How does Henne stack up on this list of QB's? I'd like to hear the Henne doubters' arguments.
1. 86.1 QB rating.... 240 YPG.... 64.4%.... 7.3 ave.... 1.25 TD/INT ratio (Henne in 2nd yr starting)
2. 67.5 QB rating.... 191 YPG.... 57.6%.... 5.9 ave.... 0.73 TD/INT ratio. (Brees 2nd yr starting)
3. 80.9 QB rating.... 208 YPG.... 58.3%.... 6.5 ave.... 1.57 TD/INT ratio. (Matt Ryan 2nd yr starting)
4. 80.1 QB rating.... 206 YPG.... 59.9%.... 7.0 ave.... 1.13 TD/INT ratio. (Roethlisberger 08 SB Steelers)
5. 82.9 QB rating.... 213 YPG.... 63.6%.... 7.2 ave.... 1.08 TD/INT ratio. (Penny 2nd yr starting)
6. 82.4 QB rating.... 197 YPG.... 60.2%.... 6.9 ave.... 1.40 TD/INT ratio. (Phillip Rivers 2nd yr starting)
7. 84.1 QB rating.... 258 YPG.... 62.7%.... 7.6 ave.... 1.13 TD/INT ratio (Peyton Manning 2001)
8. 72.2 QB rating.... 206 YPG.... 60.9%.... 6.3 ave.... 0.79 TD/INT ratio (Favre 2nd yr starting)
9. 83.4 QB rating.... 266 YPG.... 54.5%.... 7.8 ave.... 1.58 TD/INT ratio (Elway best season of his 1st 10 years)
10. 84.1 QB rating.. 259 YPG.... 59.3%.... 7.3 ave.... 1.42 TD/INT ratio (Marino yr 3)
11. 61.4 QB rating.. 157 YPG.... 48.5%.... 7.3 ave.... 0.62 TD/INT ratio (Fouts yr 2 starting)
12. 66.6 QB rating.. 171 YGP.... 56.6%.... 6.5 ave.... 0.61 TD/INT ratio (Aikman yr 2 starting)
13. 88.4 QB rating.. 222 YPG.... 63.7%.... 7.3 ave.... 1.58 TD/INT ratio (Montana yr 2 starting)
14a.77.0 QB rating.. 232 YPG.... 54.9%.... 7.9 ave.... 1.04 TD/INT ratio
14b.84.7 QB rating.. 182 YPG.... 56.3%.... 7.9 ave.... 1.40 TD/INT ratio (Bradshaw 78 & 79 SB Steelers)
15a.72.9 QB rating.. 176 YPG.... 51.6%.... 7.2 ave.... 1.12 TD/INT ratio
15b.82.7 QB rating.. 209 YPG.... 60.7%.... 7.7 ave.... 1.11 TD/INT ratio (Plunkett 80 & 83 SB Raiders)
16. 73.9 QB rating.. 208 YPG.... 56.1%.... 6.3 ave.... 1.15 TD/INT ratio (Eli Manning 07 SB Giants)
17. 76.6 QB rating.. 136 YPG.... 59.3%.... 6.6 ave.... 1.09 TD/INT ratio (Dilfer 2000 SB Ravens)
18a.79.9 QB rating.. 211 YPG.... 61.3%.... 7.2 ave.... 1.00 TD/INT ratio
18b.81.0 QB rating.. 216 YPG.... 59.2%.... 7.0 ave.... 1.21 TD/INT ratio (Jim Kelly 1992 & 93 AFC champ Bills)
19. 74.6 QB rating... 217 YPG.... 55.3%.... 7.5 ave.... 0.95 TD/INT ratio (Simms 86 SB Giants)
20. 82.6 QB rating... 184 YPG.... 56.9%.... 7.6 ave.... 1.36 TD/INT ratio (McMahon 84 SB Bears)
21. 91.3 QB rating... 225 YPG.... 63.9%.... 8.1 ave.... 1.44 TD/INT ratio (Theismann 82 SB Skins)
22. 85.9 QB rating... 226 YPG.... 60.2%.... 6.9 ave.... 1.91 TD/INT ratio (Brady yr 3 starting)
23. 88.9 QB rating... 229 YPG.... 63.1%.... 7.1 ave.... 1.75 TD/INT ratio (Flacco yr 2 starting)
24a.74.8 QB rating.. 180 YPG.... 58.1%.... 6.5 ave.... 1.00 TD/INT ratio
24b.77.1 QB rating.. 161 YPG.... 53.8%.... 6.6 ave.... 1.62 TD/INT ratio
24c.73.1 QB rating.. 190 YPG.... 59.9%.... 6.7 ave.... 0.81 TD/INT ratio
24d.69.5 QB rating.. 168 YPG.... 56.6%.... 6.8 ave.... 0.69 TD/INT ratio
(#1 overall picks Alex Smith, Jamarcus Russell, Tim Couch, David Carr's 2nd full seasons)
25. 56.2 QB rating... 171 YPG.... 50.0%.... 5.8 ave.... 0.61 TD/INT ratio (Ryan Leaf 2nd yr starting)
26. 71.1 QB rating... 169 YPG.... 62.3%.... 6.7 ave.... 0.53 TD/INT ratio (Vince Young 2nd yr starting)
27. 88.1 QB rating... 218 YPG.... 63.6%.... 7.5 ave.... 1.43 TD/INT ratio (Cutler 2nd yr starting)
I know I left out a few names, but I hope these are enough to make a point. :up:
Landing a top QB in the draft is one of the most difficult tasks to accomplish.... and as such, highly touted college QBs do not always translate to the NFL. The list is LONG of 1st round (and even #1 overall QB's) who became nothing more than average at best. Be happy that we found someone of quality in Henne who can be a top 10 QB. It's a waste of energy to consider rolling the dice in hopes of landing "someone better" b/c history has shown there is a slim to none chance of that happening. The logic and mindset behind all too many fans is difficult to fathom to be honest. You draft talent..... and then you develop it. That's how it works. "DEVELOP" being the operative word.
If any of you naysaying pessimists would like to provide a long list of QBs who have earned All-Pro honors or lead their team to a SB after only 1 or 2 full seasons, then I'd love to see it.
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You're not seriously trying to suggest that Henne is as good as (or better than) Brees/Rivers/Manning/Marino/Elway/Favre are you?
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Yeah, he still sucks :shifty:
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Thanks ToddPhins. I can always look to you for a reasonable post amongst the depressing threads we have encountered since Monday,
Ophinerated, djphinfan, Trowa and 2 others like this. -
Who the hell knows how a player turns out at any position? Henne may be great, good or, a bust. I believe that the poster is saying that he deserves the time to make those judgments, and I do agree. So far, he is looking pretty good to me.RevRick, djphinfan, DolfanJake and 3 others like this.
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Another great thing is that when he does take a hit, he holds on to the ball :yes:djphinfan and ToddsPhins like this.
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He's comparing Henne's 2nd year starting to the greats that play the game of they early years.
With all the stats that have been thrown around the last 2 days and people still think Henne is horrible and needs to be benched just have a vendetta against him or are too ******ed to comprehend what the stats are saying.MrClean and ToddsPhins like this. -
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Excellent post. I seriously think this should be post of the year.
RevRick, and ToddsPhins like this. -
Respectfully, that's all you took from this ENTIRE list?!
Brees, Rivers, Elway, and Favre were not elite QBs during their 2nd starting seasons. They were only young QBs with talent and potential, just like Henne. Brees and Manning weren't even as good as Brees & Manning then. They were shadows of their current selves. If anyone compared Brees and Manning back then to Montana or Marino, people would've said the SAME thing you are now. :wink2:
Now if I compared Henne to the names you mentioned while they were/are in their prime, then that would be foolish to do so.RevRick, Ophinerated, MrClean and 3 others like this. -
I thought we all agreed, to a man, that we wouldn't compare stats of QBs across different eras anymore.
Trowa likes this. -
B/c I'm basing it off of the 2nd full season starting alone. It would be unfair to compare Henne's first 17 games to everyone else with 30-32 games experience. Apples to apples here.... and the promising thing is the season isn't over and Chad has time to continue developing and improving over the next 12 games just as the QBs listed had an opportunity to do.phins3454 likes this.
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Good post. I think it does kind of put things in perspective. It took Drew Brees several seasons to become what he is now. I remember our defense having their way with him early in his career in San Diego.
ToddsPhins likes this. -
Great point that I think is underrated b/c it counts the same as an INT..... or worse b/c of the field position.
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I agree..... but for this case I don't think it should be completely ignored. It does help serve some purpose, especially when looking at some of the old SB winners etc who were good but not elite passers.
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Second, forget the stats, use your eyes and tell me with a straight face that you think Henne is on his way to a Brees/rivers/Marino level? -
Look at Fouts. Forget about the era. He completed less than 50% of his passes with twice as many TD's to INTs.
Multiple Superbowl Aikman didn't fare much better. What would the Cowboys dynasty of the 90's be if they gave up on him after a horrendous 2nd year.
Even Elway was nothing more than a good QB his 1st 10 seasons.
Bradshaw, Plunkett, Eli Manning, Dilfer, Simms, and McMahon didn't light up the league by any stretch during 8 SB victory seasons. -
You can't completely discount the eras because the rules were so different. It's alot easier to play QB today (in theory). You can't get hit, your receivers can't get jammed, etc.ToddsPhins likes this.
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Tell me with a straight face that you thought Brees and Rivers were on their way to "becoming" Brees and Rivers through the 1st 4 games of their 2nd season as a starter.Steve-Mo, Ophinerated, MrClean and 5 others like this.
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I agree...... but you can attempt to compare. Fouts & Aikman were pretty awful their 2nd year regardless of era.
Elway didn't become great till late in his career. Simms was a great QB but he had an average season when NY won a SB. Plunkett was good but not great IMO. Bradshaw was great but won 2 SBs when his play wasn't amazing during those seasons. McMahon, Dilfer, and Eli were/are nothing more than good IMO. Most of these guys had an awesome supporting casts and their SB wins were total team efforts. That's one of my points. -
Way to early to tell, but he is holding his own compared to the two guys drafted ahead of him.
[Table]2010 Comp Att Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD Int 1st 1st% Lng 20+ 40+ Sck Rate
Ryan 93 149 62.4 37.2 987 6.6 244.5 6 3 47 31.5 34 10 0 8 86.5
Flacco 83 145 57.2 36.2 920 6.3 230.0 5 6 49 33.8 40 10 1 4 70.5
Henne 85 132 64.4 33.0 961 7.3 240.2 5 4 48 36.4 46 8 2 9 86.1
[/Table]
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...d-447263-s=PASSING_PASSER_RATING&d-447263-n=1RevRick, Ophinerated, MrClean and 9 others like this. -
I remember comparing Crowder's role in the past to the same role of Patrick Willis in San Francisco... about the reasoning behind Crowder's lack of sacks... saying it was simply because Crowder didn't rush the pass like Patrick Willis... so the reasoning behind "he sucks cuz he never sacks the QB" was a dumb one to me...
And I was told "are you seriously comparing Crowder to Willis?!?!" when I was really just comparing their roles to the team... saying they play a similar role.
Some things don't change, it seems. -
Now this, is a great post. People need to chill with Henne being the problem. He is NOT the problem.Boik14, RevRick, Phinatic425 and 2 others like this. -
Excellent post Todd! It's amazing how people still hate on the guy even though he's having a solid season so far.
ToddsPhins likes this. -
thats the thing. I think Henne is right between Ryan and Flacco at this stage of their careers. It clicked for Ryan and he is playing very smart ball right now. I think Ryan is where we want Henne to be but Henne is slightly ahead of Flacco and considering the head start Flacco had that's pretty impressive to me
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Exactly!! :knucks:
And going into his 2nd season as a starter, he isn't expected to be the solution either.
He outplayed the field vs the Jets and deserved to win that game. There will inevitably be games over the next few years where he will underperform, and these are the games that the rest of the team needs to pull through & win it for us (like against Minne). That's the reality of a developing, young QB.... and this is also the reality of a successful team. Chad didn't have a poor game vs NE; he had a typical 2nd year game to be expected of any quality QB. He didn't win it for us, and he certainly didn't lose it for us either. -
Unfortunately....
Mark Sanchez
CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
2010 60 103 711 58.3 6.90 67 8 0 5 105.3
As much as we don't want to admit it. I think this is a major reason Henne is getting this much grief.
Great post Todd. Thanks.ToddsPhins likes this. -
i thought the defense did bail him out against new england but unfortunately our special teams put the dagger in the game. good points though on what it is to have a 2nd year QB. You have to have different expectqationsToddsPhins likes this.
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i think he's going to have a rough game against minnesota. that defense is going to tee off on him. we'll see though. he's strung together three good games
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vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member
A few things:
Nobody is suggesting that Henne is going to have a career like those Qb's listed.
What it makes a great case of is how illogical it is to have such a backlash against Henne like what we are hearing. Statistically there is no sound reason to believe Henne is not going to be a very good QB for the
Phins.
Everyone keeps saying..does he look like...but keep this in mind. He's under much closer scrutiny then any of the other Qb's listed, because we watch his every move. We break down every good and bad decision. How many of you saw as many snaps, games of the other QB's listed? Did u see all of Peytons second season games? Did u see all of Drew Bree's second season games? Did u watch them make the same mistakes Henne is making?
Looking at the numbers those seconf year Qb's had, is it not unreasonable to expect Henne to outperform those same very numbers, by what many of you are asking him to?Ophinerated, MrClean, djphinfan and 2 others like this. -
i can tell you one guy he is ahead of is eli manning in his 2nd yr and i saw every one of his games living in new york. one of the reasons i'm not worried about himRevRick and ToddsPhins like this.
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The main intention of this thread is to show 2 things:
1. That a team doesn't need an elite QB to win a SB (or multiple SBs).
2. All QB's on this list (and then some) needed time to develop into the QBs they became.RevRick likes this. -
I feel the same way. I do give Ryan the slight nod over Chad, but I'm not sure how much his extra year's worth of experience plays a role in the equation. I think Chad can bridge the gap this season as he continues to gel with the offense and his new weapon.djphinfan, and adamprez2003 like this.
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Sadly enough, I think you're right.
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