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Make the athlete think before....

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, Aug 14, 2014.

  1. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    They engage....Because when you play at this level and you don't make the athletes think before they display their talent,you lose and you don't deserve the job, when your creative enough to understand how to make them think before they ignite their talent, you have the advantage..the athletes are too good to not make them think.

    2 examples of not making the athletes on defense not think.

    1) lineing up your speed #1 receiver 92% of the time on one spot.

    2) not moving your pocket nearly as often as it should.

    Allowing a defense to tee off is no way to go thru life son.predictability is your enemy..

    I expect a huge offensive improvement..
     
  2. A13OVEAVERAGE

    A13OVEAVERAGE Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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  3. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Marvin Harrison disagrees. It's not as though the defenders don't know the route combinations either X, Y, and Z. There are positives and negatives to both approaches.

    But I do agree with getting defenses thinking. Which is why Lazor is an exciting prospect. As far as offensive problems relating to the coordinator, I think the lack of motion and failure to compensate for the offensive line with a quicker passing game were 10x bigger issues.

    Much in the same way QB's read defenses pre-snap, defenses do the same to offenses. ****ing with their reads is a good thing. In addition, motion forces defenses to give away information about what coverage they may be in. It can only help a QB, IMO. Drew Brees and the 2012 Saints are a good example. Brees had a monster year by anyone's standards, but statistically the season wasn't up to par with the previous or the year after. Lower completion %, INT %, lower AY/A%, etc... Without Payton, the Saints were a lot more vanilla and predictable. The lack of motion was cited as a big reason.

    And given how bad the offensive line was, it was shocking how little effort Sherman put into the quick passing game. I don't think Alex Smith threw more than 6 passes beyond 10 yards all season ffs. :shifty: Not only were we bad in pass protection, but we couldn't run the ball either. A quicker passing attack would of helped alleviate both problems.

    Pressure from the outside (Left/Right tackles) was tremendous. Both tackles bled pressure and sacks. Both positions were by far the biggest culprits in ruining our offense/season.

    Moving Tannehill closer to those DE's/OLB's would of been terrible for RT. And it cuts half the field off, in addition to the possibility of extra pressure. Fact is, we couldn't block people with max protection. And Tannehill faced more dime defenses than any QB in the NFL... Giving him less options and flexibility isn't a solution to that problem.

    Besides DJ, how many times a game can we bootleg Tannehill? You seem to want him running east/west every play...
     
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  4. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Lol..mike Sherman did nothing to hesitate defenders, Lazor will, there is a difference in today's game.
     
  5. A13OVEAVERAGE

    A13OVEAVERAGE Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Haha, I agree with you completely.. I was just giving you a hard time for the spelling/grammar and that this should've been posted sooner. I think we all agree by now and are glad to have Lazor.
     
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  6. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Agree Deej. to be clear, I believe you mean coaches should make opposing defensive players think... not our OWN players., right?
     
    Paul 13 likes this.
  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Correct, I think it's something that isn't talked about enough in terms of why we were so terrible, and in today's modern game with these athletes you must make them hesitate.
     
    Bpk likes this.
  8. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I hear you. I a game that's measure in fractions of a second, and inches every little thing counts.

    Zach Thomas often said that that's what made him good. He wasn't the fastest, but because he could knew what was happening a split second before other players he could get there a fraction of a second sooner.... and that was the difference.

    Hesitation = Time = Distance and Position on a football field.

    If you get to the critical spot sooner than another player, that's a major advantage. If you are behind, it's a major disadvantage.

    It's the same as DC's talking about a cornerback needing to learn the system so well that he can 'play fast' instead of having to think about what he is supposed to do and figuring out where he needs to go.

    That's why, imo, so many defensive schemes are built on giving players a few key reads to 'automate' what they need to do. "If the FB goes left, you drop into a short zone. If the FB stays put you attack the A gap" type of thing. A GREAT Offensive Co-ordinator will design plays that directly **** with a defensive players keys, confusing them so they don't know WHAT to do. That leads to that wide open WR or TE walking into the endzone on a 'blown coverage'.

    Yes, this is a big deal.
     
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  9. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    you understand me.....lol....I'm just going to copy and Paste this post as my original then folks won't make fun of my late nite sleepy have to get off my chest posts..

    Every play should have some sort of play action or mis direction involved, if you have a dual threat Qb, every run should be based out of the read option, it's quite amazing what the formation actually does to the defenders, if you have the skillset and you don't run it, like I said it's a friable offense..the game has evolved..chip Kelly says so, I thought so years ago, and we have the closest thing to chip Kelly at this point..
     
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  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    getting back to this great articulate post....space...it's the great frontier, every inch matters, space equals fractions of seconds, fractions of seconds equates to arrival time..
     
  11. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    There's a nice piece on Grantland about Chip Kelly and his influence on the NFL. Lazor is mentioned. The piece goes into some specifics and has gifs of some plays that show how the run concepts work, specifically by taking advantage of a defense's lapse or alignment at the LOS.

    What a cool dude. The article talks about how it's his ability to mesh old-school tactics with simple numbers chess matches with modern tempo with packaged plays and on-the-fly adjustments. One hell of a coach.
     
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  12. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    As Kelly stated he isn't reinventing the wheel, but what's the one thing he does do for the #1 ranked running attack and the highest rated Qb in the league...the built in hesitation of the read option offense..

    The concept I failed in trying to articulate is making a lot of not so smart, incredibly talented athletes, think before they do what their bodies are capable of.
     
    Bpk likes this.
  13. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    It's not just read-option though. Check out the funky alignment here. But it's really just simple numbers. The defense chooses to account for two legit pass-catchers rather than the unbalanced line. It's totally in line with your point about how you have to make the athletes process information to slow them down even by just a second. (McCoy took this a long way down the right sideline.)

    [​IMG]

    Will we see any of this kind of stuff in Miami?
     
  14. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    The NFL is a Madden game to Chip.
     
  15. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I thought this quote from the article was interesting: "College football has produced a lot of innovation over the last 10 years or so, but many of the great college innovators lack the attention to detail to succeed in the NFL. At the same time, many NFL coaches are too ingrained in the old ways to adapt to an evolving game." I agree whole-heartedly with both sides of that quote.

    I also thought that the article's focus or rather Kelly's focus on sports science is revealing for us in terms of the Tannebaum hiring since he was allegedly brought in for that specific purpose. It shows Lazor's influence on Miami and Kelly's influence on Lazor.
     
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  16. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    , FACT, I've been talking about hesitation in the defenders relative to this formation and what the read option can do to the mind of a defender, and, FACT, I've been absolutely harping on moving Tannehill out of the pocket because of his skillset running and throwing from both sides, and FACT, what a complete travesty it was how Sherman constricted him to the pocket,I've been talking about all that ON THIS BOARD, and then some since you were pissin in diapers... are you talking about the article that was posted the other day where I said and quote in the thread " that article is exactly what we've been talking about all offseason"?, and I said it like that because I could of sworn it was someone who had been reading our forum for a while...FACT..

    I'm sorry you can't accept that I've been all over these concepts and theories way before any article you can cite or accuse me of pawning off as my own..but because you are so wrong on your false accusation, and if that article is indeed what your talking about, you must think I'm really smart considering the writer wrote everything verbatim from what I've discussed as major problems, and solutions. Almost too verbatim.

    You owe me an apology.
     
  17. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Because Ryan can run and throw equally effective from both sides, I think 4 to 5 times a game is about right Clark..this movement is all about not allowing the defense to know where he's going to be, getting them to hesitate before they attack the pocket, all while taking advantage of a major part of his skillset..
     
  18. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's false. Heterosexuals will always be welcome here. So will gays. Deal with it. I've debated Dj pretty intensely on Michael Sam but he's made some excellent points. Maybe you could learn a few things. I know I did.
     
  19. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    fact of the matter is you offered no evidence of this. You then proceeded to write checks your keyboard couldn't cash for you in terms of hurling accusations. If you're going to be hurling accusations at other members then you better be 100% right or simply report the post and let a mod handle it. Instead by hurling accusations you created further animosity between yourself and DJ. Whatever happened between you two I suggest you try and talk it out like grown ups via PM. The fact is DJ has been talking about stuff like this for years both in the mains and in club. If you asked instead of hurled accusations, that could have been explained to you.


    This thread is to proceed on topic. This is the warning. If anyone fires shots playfully or otherwise in relation to the post I'm quoting expect an infraction. If anyone has any questions or concerns about this it is to be directed to myself or another staff member via PM ONLY! If I don't respond right away, it's because I'm at work.
     
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  20. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    One thing to remember is that if you make the defense think more you also have to make the offense think more.

    Offense can be faster if you remove their need to constantly think.
     
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  21. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    But the offense will still have a major advantage over the defense...it's THEIR playbook. With the scheme/playbook they're putting together, hopefully there will be less audibles needed as well so the tempo can charge ahead, and keep the D on their heels.
     
  22. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    And that advantage is even higher if they don't have to think about it.

    Defense is still on their heels.

    One isn't hugely superior than the other. Both ideas of movement and not movement have their merit.
     
  23. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    I guess I have too high of expectations in their brains...knowing the playbook inside-out means not having to think.
     
  24. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The tempo that we have now seen is about speed for which the huddle breaks and the ball is snapped, making it very difficult for defenses to adjust their scheme, also limiting presnap reads by the qb, I think it's pretty cool because if you leave the huddle and snap the ball in the quickest fashion you can, you have that pre determined plan of where your going with the ball while the defense does not have time to adjust.
     

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