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Making a Case for Ryan Tannehill

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by KeyFin, Dec 27, 2018.

  1. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, strong blocking is enough. Lets not act like he hasnt had some great games when he had time. So maybe yes the Dallas o-line.

    Like I said, I dont care if we move on or not. I just think a lot of people suffer from thinking the grass is greener on the other side.
     
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  2. Bumrush

    Bumrush Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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  3. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    You can thank Gase for that. Stubborn jackass failed to nab a QB in a QB-rich draft.
     
  4. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I wanted to draft griffin but not with my first dude, don’t put words in my mouth..he went later than I thought he would..you were right..

    Your allegiance to tannehill is funny at this point..good luck with that..his own teammates are calling him out, and he’s not good like you call him, that’s been proven unequivocally.
     
  5. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Nah I wouldn’t worry about that Rox, the clean slate is enough to attract..

    But it is really messed up that they doubled down on tannehill when Mahomes and Watson were in striking range..the levity of those mistakes are huge..

    But they get paid so they must know better
     
  6. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    It was incredibly messed up. I don't care if he loved Tanny or not, it's about preparation for the "just in case". What's the worse that could happen?
     
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  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Numbers and film show below average.
     
  8. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I just want to know if Grier was the man signing off in that, that’s all I want to know..
     
  9. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Pretty good is better than average, pretty good is not as good as good..
     
  10. Big Phin

    Big Phin Member

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    Putting stats aside, for me, with Tanne at the helm, if the score is close and you need "that drive"...

    do you feel good with him getting you that drive or not?
     
  11. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End

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    Most likely it was Gase since he had control over the roster and would not have wanted real competition for Thill.

    I thought that Watson was the best QB in that draft.
     
  12. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    In October? Yes. In December? No. And that should tell us all we need to know.
     
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  13. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I had Mahomes as the # 1 overall, Watson 2nd and also a blue chip prospect.
     
  14. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ryan does not see or feel the rush as he’s focusing on the downfield assignment..you simply cannot win consistently with this type of flaw, especially on the road in hostile environments..hence the horrible road woes, and even worse, third down conversion percentage.
     
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  15. Losferwords

    Losferwords New Member

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    He’s a coach killer and career loser... how anyone can still defend him is laughable at this point.
     
  16. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    He's not a coach killer. That's the most ridiculous complaint about him yet. Every coach who has been fired has just been a bad coach.
     
  17. Losferwords

    Losferwords New Member

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    Right... it’s everyone else’s fault
     
  18. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    I think there are those of us who are quite open to moving on from Tannehill, but simply want to move on to something better, not worse and I don't see anyone available right now that fits the bill, at least in terms of a move that goes beyond a one year deal.

    If anything, my hope is that the Dolphins aim for a QB in the 2020 draft, and that for this year they either stick with Tannehill or roll with another QB on the roster, or pick up another temporary QB but it has to be cheaply.

    Bashing Tannehill as horrible is inaccurate, just as bad as saying he's elite. As for whether the Dolphins can win with Tannehill, at this point that's irrelevant unless we're talking an extension. Ross has made it clear we're rebuilding, so "win now" isn't the focus. Instead, it's all about best value.
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  19. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    Out of curiosity - what's your definition of a coach-killer and how do you identify a QB as a coach-killer vs. just a bad QB and/or a coach that got himself "killed"?
     
  20. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Which previous poster are you?

    Saying Tannehill is a coach killer implies that the coaches who we've replaced would have been effective coaches of not for Tannehill. That's simply untrue.

    Tannehill has his shortcomings. However, I think that a good coach would have been able to scheme around his deficiencies and been successful.

    That, and I know DJ and some others would disagree, but my feeling is that Tannehill has been at least an average QB, but on a below average team. So I don't feel like Tannehill needs average all around him in order to be average himself.

    I also have no issue upgrading Tannehill, but I'm also not a fan of just ditching him for the sake of change.
     
    Galant likes this.
  21. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    I'm of the opinion Tannehill CAN still succeed somewhere in this league. Another year removed from knee surgery and an off-season to get his shoulder back to normal will help him.

    As DJ said, though, his fatal flaw is how he basically funnels his attention downfield and ignores everything else that is going on around him. Besides that, he breaks down when things don't go according to plan and rarely turns a negative play into a positive one. Actually, he seems to have a tendency to turn a negative play into an even more negative one, with strip sacks/fumbles being a relatively common occurence.

    For Tannehill to succeed he'll have to go to a team with an established HC/system in place and a top 5-10 OL in the league, as well as a good running game. He isn't talented enough to overcome big deficiencies around him, that's the bottom-line on Tannehill, IMO.
     
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  22. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    I'm done with Ryan Tannehill as far as I personally go. It's been hard, because I have gone back and forth on him for the last five years in terms of he either is or isn't. I started to believe once again after the Patriots game, and had he stepped up and gotten us into the playoffs I would have become a full fledged believer. He did not get us into the playoffs and he actually regressed once again during the most important time of the season (December). The fact that he continues to shrivel in the month of December is enough for me to be done with him. It's not even the interceptions that bother me so much because every QB in the league throws them from time to time. What bothers me the most about him is that people continue to cite the offensive line as the reason he can't deliver when we need him to. No....It's his pocket presence or lack thereof I should say. It's being in a third and manageable situation in a tight game and him taking sack along with a ten yard loss. That is probably the single solitary most frustrating thing about him my book and it basically goes hand in hand with him not being able to deliver in December. There have been countless times (at least 200) over the years where that result (that I just spoke of) has happened. It seems as though this happens with him more than any other starting quarterback in the history of professional football. I know that is probably an exaggeration on my part, but that is how crazy those plays make me and that is why we need to be done with him. There is a saying...."If nothing changes....then nothing changes." Would I classify Tannehill as a coach killer? Not necessarily. I think Joe Philbin was a buffoon of a head coach, I think Adam Gase was a guy who was not quite ready for that type of job (same with Dan Campbell). So no...I don't see him as a coach killer by himself, but normally the success of a head coach is tied to whomever is the quarterback. Some did say that Tannehill and Philbin would leave together....They did not. A lot of us said "ok....this is it, Tannehill either delivers under Gase or he's gone"....He did not. It is time to be done with Ryan Tannehill. Seven years is long enough to "evaluate" his game. With that said, I do think Tannehill can be successful elsewhere in a different environment. I can see him putting up good numbers and winning games under a Belicheck, or Doug Pederson, or a Pete Carroll. He may even thrive on a team like Kansas City or the LA Rams where the surrounding talent is so immensely high that all of his deficiencies would be masked and hidden. Again...We don't have talent like that here so I think our specific rebuild starts with finding a franchise can't miss quarterback in the draft (or as close to that). There doesn't seem to be one available in this draft (based on what the experts say), but i'm definitely not opposed to spending an early round pick on one in hopes that maybe these jackass experts are possibly wrong. As far as Ryan Tannehill goes....This has to end, great guy, good student of the game, great arm, athletic, but no pocket presence and no "IT" factor about the guy what so ever.
     
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  23. Losferwords

    Losferwords New Member

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    Agree... I am not sold on Grier... he’s the very face of mediocrity in my mind.. dude comes out smelling like a rose yet is the ONLY constant in this train wreck of a personell Dept. over the past 18 years.

    Odds of him being good are remote at best
     
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  24. Losferwords

    Losferwords New Member

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    I’ve maintained for years he is the worst thing that has happened to this franchise... just good enough to make you think he’s about to “take the next step” but never bad enough to make you KNOW you have to move on.

    Meanwhile 7 years later...
     
  25. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Sorry Res... not buying that. You don't get through 3 coaches as a QB with no real improvement in your game from one to the next by not being the problem holding the team back. Sure, the coaches have made plenty other decisions outside the QB that haven't helped their chances either, but the fate of our last several coaches has been largely decided by the guy playing QB, as it mostly and usually is in the NFL.

    Sure, he's not the sole reason, but he's a massive part of it. If Ryan Tannehill had shown large amounts of improvement in his game from one coach to the next, I'd agree with you, but all he's shown is he's the same guy. Average.
     
  26. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Also the parade of offensive coordinators.
     
  27. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    I like T-hill. I've been a big supporter along the way. He seems like a good guy, but, at this point, it's safe to say... case closed.
     
  28. Not So Fast

    Not So Fast Well-Known Member

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  29. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Tannehill will go to a team that believes having a decent offensive line is a necessity and not an option and make the dolphins look like idiots for letting him go while they draft the next Joey Harrington and aj feeleys
     
  30. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    lol.. no other way to put this. PFF just HATES Tannehill, and I think it's specific to him. Check this out:
    [​IMG]

    Tannehill is the ONLY QB that is so far off from the trend line. Sorry that looks like more than "natural variability" LOLOL. ESPN's QBR also has Tannehill 2nd worst among starting QB's however so PFF does have company (DVOA bad too lol).
    https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2018/passing.htm

    Interesting that PFF left out Ryan Fitzpatrick and rated Lamar Jackson while pro-football-reference did the opposite in its starting QB list.
     
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  31. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    They are a still statistical analysis of a player, the film matches these two measures imo..

    He’s not a good QB.
     
  32. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    I wouldn't call ESPN's QBR and FO's DVOA a "statistical analysis" but you're right in that they use a formula at least (they're "models" not "stats"). I think what caused Tannehill to fall in their cases is that they try to apportion credit so some of those long TD's where Tannehill just basically handed it off were scored more the way you'd probably want them scored.

    So to some degree I can see a hit to Tannehill's rating due to that, but NOT so far as to put him dead last or near last!! THAT does not make sense at all, even based on film. And why is this anomaly only for Tannehill when PFF ratings are compared to passer rating? Look how linear that relation is otherwise. Yeah I think there's an unjustified bias there. Tannehill below Allen and Bortles?? NO way.
     
  33. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Lol why would there be a bias?

    And PFF has him last, are they bias too?

    Ughhhh who cares anymore ya know Cbrad..

    If some still believe he can be good then more power to them..just like some think Wilson is overrated..
     
  34. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    I don't think Tannehill's good. I just don't think he's anywhere near as bad as where those guys rank him.

    As to why there would be a bias? That's a good question actually. There shouldn't be a bias towards any specific player with ESPN and Football Outsiders because, as you point out, they use a formula. So with them it's just a question of what precisely in the formula is causing the low rating. We'll never really know because they don't publish the formula.

    But with PFF? Sure why not? Those are humans rating QB's. Of course it's possible there's a bias against a specific player.
     
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  35. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Naaaah..

    the stage exploits the weaknesses..
     
  36. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Not that I'm defending Tannehill, but this chart makes no sense! You mean to tell me a quarterback with a much higher passer rating than what, 12 other quarterbacks in the league, some of them shamefully lower than him is the lowest rated quarterback in the league?
     
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  37. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    How in Gods name can you look in the mirror and still.defend this guy?
    Nobody and I mean nobody thinks outside of.this site think he is anything but an average QB at best.
     
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  38. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    In fairness, he didn't say he wasn't average. He implied that the OL was a big failure for Miami and that Miami will look bad because their replacement for Ryan will be worse than he is.

    The point about the OL is accurate and I think we can understand the sentiment that Miami hasn't been brilliant at bringing in replacements.
     
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  39. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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  40. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    He said the dolphins will look like idiots when he goes somewhere else.and we draft a bum.In other words stick with tannehill.
     

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