Manny to be suspended 50 games

"King Felix wrote:

mannywood!

Not anymore...its now known as the north end again. :wink2:

"azfinfanmang wrote:

Ahhh cmon bro.

Stop a second, go look up annual Salaries for all the Teams.

Hate to say it, but along with the instant Success, Joe Torre has also brought a HUGE salary with him. You have silently become the Spinstripers of the West Coast. :wink2:

Spoken like a fan of a team that can't, or won't put out more money.

You want to know why the "buying a championship" will never fly? Not with the Dodgers, not with the Yankees, not with the Redsox or anyone else?

Because the last time I checked, NONE of these guys are playing for free. So until a team fields at least ONE player that plays for free, than no one can accuse another of "buying" a championship. They are all buying a championship. Its the worst argument in sports.

Don't blame L.A. because the D-Backs are underachieving...again.

"Borderland Wolf wrote:

Spoken like a fan of a team that can't, or won't put out more money.

You want to know why the "buying a championship" will never fly? Not with the Dodgers, not with the Yankees, not with the Redsox or anyone else?

Because the last time I checked, NONE of these guys are playing for free. So until a team fields at least ONE player that plays for free, than no one can accuse another of "buying" a championship. They are all buying a championship. Its the worst argument in sports.

Don't blame L.A. because the D-Backs are underachieving...again.

No, this where you aren't paying attention.
Of course they aren't playing for free, but just like any sport, you obviously are going to have different tslent levels.
Those with more talent are going to garner more money. Those teams that pay outlandish salaries are going to end up with the best players.
Those that can't pay exuberent salaries become Triple A-1/2 clubs for the teams that CAN afford to pay rediculous sslaries.

Got-it :up:

Leave the Women's Fertility Drug user alone......

"azfinfanmang wrote:

No, this where you aren't paying attention.
Of course they aren't playing for free, but just like any sport, you obviously are going to have different tslent levels.
Those with more talent are going to garner more money. Those teams that pay outlandish salaries are going to end up with the best players.
Those that can't pay exuberent salaries become Triple A-1/2 clubs for the teams that CAN afford to pay rediculous sslaries.

Got-it :up:

I think I got it. L.A. pays all of their players 50 bajillion dollars a day.

Matt Kemp
Andre Ethier
James Loney
Russell Martin
Chad Billingsley
Clayton Kershaw
Jon Broxton

I am not seeing a big payday yet and this is the heart of L.A.'s team.

Yes, Manny has a huge contract, but its not like he had 25 teams knocking down his door. Hell, L.A. is the only one who bid on his services.

So who is the big ticket player on the Dodgers that plays?

Furcal? Casey Blake? Orlando Hudson and his $2 Million dollar salary?

I think I just named their entire starting lineup, their top two pitchers, and their closer. Lets see, maybe their bench has a bunch of billionaires sitting on it?

Blake DeWitt, Mark Loretta, Juan Castro, Brad Ausmus, Xavier Paul. Hmmm. Nope.

Well surely their bullpen must be smothered in gold coated pitchers?

Will Ohman, Ramon Troncoso, Guillermo Mota, Ronald Belisario, Brent Leach.

But I can see your point. :lol:

On a sidenote, anyone want to trade L.A. a good reliever? Looking at that roster right now makes me want to puke!

"Borderland Wolf wrote:

I think I got it. L.A. pays all of their players 50 bajillion dollars a day.

Matt Kemp
Andre Ethier
James Loney
Russell Martin
Chad Billingsley
Clayton Kershaw
Jon Broxton

I am not seeing a big payday yet and this is the heart of L.A.'s team.

Yes, Manny has a huge contract, but its not like he had 25 teams knocking down his door. Hell, L.A. is the only one who bid on his services.

So who is the big ticket player on the Dodgers that plays?

Furcal? Casey Blake? Orlando Hudson and his $2 Million dollar salary?

I think I just named their entire starting lineup, their top two pitchers, and their closer. Lets see, maybe their bench has a bunch of billionaires sitting on it?

Blake DeWitt, Mark Loretta, Juan Castro, Brad Ausmus, Xavier Paul. Hmmm. Nope.

Well surely their bullpen must be smothered in gold coated pitchers?

Will Ohman, Ramon Troncoso, Guillermo Mota, Ronald Belisario, Brent Leach.

But I can see your point. :lol:

On a sidenote, anyone want to trade L.A. a good reliever? Looking at that roster right now makes me want to puke!

dont over pay for one everyone will thin kyou are buying a division win....:lol:

i love this "bought a championship" stuff.....i have been guilty of saying it....but it is absurd. there is nothing stopping private owners to put a ton of money in their ball club. spend money to make money. or put all your money in scouting like the marlins and do it their way....its been succesful.

I am not saying that L.A. is a small market club. They aren't. They do have a heavily leveraged owner though who has pretty slashed payroll as much as he can while still trying to justify to the fanbase.

If you add in that they are paying for Andruw Jones, Jason Schmidt and Juan Pierre to basically sit with their thumbs up their ass, than their payroll looks completely bloated. But looking at who is actually playing and contributing, the Dodgers are not that high.

Besides, who cares if they are, right? MY whole point is that none of these guys play for free, so using the buying a championship argument is folly. There is a reason thay are called owners. Because thay have aLL bought something.

"Borderland Wolf wrote:

I am not saying that L.A. is a small market club. They aren't. They do have a heavily leveraged owner though who has pretty slashed payroll as much as he can while still trying to justify to the fanbase.

If you add in that they are paying for Andruw Jones, Jason Schmidt and Juan Pierre to basically sit with their thumbs up their ass, than their payroll looks completely bloated. But looking at who is actually playing and contributing, the Dodgers are not that high.

Besides, who cares if they are, right? MY whole point is that none of these guys play for free, so using the buying a championship argument is folly. There is a reason thay are called owners. Because thay have aLL bought something.

I don't understand how the topic shifted from Manny but I'll play along: Regardless of whether or not you agree with the spending habits of certain franchises, would you concede that the economics of baseball are flawed?

Even as a Red Sox fan, this is painfully obvious to me. And I can't speak for other posters, but I believe this is the point to which they were alluding.

"nappy roots wrote:

showing someone in their rookie year as compared to today is not a good measure of steriods. getting the right weight training, training harder, and actually doing everything right is how these players get bigger.

i doubt you could pull up anyone that has hit 30 HRs in a season in their rookie season, and then much later in his career and their wouldnt be a difference.

btw, im not sure what you see in the pictures, but hes was legit big in his rookie season, and then he got bigger and fatter more importantly.

Miggy did that in one offseason dude. He didn't have a gradual increase in size like some other players. He was tiny in his rookie season compared to his 2nd and 3rd seasons.

"Borderland Wolf wrote:

Spoken like a fan of a team that can't, or won't put out more money.

You want to know why the "buying a championship" will never fly? Not with the Dodgers, not with the Yankees, not with the Redsox or anyone else?

Because the last time I checked, NONE of these guys are playing for free. So until a team fields at least ONE player that plays for free, than no one can accuse another of "buying" a championship. They are all buying a championship. Its the worst argument in sports.

Don't blame L.A. because the D-Backs are underachieving...again.

I have to disagree slightly. I wouldn't accuse the Dodgers of buying a Championship, but the Yankees and Red Sox I think you can make a good argument.

My case is simple: If you are a team that can outbid any team, any time, for any player then yes, I will say you are (attempting) to buy a Championship.

Mark Teixiera, CC Sabathia and AJ Burnett have bloated contracts because NY outbid every other team for their services, not because they are worth that much. JMO though.

"HardKoreXXX wrote:

Miggy did that in one offseason dude. He didn't have a gradual increase in size like some other players. He was tiny in his rookie season compared to his 2nd and 3rd seasons.

exactly :up:

"HardKoreXXX wrote:

I have to disagree slightly. I wouldn't accuse the Dodgers of buying a Championship, but the Yankees and Red Sox I think you can make a good argument.

My case is simple: If you are a team that can outbid any team, any time, for any player then yes, I will say you are (attempting) to buy a Championship.

Mark Teixiera, CC Sabathia and AJ Burnett have bloated contracts because NY outbid every other team for their services, not because they are worth that much. JMO though.

Let's hear it... :lol:

I count three big ticket FA signings on the roster: Daisuke, Drew and Bay (Bay came via trade, which wouldn't have happened without another big ticket FA in Manny, so I'll count him).

Hardly "buying a championship."

"FaninPatsyLand wrote:

Let's hear it... :lol:

I count three big ticket FA signings on the roster: Daisuke, Drew and Bay (Bay came via trade, which wouldn't have happened without another big ticket FA in Manny, so I'll count him).

Hardly "buying a championship."

1. J.D. Drew 14,000,000
2. David Ortiz 13,000,000
3. Mike Lowell 12,500,000
4. Josh Beckett 11,166,666
5. Julio Lugo 9,250,000
6. Daisuke Matsuzaka 8,333,333
7. Jason Bay 7,800,000
8 a. Kevin Youkilis 6,250,000
8 b. Jonathan Papelbon 6,250,000
10. John Smoltz 5,500,000
11 a. Jason Varitek 5,000,000
11 b. Brad Penny 5,000,000
13. Tim Wakefield 4,000,000

How many teams could afford to pay Julio Lugo 9 Mill a year? Just because you acquired those guys in trades doesn't mean you don't have to pay them.

I'll admit you guys aren't as bad as NY, and Im not saying you're doing anything other teams wouldn't if they had the money, Im simply pointing out that you are outspending other teams to put the best product on the field.

EDIT: One other thing I wanna point out. Kevin Youkilis and Papelbon are the only two guys on that list that were drafted by the Red Sox.

"HardKoreXXX wrote:

1. J.D. Drew 14,000,000
2. David Ortiz 13,000,000
3. Mike Lowell 12,500,000
4. Josh Beckett 11,166,666
5. Julio Lugo 9,250,000
6. Daisuke Matsuzaka 8,333,333
7. Jason Bay 7,800,000
8 a. Kevin Youkilis 6,250,000
8 b. Jonathan Papelbon 6,250,000
10. John Smoltz 5,500,000
11 a. Jason Varitek 5,000,000
11 b. Brad Penny 5,000,000
13. Tim Wakefield 4,000,000

How many teams could afford to pay Julio Lugo 9 Mill a year? Just because you acquired those guys in trades doesn't mean you don't have to pay them.

I'll admit you guys aren't as bad as NY, and Im not saying you're doing anything other teams wouldn't if they had the money, Im simply pointing out that you are outspending other teams to put the best product on the field.

OK, let's go down the list:

1) Drew - FA signing, already made reference to him.
2) What did Ortiz sign for during the '02 offseason? The guy, for the first half of '03, was riding the bench in favor of Jeremy Giambi. You're going to blame the Red Sox for finding undervalued talent? Seriously?
3) Lowell was a salary dump as part of the Hanley Ramirez deal. Hardly a case of the Red Sox only fronting some money and foregoing a draft pick. He's the best SS in baseball.
4) See above.
5) FA signing - bad move by the FO.
6) FA signing - already referenced.
7) Trade/FA - already referenced.
8a) Homegrown.
8b) Homegrown.

As for the rest of the list, signing anyone to a contract under $6 million per in baseball is hardly "buying a Championship."

The Red Sox have the resources to sign their own, which is something that not every team in the league has the ability to do. This is why I made reference to the fact that the economics of baseball are flawed in an earlier post. However, you cannot say that the Red Sox simply outbid everyone for the talent on their roster. In fact, you could perhaps make an arguement that the two least successful players in the top 8 are FA signees (Drew and Lugo).

EDIT: Of course, what you forget to mention is that Hanley Ramirez turned into Beckett and Lowell, and Heathcliffe Sloccum turned into Jason Varitek and Derek Lowe.

"FaninPatsyLand wrote:

Let's hear it... :lol:

I count three big ticket FA signings on the roster: Daisuke, Drew and Bay (Bay came via trade, which wouldn't have happened without another big ticket FA in Manny, so I'll count him).

Hardly "buying a championship."

Lets be honest dude the red sox, because of the size of their market and willingness to pay, can and do spend large amounts of money on players. Its not really something to be ashamed of but, I think we can all admit that it makes it harder for smaller market teams to compete. I would say the dodgers, mets, yankees and redsox have this ability to spend large amounts of money and do so. Its kind of the equivalent to what walmart can do to other businesses. Which is just squeeze them out of competition.

In regards to the price tag issues, nobody is getting the big picture.
Whether its money all being spent on thid years roster or past bad dealings is moot.
The fact is that a small handful of teams CAN and DO overcome HUGE exclusive salaries every single year.

What the first thing we see when any top-tier FA becomes available?
There is ALWAYS a very very short list of EXCLUSIVE teams mentioned. The same few teams have a chance to financially regroup every year.
As for the Bo-Sox
only having 3 marquee players, my heart bleeds for you. That is 2 more than most teams, and 3 more than some :up:

Back OT
Anybody else think its funny Manny was actually busted for a female hormone?

"unluckyluciano wrote:

Lets be honest dude the red sox, because of the size of their market and willingness to pay, can and do spend large amounts of money on players. Its not really something to be ashamed of but, I think we can all admit that it makes it harder for smaller market teams to compete. I would say the dodgers, mets, yankees and redsox have this ability to spend large amounts of money and do so. Its kind of the equivalent to what walmart can do to other businesses. Which is just squeeze them out of competition.

Says the fan of the team who signed Derek Lowe to $60 million @ $15 million per year this past offseason.

"azfinfanmang wrote:

As for the Bo-Sox
only having 3 marquee players, my heart bleeds for you. That is 2 more than most teams, and 3 more than some :up:

Don't know where this came from.. but I digress.

My point is, there's a difference between spending huge money on UFAs (i.e. buying a championship) and spending that money to keep guys you've acquired/developed.

"FaninPatsyLand wrote:

Says the fan of the team who signed Derek Lowe to $60 million @ $15 million per year.

at least derek lowe performs.....brad penny FTL :lol:

"FaninPatsyLand wrote:

Says the fan of the team who signed Derek Lowe to $60 million @ $15 million per year.

point?

"unluckyluciano wrote:

point?

Pot meet kettle.

Whatever, this is a hopeless exercise. Back to Manny...

"FaninPatsyLand wrote:

Pot meet kettle.

Whatever, this is a hopeless exercise. Back to Manny...

so I'm being a hypocrite because a team I have no control over signed a player to a big deal? Hate to break it to you but in no way does that refute my argument.

interesting article on what they caught manny with

link

And it helps men produce male hormones such as testosterone, which helps increase the production of sperm, the site says. Men with fertility problems — which can be a side effect of steroid use — may have HCG prescribed, the New York Times notes.

“Often infertile men will take it because it’s believed that it might increase the quantity and the quality of their sperm,” David Seifer, co-director of Genesis Fertility & Reproductive Medicine in Brooklyn, N.Y., and a professor at Mount Sinai School of Medicine, tells the Health Blog. “By doing that, it will increase the testosterone as well.”

"HardKoreXXX wrote:

1. J.D. Drew 14,000,000
2. David Ortiz 13,000,000
3. Mike Lowell 12,500,000
4. Josh Beckett 11,166,666
5. Julio Lugo 9,250,000
6. Daisuke Matsuzaka 8,333,333
7. Jason Bay 7,800,000
8 a. Kevin Youkilis 6,250,000
8 b. Jonathan Papelbon 6,250,000
10. John Smoltz 5,500,000
11 a. Jason Varitek 5,000,000
11 b. Brad Penny 5,000,000
13. Tim Wakefield 4,000,000

How many teams could afford to pay Julio Lugo 9 Mill a year? Just because you acquired those guys in trades doesn't mean you don't have to pay them.

I'll admit you guys aren't as bad as NY, and Im not saying you're doing anything other teams wouldn't if they had the money, Im simply pointing out that you are outspending other teams to put the best product on the field.

EDIT: One other thing I wanna point out. Kevin Youkilis and Papelbon are the only two guys on that list that were drafted by the Red Sox.

I really don't understand the list, especially why you only listed 13 guys and then say that Youkilis and Papelbon are the only ones that were drafted by the Red Sox, yet fail to mention (assuming you used ESPN.com, which it looks like you did) that Pedroia is next on the list, followed by Lester, Delcarmen, Ellsbury, Masterson and Lowrie who were all drafted by the Sox, not to mentioned Buchholz, Bowden and Jones who aren't listed. Again don't understand your point. By looking at the Braves page on ESPN.com there are only 4 home grown Brave players in the first 13 on the list so what does that mean? Anything?

The Sox have both the money to sign big free agents (which they actually haven't in 2 years) and a top notch farm system that has pumped out big league players for use for their team and also for use as trading chips (like Hanley, Anibal Sanchez, Kelly Shoppach, Craig Hansen, David Murphy, Kason Gabbard, Engel Beltre and Brandon Moss) ever since the new ownership took over.

Also let's mention that the Red Sox spent a grand total of $14 million dollars, which is 1 million dollars less than Derek Lowe gets per year or 2 million dollars more than Kyle Farnsworth got from the Royals, this offseason on 6 guys (Smoltz, Penny, Baldelli, Kotsay, Saito and Tazawa) which was in the bottom 3 this year with the Marlins and Pittsburgh. Again the Sox have made some big signings like Clement, Lugo, and to some degree Drew that they can write off as a sunk cost that would hurt smaller market teams but they're not simply outspending teams because they can. They're doing it with a combination of development, trades and free agents.

"SickFinFan33 wrote:

at least derek lowe performs.....brad penny FTL :lol:

Ah yes, what were the Sox thinking giving Penny, an injury risk, 5 million dollars for 1 year to be the team's #5 starter and if he sucked they could let him walk and have guys like Smoltz, Bowden, Buchholz and Masterson to replace him and if he's good they could either resign him or let him walk and collect comp draft picks.

I bet if you polled GMs around baseball they'd rather have Penny for 1 year at 5 million than Lowe for 60 million for 5 years, considering age, risk, health and wear and tear of course.

"HardKoreXXX wrote:

I have to disagree slightly. I wouldn't accuse the Dodgers of buying a Championship, but the Yankees and Red Sox I think you can make a good argument.

My case is simple: If you are a team that can outbid any team, any time, for any player then yes, I will say you are (attempting) to buy a Championship.

Mark Teixiera, CC Sabathia and AJ Burnett have bloated contracts because NY outbid every other team for their services, not because they are worth that much. JMO though.

And yet the Yankees have won nothing with those bloated contracts(referring to the last decade of salaries, not just those you listed). So why do small market teams complain so much? Your owners are billionaires also, complain to them. But in the meantime, money doesnt guarantee success.

Baseball should have a minimum that teams have to spend, with the luxury tax the way it is there is no excuse for some of these payrolls other than greedy owners.

As for Manny...if anyone is buying the dr. gave me a bad script excuse you're insane.