Lets go back to this...Get inspired..or Re-inspired

does Brady or Manning use the read option?

"dolphin25 wrote:

does Brady or Manning use the read option?

that's not all that relevant to DJ's post. DJ's point is that neither Brady or Manning have the ability to run that kind of offense, Tannehill does and therefore we should take advantage of it.

While I do hope Gase mixes the read option into this offense, I do want to go on record to state that Tannehill is not nearly as smooth a runner to excel in a read option offense IMO. That scares me that if he runs it too much, he will get hurt. Truth is, I'd like to see Gase convince Tannehill to run about as often as A Rodgers and occasionally throw in the read option a few to several times a game.

"dolphin25 wrote:

does Brady or Manning use the read option?

QBs like Manning and Brady are close to extinct. Game has changed too much at the HS and college levels.

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DJ,

I believe you overestimate Tannehill's athleticism. He was a wide receiver because he has good straight line speed, height, and adhered to scripted plays. The athleticism that you desired is 'unscripted', which frequently is seen with college QBs that generate 80% of their teams offense. They have the mentality to make plays with their ball in their hand.

That say, I think Tannehill unique background allows him to play with another QB on the field. Logan Thomas may be the perfect 'change of pace' QB as he can stretch the field vertically while Tannehill is more a horizontal. Defenses may struggle to match-up as too LB-heavy risk being outrun by Dolphins' TE, RB, and Tannehill. Too DB-heavy have to deal with Thomas being a bull in a china shop.

The scripted Tannehill could line-up as a slotback, where he can take a hand-off for a planned roll-out pass or continue with the ball for a positive run to the sideline. Thomas could be incorporated into bunch sets, where he may be a blocker, runner, or drop back to pass.

Along with Dolphin25, Tannehill is better off to improve aspects where he's shown above performance. For areas where Tannehill is below average, I think Logan Thomas brings some skills (60 yard deep ball and tall pocket presence after 7 step drop plus he's a strong runner/scrambler) that can be incorporated into the offense.

Before we do all that crazy stuff with Logan Thomas, I would like to see what Gase does with Tannehill. I think that you are underestimating Tannehill's athletic ability. That has never been his problem. Let's just see what we have. I think this is going to be the year that Tannehill puts it all together. Everything is in place.

"eltos_lightfoot wrote:

Before we do all that crazy stuff with Logan Thomas, I would like to see what Gase does with Tannehill. I think that you are underestimating Tannehill's athletic ability. That has never been his problem. Let's just see what we have. I think this is going to be the year that Tannehill puts it all together. Everything is in place.

I would be shocked if Logan Thomas makes the team..

Good point.

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"Ohio Fanatic wrote:

that's not all that relevant to DJ's post. DJ's point is that neither Brady or Manning have the ability to run that kind of offense, Tannehill does and therefore we should take advantage of it.

While I do hope Gase mixes the read option into this offense, I do want to go on record to state that Tannehill is not nearly as smooth a runner to excel in a read option offense IMO. That scares me that if he runs it too much, he will get hurt. Truth is, I'd like to see Gase convince Tannehill to run about as often as A Rodgers and occasionally throw in the read option a few to several times a game.

Exactly, we should be running it just a handful of times, but let's actually run it--not this crap where it is a predetermined give to the back. Tannehill can definitely watch the DE and react accordingly. The other interesting point that I had forgotten from that QB camp is that Tannehill was successfully running a stripped-down West Coast Offense with the ability to audible almost exclusively no-huddle. What did Lazor do to this guy?

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

I would be shocked if Logan Thomas makes the team..

I don't know if Logan is the guy, but a big QB is a better fit if a team's trying is QB athleticism for 11 on 11 football. The 49ers put Smith and Kaepernick on the field at the same time, but they are too similar for the gimmick offense to last long; moreover, both wanted to be the starter.

I'm against using Tannehill in the read-option as hits from DEs, LBs, and safeties are not worth it. Instead, I think Tannehill's athleticism can used to get him outside for rollout passing, runs to boundary where refs are flag happy, and using motion from slotback position to run wheel routes.

The Dolphins currently lack a tough, inside RB and Daniel Thomas may be the most proven. Since the college game makes its QBs handle tough, inside running, the thought is that a Logan Thomas type could get on the field making college reads, passes, and runs. 3rd string QB would be prepared if needed for extended playing time based on their skill level with the short/intermediate passing game.

"Stringer Bell wrote:

QBs like Manning and Brady are close to extinct. Game has changed too much at the HS and college levels.

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it has changed, but is it better?

"dolphin25 wrote:

does Brady or Manning use the read option?

no they dont, yet one still had more carries than ryan last year..Thats philosophically and strategically unacceptable.

"Ohio Fanatic wrote:

that's not all that relevant to DJ's post. DJ's point is that neither Brady or Manning have the ability to run that kind of offense,l does and therefore we should take advantage of it.

While I do hope Gase mixes the read option into this offense, I do want to go on record to state that Tannehill is not nearly as smooth a runner to excel in a read option offense IMO. That scares me that if he runs it too much, he will get hurt. Truth is, I'd like to see Gase convince Tannehill to run about as often as A Rodgers and occasionally throw in the read option a few to several times a game.

just like Gruden points out specifically in the 25 minute video, if you run it just enough it has great impact on the way a defense plays you..Ryan has that ability, he knows how to get skinny, he has some speed and he knows how to get down..

This thread wasn't just about the read option, its about Ryan realizing how he can attack a defense with his skillset that I know is good enough to be a dual threat, now if the mental acumen is not there to connect the two then were in trouble, so far the acumen to use all parts of his skillset have not flashed in situations where I think its supposed to flash, were going on year 5 and if its not this year, then im afraid the instinct that tells a qb convert any which way you can is missing..

I know Gase worked with Cutler on making a defense pay, instructing him to manuever a pocket and take off..Jay cutler had more carries than Ryan tannehill last year, and you know Jay wasn't running the read option..im sure his carries were that of the improv style and knowing when to do it.

my point is you cant have brady's and cutlers running the ball more than this athlete..

a better team, coaches, skill players, oline is going to help ryan in the passing game, but only he can make this happen..

no more protecting the qb, its time to win, and do what it takes to convert

"Stringer Bell wrote:

QBs like Manning and Brady are close to extinct. Game has changed too much at the HS and college levels.

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as gruden points out in the video, he's been telling nfl folks that the high school and college game is coming to the nfl..

there will be two great prospects next year coming out that play qb...Mahomes and Watson, they will go 1 and 2, and they both are lethal dual threats..

"sandcastle wrote:

DJ,

I believe you overestimate Tannehill's athleticism. He was a wide receiver because he has good straight line speed, height, and adhered to scripted plays. The athleticism that you desired is 'unscripted', which frequently is seen with college QBs that generate 80% of their teams offense. They have the mentality to make plays with their ball in their hand.

That say, I think Tannehill unique background allows him to play with another QB on the field. Logan Thomas may be the perfect 'change of pace' QB as he can stretch the field vertically while Tannehill is more a horizontal. Defenses may struggle to match-up as too LB-heavy risk being outrun by Dolphins' TE, RB, and Tannehill. Too DB-heavy have to deal with Thomas being a bull in a china shop.

The scripted Tannehill could line-up as a slotback, where he can take a hand-off for a planned roll-out pass or continue with the ball for a positive run to the sideline. Thomas could be incorporated into bunch sets, where he may be a blocker, runner, or drop back to pass.

Along with Dolphin25, Tannehill is better off to improve aspects where he's shown above performance. For areas where Tannehill is below average, I think Logan Thomas brings some skills (60 yard deep ball and tall pocket presence after 7 step drop plus he's a strong runner/scrambler) that can be incorporated into the offense.

I feel confident that im pretty dialed into what our qb can do athletically, the lateral agility is not there, I get that..But he has enough to run and cut, which he can do fairly well, he's got a nice cut move and he's got good 4.55 4.6 flat speed.

also about the video, love how he just looks like a sponge, he's so damn coachable, probably to his own detriment..

Ive had folks that I respect tell me that him not running was related to other variables or that once he has experience it will come..

last year he pretty much nixed the art in his repertoire..cant have that and expect to win championships..just cant guys, lets be realistic..

but man when he gets out on the practice field and you see him run and throw, its exciting..gotta have the connection in his head, he's got to be conscious of the art.

"eltos_lightfoot wrote:

Exactly, we should be running it just a handful of times, but let's actually run it--not this crap where it is a predetermined give to the back. Tannehill can definitely watch the DE and react accordingly. The other interesting point that I had forgotten from that QB camp is that Tannehill was successfully running a stripped-down West Coast Offense with the ability to audible almost exclusively no-huddle. What did Lazor do to this guy?

The fact that Lazor went two game stretches without calling a read option when it was plainly evident to see how it worked well when he did, was slap in the mouth worthy.

"dolphin25 wrote:

it has changed, but is it better?

The player dictates that..when the next brady or manning come along they will change the game, until then I dont think trying to turn an athlete like this into one is the right thing to do.

I would like the same thing deej, but I don't think it's going to happen. I don't think it can happen. At least, not that type of option, designed runs, dual threat etc, stuff. I just don't think that's part of his game. He's a decent straight line runner with not muvh wiggle about him. He is never going to be that guy.

Now, I would greatly hope that they teach and encourage him to take off, tuck and run when there is no one open and he has a wide field in front of him as they often do. THAT he can be great at doing. I think he hasn't possessed that instinct enough to do that at the right time. He needs to trust those instincts and go. I think he tends to be hesitant and less instinctive about doing so. I do think that can be coached up. I'm hoping.

Like it or not, I do think Tanne will always be in the mold of a pocket passer, with a pinnacle example type of a Peyton Manning, etc.

"Sceeto wrote:

I would like the same thing deej, but I don't think it's going to happen. I don't think it can happen. At least, not that type of option, designed runs, dual threat etc, stuff. I just don't think that's part of his game. He's a decent straight line runner with not muvh wiggle about him. He is never going to be that guy.

Now, I would greatly hope that they teach and encourage him to take off, tuck and run when there is no one open and he has a wide field in front of him as they often do. THAT he can be great at doing. I think he hasn't possessed that instinct enough to do that at the right time. He needs to trust those instincts and go. I think he tends to be hesitant and less instinctive about doing so. I do think that can be coached up. I'm hoping.

Like it or not, I do think Tanne will always be in the mold of a pocket passer, with a pinnacle example type of a Peyton Manning, etc.

The read option I'm good with, we just cant be pu##ies about running it like Lazor was.

for example, in 2014 Miami, ran out of the read option more than a dozen times per game, with 146 read-option run plays for 721 yards that year, both were the highest totals in the NFL at that point in the year, Ryan personally had a 6.4 YPC with 45 carries.

I worry more about the improv running, thats even more non existent than whats happened with the read option.

I think we'll be just fine on offense, Deej...Pfffft, haha, Hahahah....Muahhahaaaaa

Do you know I read an article by Perkins that said he would have chosen Darron Lee instead of Tunsil....Hahahahha

I don't ever want to see a designed run for Tannehill for cheap yards except in emergency. Not with these ridiculous receivers we have. We may even have a decent line for once.

I'm gonna love watching this offense become prolific. And I'm a patient man, Deej, a patient man.

"djphinfan wrote:

just like Gruden points out specifically in the 25 minute video, if you run it just enough it has great impact on the way a defense plays you..Ryan has that ability, he knows how to get skinny, he has some speed and he knows how to get down..

This thread wasn't just about the read option, its about Ryan realizing how he can attack a defense with his skillset that I know is good enough to be a dual threat, now if the mental acumen is not there to connect the two then were in trouble, so far the acumen to use all parts of his skillset have not flashed in situations where I think its supposed to flash, were going on year 5 and if its not this year, then im afraid the instinct that tells a qb convert any which way you can is missing..

I know Gase worked with Cutler on making a defense pay, instructing him to manuever a pocket and take off..Jay cutler had more carries than Ryan tannehill last year, and you know Jay wasn't running the read option..im sure his carries were that of the improv style and knowing when to do it.

my point is you cant have brady's and cutlers running the ball more than this athlete..

a better team, coaches, skill players, oline is going to help ryan in the passing game, but only he can make this happen..

no more protecting the qb, its time to win, and do what it takes to convert

That :)

"djphinfan wrote:

The player dictates that..when the next brady or manning come along they will change the game, until then I dont think trying to turn an athlete like this into one is the right thing to do.

I agree you play to the players strengths, but I am not sure what those are for RT at this point.

As long as Gase is sure of his strengths--that's what I care about. I honestly think we have been spoiled by Tannehill. He has covered up a lot of bad personnel decisions and managed to eek out a few wins here-and-there.

Yeah, Tannehill is really a dummy.