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Looking ahead to 2010 prospects

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by joeydolfan, Apr 29, 2009.

  1. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I don't have an issue with him at strong safety. I think he's light years away from being a free safety however. Those hips, ugh.
     
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  2. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I like Cam Nelson too. Watched the same game and whilst I don't recall a lot of him going in reverse, he was excellent in the box and was all over the place. You said it really well, as usual. I don't have my notes with me at the moment but he impressed me some.

    Devin Ross I'm still mixed on. Very quick, good ball skills but as you note he's small. Sometimes he's tough and aggressive, toher times he struggles to bring down the ball carrier IMO. He lacks the strength to consistently bring down ball carriers IMO.

    Last, agree on Jacob Hickman.

    PS: Sorry for jumping all the way down to that part of teh post and not saying anything else on the others. The others I haven't watched yet.
     
  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I'm just doing a little more work on Freddie Barnes since I'll be seeing him tomorrow at Shrine practices.

    Two things stick out about Bowling Green.

    For starters, I'm interested in Tyler Sheehan as a pro prospect. He's solid, athletic, throws a good ball without serious mechanical issues, can throw from off balance, has a very good understanding of the offense, and his vision for the field is actually outstanding. If I were running a WCO I would be interested in him because of his feet and athleticism. He can execute things (and I'm not just talking about scrambling or bootlegs) that other guys can't necessarily.

    It takes a lot more than being in a wide open offense to get a guy shattering the single season reception mark. To make history you need a confluence of factors and Sheehan is a very strong factor in that record. Sheehan's a 65% passer and this year he had 27 TDs to 7 INTs. The only real burner on the offense is at runningback, so a 10.8 YPC is not overly surprising to me. Threw a TD pass in 22 straight games, played in 42 total games, accounting for 87 TDs (70 passing, 14 running, 3 receiving) with 31 INTs. He'll be in somebody's camp. Reminds me a little of a kid that used to play at William & Mary and bounced around a few camps...but this guy is probably better. He can throw off balance, he's got a quick delivery, keeps the ball up when he's moving within and outside of the pocket, and I don't think you realize sometimes but when a guy like this is throwing from the opposite hash on a short out pattern that ball is going 27 yards in the air and it gets there in a hurry, with accuracy and good spin. You can literally hear the ball pop the mitt on a short out pattern to the sidelines. He's a full 6'3" with a solid 225 lbs build. In fact he could probably use some more time in the weight room as he's got a little gut. He had a near-pick during the game that I think might turn people off if they're not looking close, thinking he doesn't have a strong arm. But that ball flicked about 32 yards through the air and it was coming from the most awful angle and body position, he's in the air so it's pure arm across the body, and there's a player hitting his legs and moving him further backward as he threw...which is why the ball didn't quite make it into the opposing bench...but it was still far enough that the DB couldn't come down with it with one foot in bounds. What he generally needs to do better is be more disciplined about making sure his feet are under him when he throws. You can tell he's one of those guys that has a good arm and knows it, keeps trying to keep a play alive and make it himself. But that can be reined in I think.

    Dude had five fourth quarter comebacks this season alone, heading into the game against Idaho, and he completed a really nice comeback and win against Idaho for I believe should have been his sixth (not his fault they didn't win certainly). They showed a stat where in the fourth quarter he was a 60% passer with 870 yards, 5 TDs and 0 INTs. That final throw to Freddie was a real beauty...showing a good accurate ball on a deep vertical.

    Secondly, I'm going to go ahead and disagree a little bit on some of the mud tossed at Freddie Barnes.

    Granted, he is PROBABLY going to struggle at the next level. Fact of the matter is he's got 4.65 speed as clocked by the pro scouts last spring and on the football field, that's how he runs. I wouldn't accuse him of just having a bad day the day they did a timing, or some such.

    But there is room in the NFL for a zone player like him. He has seven things that remind me of Davone Bess.

    1. Solid build. He's got the same solid build you might see out of a Wes Welker or a Davone Bess, someone like that. He has longer arms than those guys, if you ask me. He'll get more solid as he matures.

    2. He's a punt returner. The muff against Idaho was clearly a sun issue as the sun was bright and directly in the line of sight of the punt (look at the shadows), but he didn't completely lose the ball as you might see some punt returners do when they struggle with the ball in the sun. He lost the ball in the sun but he re-spotted it and made a quick burst to get under it...but the ball dropped through the wickets. I think you're going to live with moments like that from any punt returner especially early in his career. But as a return man he makes quick and good decisions and he is not wispy versus contact.

    3. He sees the field like a quarterback and is always working to make himself an available target. He has a real knack for getting lost by the defense, and it's not something that just happens. Some guys wave their arms like an idiot and alert a defense to their openness, and then even a guy as hopelessly unsound as Taylor Mays can find you in time to pick you off. You also can't just make a break for it if your QB isn't looking at you, you'll run out of free space awful quickly and you're also not going to get a defense to fall asleep on you by breaking full speed and looking like you know something the defense doesn't. Sometimes it's about quick decisions and subtle movements. He counts on Sheehan's vision, which is OK because Tyler has pretty good vision. Barnes plays cat and mouse out there in a lot of ways. Very aware of the offense, getting lined up right, adjusting his alignment when another player goes in motion, even correcting the alignment of younger players and not necessarily for obvious things that would get a penalty but for stuff that just helps the offense run better.

    4. The aforementioned hands are pretty outstanding. As a guy that catches 155 balls in a single season, you probably don't drop that many. The shoe top grab, the high ball, over the shoulder, his concentration on the football is Bess-like (when Bess doesn't have one of those weird phases where he's screwing off).

    5. Kinesthetic sense. He's got a really good sense for his feet and body. You can see it on the sideline and when he's going to the ground. I think he will not have any issues with finding his toes inbounds at the next level. That one play where he ran a longer dig and the field caused his feet to slip right out from under him, the body control he maintained to get his hand underneath him and keep the basket open, then haul in the ball...super impressive.

    6. Feel for running in traffic. If you're a Davone Bess and you're not a speedster, you're not going to be out in space all the time like a Ted Ginn. You're going to find yourself running a lot of screens. What Freddie shows me even on the screens that don't work is he has an excellent feel for pacing himself, finding his blockers and hiding, and knowing when to break out from behind them.

    7. Finally, blocking. He absolutely gets after it as a blocker. He keeps his stance wide and he stays on the balls of his feet, he uses his arms aggressively and locks on with them, keeps his feet moving and his body repositioning, and he is in no way whatsoever a lazy blocker. He looks for work and will hustle to find it. He's not a dominant blocker like a Demaryius Thomas because Bebe has the size and strength to dominate where Barnes has to get by on enthusiasm of which he has plenty. That's very Bess like, the solid build and quickness to stay in front of your blocking target, and the aggression and poise to keep your toes digging and moving to create movement.

    Now I've seen the arguments about his route running. Lazy routes. There's some of that there but I think what maybe isn't being told in that story is what he sees on the field and the quick decisions that he makes on the best way to get open.

    For instance, I respect Alen's opinion but very strongly disagree on the quality of that sell on the first touchdown catch against Idaho. This is where Barnes shows a good sense for the offense, the timing, and roles within the offense. This play is designed to create confusion. Barnes has to get to a spot and fake the sit down just before the Tight End breaks on his corner pattern, but he can't sit hard on the play because he needs to keep moving to create vertical separation down the middle once the safety has committed to the TE. It looks like a bad route if he was just going to sit in the zone but I think it has to look like a bad route otherwise the timing would be completely fowled up, because he's not sitting in the zone, he's going deep.

    There are a couple more instances where I wonder if the lazy routes are more decision or habit. For instance, early in the game he absolutely rounds a short out route, by about 2-3 yards. And as Boomer stated the zone was so soft that he was open anyway. But if you ask me, that's not a matter of habitual laziness. That's a read. Mike Martz has discussed how he tells his receivers that the most important thing to him is speed and getting to your spot in a hurry against certain reads. He doesn't care so much if you round, because it means you get to the soft spot in the zone that much faster. On this particular play, the soft spacing was obvious from the start. Any sinking of the hips, plant-and-drive...only would have delayed the timing of the route, giving defenders in a soft zone that much more time to read the QB and break on the ball.

    I saw this a number of times and I can obviously see why it might be mistaken for a lazy route but this is an umbrella zone and they're giving up huge amounts of spacing to Freddie on these out patterns. He's not going to fake anyone with his hips, head or whatever, because they're not even looking at him. They're looking at the QB.

    As for him getting off the line, I'm also seeing things a little bit differently. Idaho is trying to press him, actually. They're sitting CBs in press on him a fair amount. What you don't see is the CB actually rush up and get a hand on him at the line and this is because Freddie is taking the time to give a good fake at the line. He's not an overly big target and he is a quick, short striding player. If you gamble that hard on him, with him giving that good fake right off the line, you could pay the price...so the corner lays hands on Freddie more at the 5 yard depth...and I'll be damned if going on high Barnes' shoulder pads really affects his running in any way, you can see when he takes high shots after the catch they just fall off him and he runs for yardage after contact.

    Good instincts for shielding the ball with his body when working on the inside against bigger players.

    I think he's an interesting player. You're not going to target someone with 4.65 speed in the first three or even four rounds IMO...but in the end I could see him becoming another in a line of zone receivers, slot receivers, that are getting more and more popular nowadays...because he sees the field, he thinks like a quarterback (used to be one), he's a high-physicality player, and he uses strong hands and eyes to really haul in the ball. I think that he compares a bit with Jeremy Williams and where Williams runs more crisp routes that will work better in man coverage, Freddie might show a better understanding of how to change his routes according to whether he's seeing man or zone coverage, how to speed up his routes, make himself available to the QB, etc.

    Good little player. I don't expect him to stand out much during Shrine practices when everything will be mano a mano, quickness/speed/strength vs quickness/speed/strength. During a game he'll take over with his head and hands, though.
     
  4. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents Well-Known Member

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    Chris Scott got out schemed against VT but I would not count him out as someone that Miami would also be interested in, and very versatile .... Matt O'hanlon makes plays period...many more than his AA dictates he should, I will be interested in his true measurables ..... Arkansas's Mitch Petrus is a very very draftable guy IMHO and offers what this administration seemingly looks for.

    Fan freakin tastic write up..........hope to see some of you in Orlando.
     
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  5. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Taking another look at a guy in prep for tomorrow and the rest of this week, there's a lot of fandom out there for Naaman Roosevelt and I'm not sure I see it. Here are my notes from his game against Pittsburgh. Pretty much says it all.

    *Willing blocker to start things out

    *Good fake to get off a corner lined up in a press position, corner doesn't jam

    *Really launches/punches at Aaron Berry in run blocking, little too much reaching

    *Takes about 2-3 yards to stop on hitch, wasting short choppy steps

    *Play-ready after the catch

    *Bumped at the line very aggressively by Berry, goes flying back and to the side a few yards but recovers and runs along the sideline . Should never get bumped that bad.

    *Takes time to hip fake against man but rounds the out route by 4 yards, terrible

    *Nice run after the bubble screen getting that first TD but with RIDICULOUS blocking, not very challenging overall

    *How fast can he be? The 6'2" and 220 lbs FS Elijah Fields clearly outrunning him long, NFL Draft Scout has a 4.57 on file for Fields.

    *In his defense, when Fields was gaining ground Naaman MIGHT have been letting off the gas, but I don't think so

    *Relaxes as the game wears on, from a blocking standpoint, no real effort anymore

    *Terrible defense on next TD by SS Dom DeCiccio. Ball not thrown perfectly on slot post, a little behind Roosevelt, so DeCiccio makes a huge mistake biting hard and far into Naaman's jet stream looking for a ball that ended up being caught...Naaman now has nobody between he and the end zone.

    *On the TD, Naaman gets crossed up a bit after having to catch behind, delaying him, but kept his balance and was still able to run for TD on simple inside slot post

    *Good concentration on ball that was behind and at waist level, btw

    *Only slightly faster than LB Dan Mason, if at all. NFL Draft Scout has a 4.65 on file for him
    *Got some enthusiasm back to start the second half blocking, but didn't play through to the whistle even with runner right behind him, gets hammer and anvil'd from defender in front of him and RB behind him...ouch

    *Didn't give any fake on the inside slant from slot, man coverage on him tight as a drum

    *Cleaner dig, takes only 2 yards to stop, but still extra steps

    *Good high catch

    *Can get yards after catch, but not sensing yards after CONTACT, there's a difference

    *Lack of crispness on out route cost him timing and position with ball out early, incomplete
    *Suffering from cramping now

    *Ineffective punch to get off jam versus Berry, Berry able to stay with him, no separation

    *Fake at line keeps Berry from jamming him but Berry is stuck to him like white on rice from that point after

    *Good timing on an out route in man against Berry who softens up before the snap, nice catch

    *Decent form but ineffective fake on inside against a LB, unable to resist contact at 5 yards, no separation

    *Raped on the jam by Berry, that was awful

    *Didn't even make effort to point out a corner blitz by Berry before the play...Berry's been out on an island against Roosevelt all day except on two long TDs. IMO, Naaman needs to make an effort there when his man is showing blitz and the QB isn't seeing it

    *Telegraphs his out a little with his body position and head.

    *There's an interception he's not responsible for, but after the pick-off he's playing defense and shows lax effort to get to the ball, when he closes he settles for an attempted ball slap and makes absolutely no effort to tackle the player, he breaks off like 10-15 more yards to within inches of the goal line. Terrible effort

    *Contact knocked him off his route a bit, prevented him getting open

    What I would say about Naaman Roosevelt is that he isn't a four quarters player, or at least he wasn't in this game. He isn't a snap to whistle player. He isn't a sudden player and he isn't a super fast one. He doesn't have his head completely in the game and in the offense, helping out his young QB who was only making his second start ever. He struggles against the jam. He struggles to gain separation in man coverage. The two long TDs appeared to me to be a case of certain Pitt defenders really letting off the gas with a significant lead and making huge mistakes that created the TDs. On the screen, everyone got put on their butts in blocking and it was just easy. Should never be that easy with the talent Pitt has on D. On the other one, that's a safety performing a Taylor Mays special in coverage...again CREATING the TD for Roosevelt instead of letting him earn it. Without those TDs his day wasn't that special. It seemed a totally valid and effective strategy for Pitt to stick Berry on him on an island whenever Naaman was lined up outside, and sometimes when lined up inside. The announcers sucked up to Naaman Roosevelt too much...calling him "superstar" and whatnot. He's not an overly physical player.

    Now as for the positives, he's very ready to run after the catch. He's one of those. Keeps good balance and thinks quickly, good acceleration. He seems to have excellent hands showing a range of catches without issues with drops in this game. He has a good body, reminds me of Legedu Naanee for some reason.

    That's about it. I'd probably rather take a shot on Freddie Barnes and I know I'd rather take a shot on Taylor Price.
     
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  6. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I've also talked about Freddie Barnes in the past and the only things that have stood out to me from his game is his hands and his ability to find the soft spot in the zone. I've said in the past that if he makes it at the next level, it will be as slot receiver. However, he needs a lot of work.

    Further, I agree on Roosevelt. I said this when I watched Buffalo three straight times a couple months ago and I still think this way, Brett Hamlin is more impressive than Roosevelt to me. Hamlin has good hands and he has good field awareness. He's worked the middle in the past and has some Greg Camarillo in him.
     
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  7. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I saw your PM and I'll answer you ASAP, Ray. Sorry about the delay. I will see you in Orlando, as I'll give you my phone number so we can meet up. It's long overdue.
     
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  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Two more interesting guys I'll be really watching hard tomorrow...Larry Asante and Jeffrey Fitzgerald.

    I've watched Fitzgerald in the past. He played in Al Groh's 3-4 defense and honestly when I watched him there were times he absolutely stood out as more explosive than Chris Long. I thought he had a bright future ahead of him. Out of high school a well recruited three-star player, star baseball, basketball and football player, played both Tight End and Defensive End and was considered a good prospect at either. Unanimous freshman all-American having a monstrous year opposite Chris Long, followed up with another good year and then had "academic issues" that caused him to transfer out of Virginia. The K-State coach at the time was Ron Prince and Fitz landed at K-State due to Prince's close relationship with the Cavs coaches, so I take it he didn't really burn bridges with Groh or staff too badly. He's played in a very different scheme since going there, bounced a little from DT to DE, found a home at DE but I don't know that he can be a pass rusher at that spot on third down. He has absolute prototypical DE size if you ask me, and he is a monster against the run, with just enough pass rush ability to press the pocket. Oddly enough the guy has four interceptions in his college career, which when you combine with his experience as a highly sought after Tight End and his basketball career, you might think he could move out to a space position. But, he doesn't move like a space player or recover on his feet well enough. He's not a natural pass rusher from out in space. What I would want to do is stick him at a 4-3 LDE position in a scheme where you regularly zone blitz and have those guys pull out a little into coverage, reading the QB's eyes. But that has to be an occasional thing.

    As for Asante, he's just a really, really solid safety prospect that is around the ball a lot, has closing speed, the ability to read the ball and QB from far away, good sense for angles, and he's a physical guy. He goes for the legs a little too often sometimes but he's often face with really hard tackles in space because of the Nebraska scheme. He's built very Chambers-ish. Very communicative. Wonder how fast he is? NFL Draft Scout says 4.56, but I think he could be faster.
     
  9. CJGoCanes

    CJGoCanes New Member

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    I've seen before A.J. Edds being mentioned as a SOLB candidate, do you guys think he would be better there or possibly ILB? Also who's a better prospect, him or Jason Worilds? And can either, or both, of them be around for our 3rd round pick?
     
  10. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think ILB, now that I've watched him a bunch of times. I doubt he provides what you're looking for in pass rush at OLB.
     
  11. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    I'm really liking Doug Worthington as a late round 3-4 End prospect.
     
  12. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    LOL. This people is post that should be renamed 'Boomer's got me an interview with Barnes and I don't want to have to tell him he's lazy'.
     
  13. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I think Edds is more likely an ILB in our scheme.

    As for Worilds, I'm of the opinion, when all's said and done, that he could end up in the top 20 or so picks.
     
  14. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Just sayin. The guy weighed in today at 6'0" and 215 lbs, and in practice today he was the most adept at getting open versus man coverage, using the very techniques you pointed out that he doesn't use enough. He had a pretty killer high post corner today.

    We'll see in interview, I'm interested in knowing what he sees on the field.
     
  15. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    How was the day?
     
  16. 2k5

    2k5 I miss Ted Ginn Jr.

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  17. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    My first thought is that I as surprised that Haden and Mays are that high.

    I also would have Thomas and Hernandez higher. Hernandez wasn't even on the board and I think he'll be better than Gresham.
     
  18. vmarcilfan75

    vmarcilfan75 blah...blah...blah... Club Member

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    No Brian Price in Top 32?? :pity:
     
  19. SJ2100

    SJ2100 Season Ticket Holder

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    Intereting that he has Hughes, Spikes, Graham, and Cody outside the Top 32. Upon further review, he has Graham rated behind Hardy, Griffen, Sapp, and Wootton and Cody as the 6th DT.
     
  20. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I really think that in the end Spikes will be an option for us with our second. I have McClain above Spikes but I'm not sure if he's special enough to warrant taking as high as a Willis type. I worry that he's not good enough in coverage to ever be that 3 down backer at this level. If he isn't then he'll be a safe but low impact pick.
     
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  21. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    You nailed it. I'd rather take Dez Bryant or slide down. Wait until Spikes runs the 40- then we'll have a better idea of where he goes.
     
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  22. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Watched Brandon Lang last night. Essentially he's a sexier Greg Romeus. No homo. I like the way he's improved his ability from a year ago to be more disciplined in the run game and the way he plays the pass. He's not a tremendous rush threat off the corner but has great length and easily translates as a prime candidate to kick back outside at LB.
     
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  23. Big Red

    Big Red Long Lasting Freshness

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    Love Brandon Lang. :up:
     

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