Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim 2008 Thread

Completely understand, haha. But let's face it, Teixeira is going to be a money whore (which is his right and he's earned it) so it doesn't matter if its the New York Yankees or Long Island Ducks, he's going to go where the most money is. I'd be shocked if he didn't.

 

Same here though I actually hate the Sox more than the Yankees.

That's my thinking too but really really hope it doesn't happen.

 

Teixeira needs to be priority #1, but I like the pursuit of C.C. We need a back up plan for some offense if Teix falls through though. Manny?

 

This off season will clearly be entertaining.

Since the CoCo trade to KC, a small rumor to shore up the Yanks Centerfield D is a play for DeJesus in pinstripes.

I still would like to see Tex land in NYY system for his glove (infield of Arod, Jeter, and Cano would greatly improve my sleeping habits with Tex glove on the receiving end).

The Swisher trade not withstanding, Tex is my #1 Offensive/Defensive wish list.

CC I am on the fence for. I know we need to improve our production in the Staff side of things...but not sure about CC for the length of terms I have seen to date.

It will be interesting. Almost time for a OFFICIAL MLB OFFSEASON thread???

 

I think the official MLB Offseason thread is overdue actually lol.

With all the talk of CC wanting to play in Ca, I wonder if the Angels offer Santana money if he'd take it over the Yankees higher offer that would surely be coming?

And if C.C. means no Tex I'm not sure I'd do that. Vlad could be in his last year, we need a bat either to protect Vlad or to take over for him when he leaves.

 

Only if you give him 6 years it seems.

 

I would love to see CC go to the Angels...just stay away from the NL.

 

Here's the problem with all of this Boston talk.

1- Clubhouse: The Red Sox hardly like to break up a key guy in their clubhouse without reason to do so.
2- Money: Lowell hasn't been traded yet and it leaves you in terrible position to have Tex signed and just be stuck with Lowell waiting to see who you have to give the most money to. The man has 33m left on his deal last I checked. To reassure teams that he's fine you have to probably pay a 1/3rd of that. That's 11m right there at the least.
3- What's the point in raising payroll by that much? The team nearly beat Tampa Bay and currently the Red Sox are the favorites to return to the WS.
4- Just another name on a star-studded team rather than an icon and franchise player on the Angels.
5- Easier sports media to deal with in Los Angeles.
6- Familiarity.
7- The fact that the Angels will not lose Teixeira over just a couple million.

Great so now the Red Sox are going to offer a large deal of around 8/180 which in fact is more like 8/190 for Teixeira considering the Lowell transaction? What if they get stuck with Lowell? Then it's a huge bust financially. It's not like they're going to magically increase revenue. They're packed every day with extremely high prices. The Angels are somewhere around 18th in average ticket price. Even if we raise to the average ticket price level a year, we can roll in another 6m to pay whatever range we need. By the way that doesn't even mention that Tex felt completely screwed over by the Red Sox years ago during the draft.

Chances are that Arte and Boras are just battling it out. They want 10, we want 7 years at 20m per. Chances are the Angels will go to 8/170 and that should be enough to do it. After that I expect Chad Cordero, Paul Byrd, and Bobby Abreu to be added (10-11m a year, 3 years). They'll try to deal GMJ, by eating 6m a year on that deal and call it a day.

 

A lot of your assumptions about the Red Sox are false. First off Lowell has I believe $24 million left on his contract and 2 years. Money is no issue with the Red Sox because they are getting rid of Manny ($20 mill), Schilling ($8 mill), Coco ($5 mill), Varitek ($10 mill) so thats 43 million off the books right there so they have plenty of money to spend without going crazy with payroll. Also the Sox have shown that they can and will pay from some of a traded player's contract as they paid to get Renteria and Manny out of town, so by trading Lowell they would eat some of his salary it's not a big deal. And Theo has shown that he would trade or let go key players if he felt it was needed to make the club better, he either traded or let players walk such as Nomar, Pedro, Lowe, Damon, Cabrera and Manny.

And Teixeira got 'screwed over' by the old Red Sox front office, not the current owners so that would have nothing to do with any contract talks this time around.

 

Thats right!

 

I would disagree about the front office part and grudges. That can hold despite a change in whoever is currently running the ship.

The money issue on Lowell was an important clarification.

 

Regarding front office grudges: maybe, maybe not. I know Pedro Martinez stated numerous times that he would never pitch for the Dodgers no matter what because of the way they treated both him and his brother, Ramon.

Bottom line is money cures all, so if the Red Sox offer him the best contract I'm sure he'll look past what happened to him almost 10 years ago.

 

I think in this case especially you're probably right.

 

So what's our projected budget again? 125mm?

 

I believe that's where they want to be around.

 

Call me crazy but I'd call the dumbass Rangers and see if they're willing to a Gary Matthews Jr. for Kevin Millwood deal. Millwood's finally losing weight (15 lbs) and is a 4.64 or so pitcher outside of Arlington (maybe slightly better even in Anaheim). That's about what we're looking for out of the 5th spot and he has some playoff experience with good performance right under about a 4 ERA.

Texas on the other hand gets a guy who had plenty of success there.

At least that way we don't bust money on another guy.

 

I'd trade GMJ for anything. I'd even chip in on his next shipment of HGH to help him out at his new home.

 

That guy pisses me off immensely. The Angels could easily have even more flexibility right now and could be looking at adding Manny and Sabbathia without pushing payroll.

There are things to be excited about though. Sean Rodriguez had a good stint in Winter Ball. The best part is that he's fully capable of playing 2b, SS, and 3B. I can easily see him making Aybar or Kendrick trade-bait most likely the former. The kid Sandoval will replace Figgins in the near future as well and he can play 2B-3B with ease.

Wood needs yet another year in Triple-A though. He was putrid in Winter Ball. I can see him turning it on with one more year in Triple-A. The benchmark for hitting at SS really isn't that high. All he has to do is beat Aybar's puny 700 OPS.

 

There is a shocker....you'll most likely be saying the same thing next year. I feel every year he is considered a top 15 prospect who only needs one more year and then he'll burst on but never does.

 

Kind of how I feel at this point

 

Because we never give him a damn worth of consistent playing time. If you stop asking him to be a franchise player and sit back he'll guaranteed put up a .800 OPS which will put him as one of the better shortstops in baseball.

He's 23 years old, it's not the end of the world that he hasn't rocked the majors yet and the signs he showed late in Triple-A likely indicate he will walk at a decent clip. He'll strike-out quite often too, but he'll still be a plus player at SS with even a moderate projection. Sean Rodriguez on the other hand could be something really special at 2B if he weren't blocked by Howie "I have no idea how to hit a curveball" Kendrick.

 

There's truly one thing that puzzles me to no end about the Angels. Teixeira is available to be re-signed. He just turned 28. First basemen last gracefully till around 37-38. Boras is asking for a ten year deal worth two-hundred million.

Teixeira most likely will still be producing at that age, bar injury which (no less likely Torii injures himself than a 32-33 year old Teixeira, in fact it's more likely). He's worth the money, he has no real deficiencies that we know of. He does not have a knee injury as was clarified by Tony Reagins yesterday. For all we know he's just about what we've been asking for for the past who knows how many years. He's a true franchise player.

And yet we've haggling over seven versus ten years? We're willing to grant a 500 inning over 2 year pitcher 23m a year to likely put up something like a 3.5 ERA? I like Sabbathia I really do, but I guarantee you that even if it is Boras if you put out the offer he's looking for (this is based on the assumption it's 20 million offcourse, 22 would be pushing it but I'm convinced no one has offered that much for so long), he will sign. Give him the damn money. At least it won't be going to GMJ or Speier or to be honest even Hunter as much as I love him is getting older and has a huge salary.

The Angels should just re-sign Rivera for cheap, re-sign Teixeira, let K-Rod leave (get two first round picks might I add), sign Chad Cordero to help the pen, let Escobar join the pen later in the year, and sign a solid five on a one year deal (Paul Byrd, R.J., who cares really). They'll be just as good as last year, they'll pile up the wins and they'll have a great shot at Boston yet again without going over budget. They were one squeeze away from taking this series back to Anaheim and winning it with that momentum swing. If you do as your supposed to I can almost see the re-match.

Who knows maybe if our prospects finally step up on the offensive end, the Angels could be even better? All it takes is paying the exact same payroll as last year. So wtf Arte what do you say?

 

There's also another thing to consider here. The Mets are currently tied up, have offense and don't look likely for a Manny run. The Yankees have two-three pitchers to sign this off-season and while keen on Manny aren't going head over heels to get another "no defense position" player. The Dodgers are being very cheap. The Red Sox won't dare touch this guy again.

If the Angels were to sign Teixeira to a nice 9/189 deal (which isn't ridiculous or unheard of), what prevents them from going after Manny with a 4/84 deal? No one has come close to that length so far. Consider this, the Angels rank somewhere around 19th in average ticket prices at around $22. If they move to the average (about 3-4 bucks higher) that brings in before taxes and fees around 9-10m per. Say that they get even 5m of that back to the yearly payroll. That bumps the potential spending budget to a nice total of 43m for this year. Sure it makes it tough in the future to re-sign some players, but if we're so taxed for cash next off-season we let go of Vlad and essentially replace him with Manny. Lackey's salary will be taken care of by Escobar's expiring deal+Lackey's. Sure it may be pricey, but one World Series title brings in plenty of cash to make up for the difference and then some. We sold tremendous amounts of merchandise in 02, we can do it again.

To sum up after Manny and Teixeira, the Angels theoretically could add a cheap reliever like Cordero off of injury or rely on their own unless necessary and then go sign a cheap five man like Byrd for a few million to duke it out with Moseley and Adenhart in SP.

Too much of a stretch? It doesn't really break the budget...

 

Wonder if the Angels will kick the tires on Dunn if Tex isnt resigned now that Dunn wasnt offered arbitration?

 

He brings pop but that BA and those K's are abhorrent. Plays 1B and OF so at least he's versatile there.

 

BA is almost a worthless stat nowdays. He gets on base, that's what matters. I personally think Dunn is underrated. Yeah he strikes out a lot but what's the difference between making an out by K or making an out via fly ball or ground out? An out is an out. He's always shown the ability to get on base and hit HRs.

 

Angels | Garland likely to accept arbitration
Tue, 02 Dec 2008 12:49:07 -0800

Mike DiGiovanna and Dylan Hernandez, of the Los Angeles Times, report free-agent SP Jon Garland (Angels) is likely to accept salary arbitration from the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim and sign a one-year deal.




Angels | Four offered arbitration
Tue, 02 Dec 2008 07:22:28 -0800

The Associated Press reports the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim offered arbitration to 1B Mark Teixeira, CL Francisco Rodriguez, SP Jon Garland and RP Darren Oliver.











I was under the impression "management" really didn't want Jon Garland back.But if we do sign Garland that might "free up" enough money to insure Tex signs with our Halos.I say this because I doubt we'd go after CC or Jake if we sign Jon.


If Mark "walks" and signs with another team it better not be about money.



Btw I'd sure like to retain Oliver.

 

How much does Garland get if he accepts arbitration? I really didnt see much chance of us keeping him, but it does give us some flexibility with the rotation. He's really just an average at best pitcher, but he does eat up innings and is probably more reliable as a 5th starter than Dustin Mosely. We'll end up overpaying for his additional year of service, but I'm alright with that tbh.

 

My very rough guess would be that Garland would be awarded something like $7 or $8M for one season. That's about twice what he deserves, but as I explained in the MLB Offseason thread, arbitration rewards useless stats like wins and saves, and ignores useful stats like VORP and win shares.

It's worth noting that most arb cases are settled. For instance, Garland might demand $9M, the Angels counter with $6M, and they might well split the difference.

 

Id agree it's more than he deserves, but I can live with it over crossing my fingers and hoping Mosley or Adenhart are ready. I can imagine worse 5th starters, even it costs too much to pencil in the innings he'll hopefully eat up.

 

True enough. Better to overpay for one year than three or four.

 

A lot of smart baseball men would disagree with the 'productive out' theory.

Anyway yes obviously if you must make an out it's better to drive in a run while doing it. However there's failed logic in 'productive outs'.

All I'm saying is Dunn is extremely underrated. Sure he plays bad defense but if I were to tell you a 28 year old power hitter that averages 40 HRs, 96 RBIs, .381 OBP and .518 SLG and the guy is having trouble finding a job because he strikes out a lot and doesn't hit for a high average.

 

Still, when he goes 0-4 for a lot of games, that's a bit of a warning flag IMO. Taken into context, a bad BA can hurt. One of the things that hurt the Angels in the playoffs were the bottom of the lineup striking out 1-2-3. I don't doubt he's a hitter and underrated player but let's not forget the lesson of Andruw Jones. Got on base and hit HR's. Ask any Dodger fan if they want his *** off the team.

 

Jones never had the type of OBP that Dunn has had. Dunn has not shown the signs of decline Jones had either.

Regardless, back to the Garland issue. It will be 9.6m if I'm not mistaken because of the 20% rule on offering arbitration compared to next year salary. Garland's actually decent. If he puts up his usual 4.45ish ERA, then I'm all in favor. Moseley has shown no reason to believe he can do the same, Adenhart is nowhere near ready based on last season, and Green etc.. are not of the caliber necessary. Remember injuries happen and if they do you better have a 5 who can pitch like your average 4. Garland with playoff experience can certainly do so. He wasn't THAT bad last year. He ate innings galore and stayed in in certain situations where his ERA could have been protected if we had taken him out earlier.

 

Like Jaj said Andruw Jones never had the OBP that Dunn has. Plus again Jones was showing signs of decline in skills while his waist was growing.

Again about going hitless in games, I believe the stat is the difference between a .300 hitter and a .250 hitter is an extra 2 hits a week or something like that. The job of hitters is to get on base anyway they can and Dunn gets on base 38% of the time which is slightly below Vlad's .389 career OBP but higher than Teixeira, Garret Anderson and Torri Hunter who's a .272 hitter with a .326 OBP. Dunn is actually a more effective hitter than Hunter is, who was just sign to a big contract.

True the Angels problem was striking out in the playoffs but so was getting big hits, specifically home runs as Napoli was the only guy to hit any. The Angels don't have any lefty power hitters (besides Teixeira) and as a non Angel fan watching the playoff games the only guys that scared me were Tex and Vlad in terms of long ball threats. The Angels need another big hitter in that line up because a line up 6 or 7 singles hitters its hard to get the job done in the big games.

 

Ray, if you were a woman, I'd kiss you on the lips.

I LOATHE the inflated myth of the productive out. Yes, of course it's better to hit a fly ball to deep right field with 1 out and a man on 3rd than it is to strike out. However, OBP is significantly more important than the productive out, which makes old-timey baseball announcers get all misty-eyed and verklempt. Will Dunn strike out plenty of times with a man in scoring position? Of course he will. He'll also get on base more than enough to make up for it.

I'd say more, but Hardball Times already effectively debunked this myth.

 

And Jones managed to get on base 36.3% of the time in 2006. Not Adam Dunn range but certainly not far behind. Nick Swisher had a .381 and climbing during his time with the Sox, certainly didn't help either the Sox or the Yankees.

 

Ok but you're taking one year into account with Jones, whose career OBP is .339, so 2006 wasn't really in line with his career. And even Swisher is a bad example because he was flat out terrible last year, while he still has a decent career OBP of .350 which is decent not great (plus you can agrue that Swisher isn't even in the same category of talent as Jones was and Dunn is). Dunn's career OBP is in the .380 range which is very good.

 

True, but Jones has topped .360 a good amount of times. Swisher was getting .372 and .381 when it counted (i.e. when he got the starts) and he was a rising hitter. But I gotta believe Dunn's going to need a big pay cut. I believe he earned $13 mil last year. I wouldn't give him anything more than $9 for what he brings. And we haven't even touched on his defense yet. I could see him as a complement for Tex, Vlad, and Co. but not nearly a capable replacement for both Tex and maybe Garret.