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Mars team ponders whether lander sees ice or salt

Discussion in 'Science & Technology' started by DevilFin13, Jun 17, 2008.

  1. DevilFin13

    DevilFin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080616/ap_on_sc/phoenix_mars

     
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  2. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

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    There was a speculative article in Science last week that reasoned that Mars might have been too salty to support life as we know it on Earth. I am anxious for some hard data about the soil composition to be released. Hopefully the team working on the lander will resolve the problem they have had with the soil collector soon.

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    Without getting all theological about it, I think there is a whiff in science that somehow "life" is inevitable. I think the process is a lot harder and will prove to be much rarer than some would assume.
     
  4. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

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    I think that life evolved here because the circumstances were right for the type of life we see here (in the presence of water, carbon, nitrogen and relatively low ionic concentrations.

    There have been two elegant experiments that strongly indicate that evolution is random and not directed by changing conditions. In other words, organisms survive because the acquire a random mutation before a change in environmental conditions. It amazes me every day that life can survive at all, much less prosper but it does.

    Given the inhospitable places that life exists on earth, I have no reason to doubt that there is life elsewhere.
     
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  5. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I think it is out there. I think there is a possibility that it might be too far for us to find. Still with what life we do have on earth in places where it is actually a surprise that there is any, leads me to believe it is out there somewhere else. Maybe not in our solar system.
     
  6. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    There's this creature:

    Let's just say they do find life on Mars or even fossilized remains, do you think it would change or alter anyone's religious beliefs?
     
  7. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

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    Water bears? Sounds like Bacillus pumilis.
     
  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    So then all these experiments to see if Mars is hospitable toward life are useless. We could just send some water bears over there and they'd thrive. Seems a lot nicer on Mars than what they're use to. :)
     
  9. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    They look like Martians to me.
     
  10. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    ??? I'm confused.
     
  11. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

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  12. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    No prob. Apparently it is easy.:up:

    Cool, about that other organism. Its funny how the smallest creatures are the toughest, and generally because they're so small. Do they think there are organisms that are even smaller, that we haven't seen yet, that would be even hardier?
     
  13. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

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    That is a good question. There are viruses that prey on bacteria (cartoon below) but the viruses that I know about (and I am not a virologist) are not that tough and cannot survive without hijacking other cells. My guess is there are smaller life forms and bacteria and viruses and it would be fun to find them.

    [​IMG]

    T4 bacteriophage on an E. coli cell

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  14. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    Technically they are not really alive^

    Anyway that white powder looks like cocaine to me.
     
  15. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

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    and monkeys are not sentient by current definitions. :lol:

    I'll grant you that you are saying what most institutions teach in high school and under graduate micro and cell biology but there is some debate on the issue. Here are some good resources if you are interested:

    The ways in which life is defined by many scientist

    How viruses challenge those definition

    Are viruses alive?

    I don't know the answer but I do know that viruses "figured out" how to bioengineer microbes, plants and even humans way before we figured it out. Viruses are probably the most responsible organism for gene transfer.
     
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  16. pocoloco

    pocoloco I'm your huckleberry Club Member

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  17. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

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  18. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    Thats an important development .If they can find Ice just below the surface in quantity that means there are possibilities for water production without having to do deep drilling.:up:
     
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  19. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I don't keep up on Mars stuff. Had they already discovered that Mars has water?
     
  20. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

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    Not but there was indirect evidence that water may have once been on mars. Hopefully this will eliminate all doubt.
     
  21. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

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    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  22. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    It was thought that all the water had evaporated or that if there was any left it would be deep underground .

    The Mars dust has kept all of it from evaporating although it does evaporate when the dust is removed.

    It remains to be seen how much of it remains in that state.
     
  23. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

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    The hypothesis is that the polar caps are completely covered in frozen water and probably frozen CO2. As points further south, the team assumes that the ice is just under the surface. This latest bit of evidence helps to make a stronger case for that assumption.
     
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  24. sking29

    sking29 What it takes to be cool

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    Interesting stuff. I admit I follow the developments loosely about Mars and I have a question; "Are they looking for any signs of life or complex life forms?" Enlighten me please.
     
  25. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

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    This mission is looking for the precursors of life as we know them on earth -- water, carbon, nitrogen (probably in the form of amines), etc

    There is a future mission planned that will be more comprehensive in it's search for life. The mission will include an experiment that the lab that I am in designed that will look for signs of respiration.
     
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  26. sking29

    sking29 What it takes to be cool

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    Thanks for the info. :up:
     
  27. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Mars lander finds soil 'friendly' to life

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/space/06/26/phoenix.mars.ap/index.html
     

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