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Looking ahead to 2010 prospects

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by joeydolfan, Apr 29, 2009.

  1. mroz

    mroz Fix the OL Club Member

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    I think the way you take care of the offense is to sign A Bryant and O Daniels (hopfully there is a CBA). The Texans have three big time FA's this year and they are not going to be able to re-sign them all. The Texans also drafted a couple TE's last year which leads me to believe that they were positioning themselves for the posibility of losing Owen.

    I know it amy be unrealistic to get two players that are that good via FA but if the Fins could swing that they could focus on defense in the draft.
     
  2. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Man I think they'd be crazy not to re-sign Daniels. I think they'll re-sign he and Demeco Ryans.

    But actually, Miami could use any of the three players, Owen Daniels, Kevin Walter or Demeco Ryans.
     
  3. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Maybe a Curtis Martin type of back Stitches?
     
  4. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    I don't see him being that good, but I could see a place for someone like him here as he plays the same from start to finish and seems like a very hard worker.
     
  5. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    He could easily go to Cleveland or Washington and I dispute the fact that he's not an every down back.
     
  6. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    There's a lot more worthwhile possible picks than just those names.
     
  7. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Mays is not an NFL free safety.
     
  8. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Von Miller is everything Sergio Kindle isn't.

    I agree wholeheartedly about Miami and Earl Thomas.
     
  9. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Random but it wouldn't surprise me to see this management draft a seam busting tight end and then bring in Matt Spaeth, assuming Spaeth can get away from Pittsburgh. That's a bargain deal for a better player than given credit for IMO.
     
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  10. Prime Time

    Prime Time New Member

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    I have Gresham as our pick...
     
  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I don't see this team drafting Earl Thomas. I think it's one of those things that are nice to talk about, because he's a good player, but the chances of it happening are very low.

    There's a chance they walk into next season with Gibril Wilson and Yeremiah Bell as their safeties yet again, seeing something that most of us don't see and believing that these guys will get used to the system as they go, and eventually play a lot better when not asked to do so much, covering for rookie corners and a front seven that doesn't stop the run on its own.

    There's a chance that if they do cut ties with one of them, they will promote Tyrone Culver, since he's basically outplayed at least Gibril this year, and possibly Yeremiah as well.

    There's a chance that they've seen enough from Chris Clemons to know that they don't want to plunk such a large road block ahead of him on the depth chart.

    And finally there's the whopper chance that someone is available at our picks that is either plain better than Earl Thomas, or similarly talented at a more valuable and/or bigger need position.

    All of these chances add up, IMO, to make Earl Thomas a very, very low probability.
     
  12. F.O

    F.O New Member

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    This regime has size prerequisites at every position. I do not see them drafting a sophomore 5'10 midget safety like Earl Thomas in round one.

    At least Vontae was a junior with a long track record of being a possible top 15 selection. Some had Vontae as a top 10 selection the season before he declared. And listed as the most talented corner in a corner heavy draft.

    You can make a case for Davone Bess and his lack of height, but let's not confuse a 1st round pick for a UDFA.. And let's not confuse a #3 slot receiver to a safety this regime looks for. What was Chris Clemons' size who they drafted at safety last year ? 6'1" and 210

    Look at our first round picks - Jake Long and Vontae. Long we all know about.. Vontae is a muscular hard hitting corner, has the legs of a tailback, and an upper body of a built strong safety.

    I kept this article from a year ago.. Sums it up very nicely when they scout for 1st round picks. Now it's not a 100% guarantee, there may be variables involved. But the following is mostly true, to a large extent.

    For example - The injury to Gresham is a reason I don't see them picking him in the 1st round.. it was a serious injury.

    http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_football_dolphins/2009/03/the-dolphins-makeup.html

     
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  13. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    On the topic of the latter, I'm curious what the perception at large is. Most people seem to think he's a 4-3 DE/3-4 OLB, and I think he's probably best suited as a "true" linebacker who ends up as a Julian Peterson kind of wildcard on passing downs.
     
  14. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    That's a good piece by Omar but I wonder how much of it is stuff that they've actually told him, versus how much is stuff he just made up based on what he thinks they want, peppered in with some quotes that are mostly taken out of context.

    It all seems right, anyway.

    I'll add that the preference for guys who didn't just "pop out of nowhere" extends to looking at what kind of player he was in high school, how well recruited he was, and even looking at his bloodlines.

    Patrick Turner was a seriously high WR recruit. I think they had some interest in Clay Matthews, well you can't ever really say that the son of Clay Matthews Sr and nephew of Bruce Matthews ever "came out of nowhere".
     
  15. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    The fact that you refer to Earl Thomas as a '5'10 sophomore midget' just about sums it up. This is a very highly recruited kid, who has started every game of his 26 game Texas career on a perennial national title contender and who at 5'11, 198 is a whole 0 inches and 5lbs lighter than Eric Berry who clearly must be a "junior midget" and a whole 1/8th and 5lbs smaller than Vontae Davis. Davis started 34 games, Thomas will start 27 if he leaves after the Rose Bowl.

    This is a team captain, a hugely intelligent honor roll student with 10 picks in two seasons and 24 pass breaks ups this year alone, bettering anything Davis did in 3 years at Illinois. He also started 3 further years in high school and was a 4/5 start recruit nationally whereas Davis was just a 3. When you consider Vontae's rather mixed off field issues with the Illini it further disproves anything you've stated about what you believe 'this regime looks for'.
     
  16. Prime Time

    Prime Time New Member

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    While I agree that Thomas is not a "midget" I would argue that skill wise he does not compare with Vontae Davis. While Thomas has accounted for 10 interceptions in his two seaons at Texas, Davis has pick off 4 passes in the NFL; 2 against Tom Brady. Sure Dais has been beat a few times but this kid was the best corner in either of these two drafts combined. The love affair immediatly went to Sean Smith who has frankly been out played by Davis; in fact Davis' knock was that he didn't make enough big plays and turns out he is the biggest player maker on the Dolphins' defense
     
  17. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Very well said, as usual. Thomas has also played some cornerback and fared very well. He's quality in all aspects of the game.
     
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  18. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    Agreed!
     
  19. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think they'll certainly try to spend significant resources on a more dynamic receiving tight end, but I think Anthony Fasano and Joey Haynos are fairly safe.

    Fasano is a FA, but I can't imagine he isn't resigned. He's had a down year, but he's an excellent blocker, and I think if you do have that quality #1 receiving TE, Fasano gets a huge boost. David Martin drew the defenses best non-corner cover guy, and drew him out of the deeper routes for Fasano to go underneath vs. linebacker and pick up yards after the catch.

    Haynos has turned into a quality blocker too, and I think the big thing is he provides roster flexibility. He's played a ton of H-Back positions and done a fair amount of lead blocking. He'd be a backup to both TE positions and likely Polite at FB, too.
     
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  20. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    If they don't compare skillwise it's because Davis is a pure corner and Thomas is primarily a safety who's good enough, when needed, to man up on the boundary and play single coverage against a receiver.

    24 pass break ups in a single season isn't just better than what Davis did in any single season at Illinois, it's better than any corner or safety did in all of college football in 2009. Period. That immediately screams range. That immediately screams ball skills.

    And I'm pretty sure that only homerism could call Vontae Davis the best corner in the past two drafts when you have guys like Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Mike Jenkins, Tracy Porter, etc. in the 2008 draft and corners from the 2009 clearly outplaying him.

    Unfortunately, referring to Thomas as anything other than a very skilled prospect when 5lbs lighter than a 3 time All American Thorpe winner and legitimate top 5 pick in Eric Berry is naive in the extreme.
     
  21. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Sergio Kindle intrigues me to be honest. He does have some skill in terms of rushing the passer, although he isn't a pure pass rusher. He does however do fairly well at the point of attack.

    I know he certainly must get stronger and use his hands a bit better than he does to defeat his man. I wonder if he could be a candidate to get kicked inside in a 3-4. I don't think it would immediate transition, but I think he could be more than he's letting on. I'm not 100% sure, but he does intrigue me a good bit.

    Looking at Jerry Hughes, I think he'd have to put on a good bit of weight and add more strength than Kindle, although I think Hughes can move a little better in space. Kindle just didn't do much of it in college, not from what I've seen. Hughes definitely fills the production quotient though, Kindle is a bit up and down.

    I am not sold on either Rolando McClain or Brandon Spikes as sure fire first rounders either. Spikes can miss a lot of reads IMO. McClain isn't very sudden in terms of his movement, which makes me question whether he would really be an "improvement" over what we have.
     
  22. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    You know what, I'm gonna play a little devils advocate here, just for old times sake; my opinion on the secondary is well known from the Club, suffice to say that what Sparano has in the starters are solid run players. Quite clearly the decision was made that Davis and Smith could sit on islands in man coverage for the majority of the time without safety help over the top. That allowed Wilson and Bell to play closer to the line of scrimmage, with Gibril often operating like the strong safety - run blitzing, playing closer to the line of scrimmage and attacking the box like Secretariat attacked the home straight. They mix up their coverages in terms of down the field, but at times it's as though we play with two strong safetys and no FS.

    How many picks do our safety combo have? How many picks does anyone not called Vontae Davis have in the secondary? Culver has one I believe. Smith has none. Does Nate Jones have one? Possibly. I don't think Bell, Clemons or Wilson have one. That's an ugly statistic for any team when neither of your starting safeties have a pick, especially when we're ranked 23rd against the pass and teams are throwing on us for an average of 240 bills a game. There's a lot of balls in the sky and neither has a pick. Culver has 2 career picks since coming into the league with the Pack in 2006 and 6 picks total during his four years at Fresno State and now in his fourth NFL season. Clemons was hardly a prolific interceptor at Clemson either.

    Now I like Culver a lot as you know and he seems to be around the ball an awful lot and I think Clemons has possibilities, but he was a 5th round pick for a reason and whilst he replaced Wilson at the Jets, there was a reason Gibril was back in th eline up the following Sunday. Of course, I'm asking a lot for a rookie 5th rounder to keep a Superbowl winning, high priced FA safety out of the line up, but still.

    What you and I will almost certainly both agree on is that we need more turnovers from the safeties. More ball playing ability. I often talk in Lowering The Boom about Culver being a sort of defensive Lou Polite because he often seems around the ball. But is he around the ball more because he's playing as a dime defender rather than a pure safety, or even at times because he's playing the way that Arturo Freeman did as an extra linebacker.

    I don't think we should be ruling a game changing safety like Earl Thomas just yet.
     
  23. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    As I mentioned on previous pages, I think he's mechanical at times, he's not a great pass rusher against decent opposition and unlike Miller, he can't run the arc consistently. I like Hughes's ability to use his hands and he's much more of a threat to a tackle than Kindle is, IMO.

    I have been more impressed with Spikes as a senior than in previous years although his continuing tendency to overrun plays is a concern. He's doing a better job of getting off blocks. I think McClain lacks suddeness but makes up for it in instinct and awareness which gives him the half step he lacks from not being sudden. Any questions about speed of foot over speed of mind were dispelled once and for all in the SEC Title game when Brandon James took a pitch left or a reverse, I can't remember which and McClain flowed to the ball running parallel behind the line, hitting the edge of LT at the same time and getting to the sideline at the same time without losing a step on a kid who's 70lbs lighter and runs the 100m in 10.87 seconds.
     
  24. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Yeah, as usual you're probably right. It would make even more sense, with two strong blockers already on the roster, to bring in a Gresham who lacks solid blocking ability. They'll work him up in that department much like they worked up Witten in Dallas, but all they have to do is line him up in the slot or as an h-back out of the backfield, even when they keep their usual 2 tight end sets in. His ability to get down the seam and get chunk yardage means that they'll overlook the lack of blocking ability early on, when you factor in Anthony and Joey.
     
  25. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think it might go further than that, to the point where they may be ok with a guy whose career prospects as a blocker are pretty dim even long term. They were very willing to accommodate David Martin as much as an jumbo WR as anything, and they seem to be using Sperry in the same way.
     
  26. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Actually, while I'm throwing highly theoretical position conversions out, but would the Dolphins consider turning him into a linebacker?

    Thomas Davis and Brian Urlacher were both college safeties(Urlacher less traditionally so, but there was still ambiguity where he would play), and they've both turned out swimmingly.

    His size isn't necessarily an issue. Parcells drafted Kevin Burnett in college, with pretty much identical height/weight to Mays. People write off J.D. Folsom as a throwaway pick, but he's in the same general mold too. They've also seemed very willing to play with safety/linebacker combos. Yeremiah Bell plays a very significant portion of his snaps as a linebacker in nickel packages.

    Mays tackling technique isn't the greatest, but given he seems to not really have an issue with being physical I would think that would be something that would come with time?
     
  27. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I don't see us being in position to draft Mays, more than likely we won't use a #2 on him, and he will test well at the Combine, some GM will pull the trigger on him early in the draft just based on measurables and his USC resume.
     
  28. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Spikes and McClain are good players, but I don't I can say defacto that these guys would be first rounders. Mauluga was probably just a little slower, but was much more of a punishing tackler. He also was not instinctual and overran holes, and he dropped.

    McClain has those long legs, so once he gets a few steps in he will close ground quickly, even though he doesn't look like he's running. He isn't sudden, and he isn't very nimble in terms of flipping hips exploding out of it. Like I said, he needs a couple of steps to get there. I wonder how that will work out for him when he isn't afforded free space to run around in?
     
  29. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    He certainly isn't a hip flipper that's for sure. I think his instincts will see him through. Neither are slam dunkers IMO and hopefully I'll have that analysis done in the next day or so.

    I personally think McClain is better suited to a 3-4 although my concern is disengaging consistently from guards.

    Apropos of not a great deal, but Channing Crowder has generally had a very solid 2nd half of the season, playing well, within his limitations
     
  30. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I see that Anthony Davis is out. He goes up there with Okung as the top left tackle, although he needs to get significantly stronger IMO if he's really going to fulfil that potential.
     
  31. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    The thing with the strength is that he's already 325 pounds. How much more can he put on? He can be a top heavy tackle with good feet, though that would be a bit awkward. He also needs better technique. He'll get tall out of his stance and will get bulrushed. I've seen him have issues with speed rushers at times but overall, he's been pretty good on Saturdays. Off the field is different story with Davis. If Gabe Carimi comes out, which is unlikely I believe, he's possibly up there too. I've got Bruce Campbell on tape too but I haven't watched it yet. I've heard his name tossed around a lot as a top fifteen pick.
     
  32. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    True. This may be random as hell but I don't have any problem being incorrect, especially when talking to you. I respect your thoughts as much as anyone's here.
     
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  33. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I hear you, but the problem is this isn't about what you or I think. Maybe I didn't communicate that well enough. This is about what they're likely to think.

    And if the hopes of drafting an Earl Thomas hinge on an admission that they made a mistake and moved to a bad coverage scheme, that they now need to get a true free safety...well, I think those are small hopes on a team that needs WR, TE, DT, LB, and possibly RB.

    *I* would not necessarily be disappointed with Earl Thomas...I just don't believe that *they* would go there.
     
  34. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Has anyone aside from Alen taken a look at Dexter Davis of Az State? Not to exclude Alen but he and I already discussed him elsewhere.

    I think the kid could be a natural SOLB. Comfortable in space, comfortable in coverage, fights the Tight End really well, not much of a pass rusher, but a good run blocker. Quickness. Great balance. Seen the guy double teamed and shoved so hard anyone not from Krypton should be on the ground, but he always recovers on his feet without going down...like a weeble wobble.
     
  35. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Oh and by the by, I have taken a very close look at Brian Price lately, about three games, snap for snap, as per some requests...and he is STUNNING off the line.

    He seems like he's got one of those shock collars for dogs on his neck though. If he has to chase you too far he'll end up stumbling on nothing in particular and falling to the ground. It's not a stamina thing. I've seen that dude make some HELLA good plays at the end of a game, just willing the team to victory even though you know the dude is huffing and puffing. We're talking top notch plays with burst off the line the same as you saw in the first quarter. Just, if he has to chase you more than 15 feet...BZZZZZT! (falls)
     
  36. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Sounds like Boo Robinson at times. Suddenly, I am not comfortable with him at nose.
     
  37. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Duke's Vincent Rey is a very intriguing linebacker. Not the ideal height but he runs well, a tackling machine and doesn't look too bad in coverage. He's also a nice reader of the game.
     
  38. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    It's the only real caveat. Otherwise the only DT that I've seen dominate like Price has this season, is Suh.
     
  39. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Dan Williams hasn't quite bit there huh?

    I watched Brian Price obviously a lot this year. He's kept his team in games with his play. He was far and away a major pain in the *** and would be an ideal fit for a slanting 4-3.
     
  40. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    So powerful and so quick off the line, hard to imagine he'd have trouble with any scheme...but you're probably right.
     

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