments.

good... if they run it means they dont have wide open TE downfield.

more speed limits gains when teams are trying to regain the sticks. you get them into 2nd and 13 lets say and you play a drop coverage that you are willing to give up 6 on to get into your sub package on 3rd and 7 or whatever and by having more speed options you actually are able to get into that sub pack because you save yourself 2 yards when they hit the dump option instead of them being able to dictate and maintain the sticks on 3rd down.

and Miami absolutely needed more speed and range at lb and at safety

at the end of the day you are calling stuff/personnel packages based on the sticks more than anything else outside of the scoreboard. not even tom brady can live in 3rd and 8 plus all game long.

Remember when Alex Smith converted like, a 3rd & 19 on us with his legs?

We desperately needed a Jerome Baker in that scenario. Unless I'm remembering incorrectly.

"hitman8 wrote:

The problem with getting these JJ style small fast linebackers is that we dont run a jj style defense that protects them from blockers and allows them to roam free sideline to sideline. JJ ran a more traditional 4-3 with two big DTs and good edge DEs up front to occupy defenders allowing the linebackers free roam. The wide nine with our current personnel does not allow us to run a JJ style defense and does not protect the linebackers from blockers. The wide 9 requires linebackers who are strong at the poa and can take on and beat blocks without losing their run fits.

Bingo. JJ ran a 4-3 stack with 2 gap technique DT's.

"danmarino wrote:

With who the Dolphins have acquired and drafted over the past 2 years it's pretty clear that the Dolphins are not going to be running this traditional wide-9 you're talking about. They are going away from Will's and Sam's...and instead moving to mirrored OLB's and 4-2-6, 3-2-7, 3-3-5 type techniques. Of course you'll still see some traditional 4-3 play thrown in their. The LB's, except for maybe their Mike, won't need to have these characteristics you speak of. I mean, look at who they've picked up...

Your statement is a a contradiction. An attacking style defense that mirrors OLB prototypes which is reliant on the front 4 pass rush is the wide 9 philosophy that we'll be using.

"invid wrote:

Remember when Alex Smith converted like, a 3rd & 19 on us with his legs?

We desperately needed a Jerome Baker in that scenario. Unless I'm remembering incorrectly.

Anyone who watched Kiko in coverage last season should be happy with the selection of Jerome Baker.

I love how "trends" dont matter but it's all scheme. Lol.

"Redwine4all wrote:

I love how "trends" dont matter but it's all scheme. Lol.

Both are important to a team's success. They follow hand in hand really.

"Carmen Cygni wrote:

Your statement is a a contradiction. An attacking style defense that mirrors OLB prototypes which is reliant on the front 4 pass rush is the wide 9 philosophy that we'll be using.

That's why I included the word "traditional".

tra·di·tion·al
trəˈdiSH(ə)n(ə)l/
adjective

1. existing in or as part of a tradition; long-established.

   • habitually done, used, or found.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Again, it's clear Burke is targeting certain types of players that typically don't fit into a TRADITIONAL wide-9 scheme. All the signs are pointing to a fundamental change in how this defense runs. Will it work? Who knows, but there's a reason he's picking these types of players and it's not because he's purposefully trying to fit square pegs into round holes.

"thetylernator wrote:

Agreed, these Dolphins are much faster on both sides of the ball. But they're also more balanced. They added Michigan LB Mike McCray (widely anticipated to go in the 3rd-5th rounds) as a UDFA. McCray the exact opposite of Baker--he's an interior 2-down force in the mold of NaVorro Bowman. Speed is his achilles heel, but he does everything else well. I'm really excited about this kid, and I think he's going to beat out Chase Allen/Mike Hull.

I'm expecting a lot of improvement from the LB corps this season.

WLB:

• Kiko Alonso

• Jerome Baker

MLB:

Raekwon McMillan
Mike McCray

SLB:

Stephone Anthony
T.J. McDonald as S/LB flex

Funny how you comoletely left out Chase Allen but included mike mcray who hasn't even put on the uniform yet. Chase was our best rated linebacker last year I would say he is the mike #2 right now with a good chance at being the starting sam in base defense.

"danmarino wrote:

With who the Dolphins have acquired and drafted over the past 2 years it's pretty clear that the Dolphins are not going to be running this traditional wide-9 you're talking about. They are going away from Will's and Sam's...and instead moving to mirrored OLB's and 4-2-6, 3-2-7, 3-3-5 type techniques. Of course you'll still see some traditional 4-3 play thrown in their. The LB's, except for maybe their Mike, won't need to have these characteristics you speak of. I mean, look at who they've picked up...

Going to get a LOT of penalties if we try to run those Defenses

"Puka-head wrote:

Going to get a LOT of penalties if we try to run those Defenses

lol.....I was trying to work and type at the same time...

"Puka-head wrote:

Going to get a LOT of penalties if we try to run those Defenses

Well played sir, well played! I'd laugh even more, but I'm embarrassed I didn't catch it right away.

Why do you think we want all these quick players, obviously to get away with all these illegal formations.

I'm glad it got pointed out though because I was doubting my own maths whilst reading the post.

With Minkah becoming the starter out of the gate why don’t we go full metal on this conversion for TJ McDonald, he plays and hits like a linebacker anyways, he would have above average coverage ability for a linebacker, he’s bigger than our third round pick, and he needs to find a position If he wants to be here.