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Marvel Phases 4 & 5 Discussion

Discussion in 'TV, Music and Movies' started by Unlucky 13, Aug 14, 2019.

  1. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Spoilery response below. Left-click, hold, and slide down to read.

    I think you can enjoy it without watching WV. But if you watch DS2 after last seeing her in Endgame, you're going to wonder about a lot. Kids. The Darkhold. Westview. Wanda's power upgrade. Heck, the Scarlet Witch could easily have defeated Thanos by herself. Personally, all of this would confuse me if I hadn't seen the show.
     
  2. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I kind of felt the same way as well. There were several things I forgot about when I looked around the web afterwards I was like, "Oh yeah....that sort of changes it for me." Several reviews say that it should have been 20-30 minutes longer and I agree with that, they just tried to pack so much in there that the pace could never slow down.

    I completely agree- one of those moments was at the end and it really frustrated me. But there was also the one constant throughout the movie that they kept saying about Dr. Strange. And I was like, if that was true, we wouldn't be in this multiverse mess in the first place. Little stuff like that bugged me.

    But then the ending part after the action slows down, where everyone ends up...I just didn't love it.

    Eh, that's my rant though and it feels pretty spoiler-free. It was a really good movie, but I almost think it would have played better as a Disney+ series over 6-8 episodes so we could digest it in bite-sized pieces. The pace wouldn't have been as frantic and they could have explored some of that stuff a little more.
     
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  3. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I would love for at least a flashback as to something that connected Wandavision to MoM. Though it changes the unsatisfying ending of not having enough consequences for her crimes at the end of WandaVision to, "Yea, she didn't. Isn't that something?"
     
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  4. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    IMO the movie sort of paralleled the show in that regard
    she never really faced consequences that weren't of her own choice. I am not sure I liked the ending, it felt like an abrupt end to the character. And while I liked the exploration of parenthood and loss and the toll it can take, I think just making her evil did a disservice.

    I also echo someone else's point made earlier that the movie veered away from what I expected, and to me it didn't work. To be blunt, I expected a kind of House of M type of thing. The reveal of Patrick Stewart, Wanda hinted at being the bad guy, it all felt like things were leading to that (because they were). Then the movie pulled the rug out and went all self-contained story largely. I felt kind of denied, and while I thought it was still a good movie, I kind of also felt a little let down. It was also definitely a darker, more horror-y tone than any prior movie. It does fit the magic/witchcraft theme, but also made it feel rather different than other marvel films.
     
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  5. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    I was surprised to learn that Xochitl Gomez, the actress who plays America, only turned 16 a few weeks ago. She was 14 when she was cast. That's a bold move by Marvel, when the industry usually casts university-age actors as teens, such as in Spiderman. It was an impressive performance by someone so young, and I wonder if it means she's in Marvel's plans for quite a while.

    Also, there's a rumor that the new director of the Fantastic Four will be Bryce Dallas Howard. If so, I'm very much on board. She's done great work as a director with Star Wars projects lately. (As a connection to my earlier point, she was 26 when she played Gwen Stacey in Spiderman 3)
     
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  6. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    She was originally supposed to be in Spider-Man No Way Home. Which was supposed to come out after MoM. Due to scheduling issues MoM got pushed back and all her magic scenes were given to Ned.
     
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  7. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    That would have been interesting. But on the flip side, Ned's character is now evolved and potentially more interesting/important going forward.
     
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  8. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    The She Hulk series on Disney+ has now been dated as a August 17th release. No word on the number of episodes yet. But given that all of the series except Wandavision (and What If) have had six, I'd say that's a safe bet.

    I wonder if we'll get more info on the upcoming projects at Comic Con in July? If not, we surely will at D23 in September.
     
  9. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    will be interesting to see how She-Hulk turns out. I wasn't thrilled with the trailer, but if they can pull off some comedy, that will help. having Hulk will help, along with reported cameo by Daredevil. Titania might be interesting. hope they use the show for more cameos
     
  10. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    I absolutely loved the trailer! I'm extremely excited for the series, and feel it has the potential to be my favorite Disney + show so far. It looks right up my alley.

    Curious about how much we'll get of Mark Ruffalo, and im a big fan of Jamella Jamil, so I'm very interested to see her as Titania. Also pleasantly surprised that it's nine episodes and not six.

    On the other hand, I'm going to watch Ms Marvel mostly out of obligation. Not excited at all. It looks so lame. I hope that I'm proven wrong, but right now I'm wishing that they made it as a non mcu show.
     
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  11. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    Ms Marvel came out in comics when I was in my non-comic era.I just don't know much about her. At least she-hulk, I grew up with even though she was hardly ever a main character
     
  12. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    I've been out of comics since the mid 90s, but as far as I can gather, Ms Marvel, as she appears in this show, is a very recent creation, debuting since the start of the MCU. Maybe the first lead character who has that distinction.

    She Hulk was very popular when I was in high school in the early 90s. I never read those comics, but I know that a lot of people were into them. I was much more an X Men fan.
     
  13. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    With MOM dipping into elements of horror, I would love an X-men Brood movie. THen they could introduce the Shiar.
     
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  14. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    MoM was enough horror for me for the rest of the MCU's lifetime, thank you. Not my genre at all.
     
  15. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Ms Marvel is a really good character. Though the TV show changes her powers a lot. She is pretty much a modern day Peter Parker, which is a good thing.

    I loved the She Hulk trailer though I really dislike the look of She Hulk. The rumor is that kept on telling the animators not to make her too muscular, which I think if true is a mistake. She looks very rubbery. I hope they touch up the CGI a little because now it looks rough.
     
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  16. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    It did look a bit cartoony with the CGI. But as I understand it in the comics, the character has had a wide variety of looks over the years, some more muscular than others. I know that when I was still big into comics and reading Wizard, she was often drawn pretty similarly to how she looks on the show. Not sure if her "standard" look changed a lot after that.
     
  17. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I just think when it comes to animating in the real world having more thickness would make her look less rubbery. In some of the shots it looks like she is supposed to be Mr. Fantastic. I just thought she looks wrong.

    I also think adding more muscle would help with the uncanny valley. I never got that feeling with Hulk or Thanos.
     
  18. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    Like a lot of people, I've thought that Hulk's CGI has become less believable as the years have gone on. Which is the opposite of what I would have thought beforehand, but I've read that CGI studios have been spread thin, and even Marvel has cut corners with it. From the trailer, her's looks pretty much in line with his from the last few most recent movies.

    Given the nature of the show, I'm going to wager that a lot of what we end up seeing is more of a zoomed in close up of her face and upper body, and less of the full shot action. A live action show with a primary character who's fully CGI for much of it and needs to look believable is a big deal. We'll see how well they pull it off. Most of the time, these characters are in mostly CGI worlds or have a cartoon look to them, but that can't work here. She needs to look believable.
     
  19. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Yea, but it is not creepy. I find She Hulk moving towards that weird creepy feeling when something looks real but is not real.

    I don't think it needs to look believable. Just not distracting.
     
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  20. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    I know that the Uncanny Valley has become a big topic of discussion. I get it, but its not as big a deal to me as it seems to be for a lot of other people. Maybe because I play a lot of video games that have the same type of thing and I'm more used to it.
     
  21. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Agree. Overall I like the vibe, but the CGI felt off, the body should be more muscular/thick - the way it is now reminds me more of the blue people from Avatar rather than the Hulk's cousin. The face/mouth are also off a bit. If not improved, it might cause some problems.

    Shifting gears, I'm really jazzed by the new Love and Thunder trailer. Lots of the same humor that served Ragnarok well imo, but Gorr and Christian Bale look like they might bring some more gravitas, which Ragnarok often lacked. Definitely excited to see it.
     
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  22. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    I actually strongly prefer a minimum of gravitas, myself. Cate Blanchet's Hela is my favorite MCU villain. She was just absolutely fantastic in the role. That is exactly what I want from the bad guys in my movies. And Jeff Goldbloom's Grandmaster as the secondary antagonist was done perfectly as well. And then throw in Karl Urban as the henchman Skurge, and Clancy Brown as the monster/demon Surtur was the icing on the cake. It was just set up and executed perfectly. I can watch it over and over and love it every time.

    Christian Bale is just super serious at all times, seemingly. That's fine if you're playing boring Batman, but I'm not sure what I expect from him here. We'll find out.
     
  23. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    IMO Ragnarok was great and I don't really have any complaints, but I do think there is room for a more serious performance. And I think Bale is an upper tier elite actor with great range. As long as they don't try and go Dark World type dark and serious played straight, it should work and could help differentiate it from Ragnarok and give both their own strengths and identity rather than having it essentially be a rehash. I'm also interested to see which gods are killed - someone notable has to die early imo to establish the character's power level. Will that be Zeus? Will it be one of the Egyptian gods? Someone else?
     
  24. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Yea, I don't think Love and Thunder need gravitas. I do think it needs a little less humor during the grand moments. It was like every cool or sad scene was undercut by a joke in Ragnarok.

    I do wonder if I am even going to care if Bale is the actor and if the character was played by Billy Everyman if they could have just saved some money.

    I do wonder if Hercules will be a cameo. Hercules used to be an Avenger. And Hades as well.
     
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  25. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    I love everything about Thor Ragnarok, and I want to give Watiti the full benefit of the doubt with Love and Thunder, but I have to admit that I'm dismayed after learning that scenes with Jeff Goldbloom, Peter Dinkledge and Lena Headley have been cut from the final version.
     
  26. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    It didn't need them IMO. Upper tier movie for me, I thought it was fantastic and it's my favorite Marvel in some time. It's definitely a Taika movie, but he toned down the comedy and really let some of the tense and emotional moments (and dang, it got EMOTIONAL) shine without instantly being overshadowed by a quip or throwaway. Again, there was plenty of that, but he spaced it better. Example (you won't be spoiled if you have seen
    The screaming goats was a funny bit that ALMOST went too hard, but was pulled back a lot just about the point my brain was like "ok, that's enough"

    Bringing Portman back and doing the Mighty Thor thing with her was an inspired choice - I'm always iffy on Portman because she seems to lack commitment sometimes, but she commits to this one. Christian Bale was also an inspired villian choice and played the role amazingly. Hela went for kind of a goth dark look and feel, but Bale's Gorr went into more of the visceral/horror realm type dark and it paid off, as did pulling back the comedic aspects, especially when he was around, which let him really stand out. Another good performance from Hemsworth and Tessa Thompson as well, though I felt they pulled a punch with Thompson.

    Some really good stylistic choices as well between the realm hopping, but the fight in the shadow realm (dimension?) was one of Marvel's best fights I think, it looked absolutely gorgeous the way they did it (not going to spoil it more).

    I had read some reviews that were a bit down on it, and honestly I can't really think of why.
     
  27. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    This is somewhat shocking to me:
     
  28. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    There is no question that Eternals was my least favorite and most disappointing MCU movie since The Dark World and Iron Man 3, but it was always likely that it would get a sequel. It basically had to. I am sad that they're bringing Zhao back for the second one, because her vision just flat out doesn't fit in with the greater MCU, but maybe Feige and others will reign her in moreso for this one.
     
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  29. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    The first one still made a ton of money, plus it was probably part of the plan to have a second (the end and post credit scenes obviously flow into a sequel) - this would likely be where they focus on modern day and integration into the universe. Also continuing to explore the Celestials and other cosmic aspects.

    Personally, I enjoyed the first one.
     
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  30. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I had a long list of problems with it, but it was still a middle of the pack MCU film for me. Besides, there's no way they tease Harry Styles in an MCU movie without delivering. That promises millions of young Brits, teenaged girls and young women who are currently outside the demographic, at least for this franchise. I can imagine a lot of huge implications from a sequel, not the least being an introduction of Galactus.
     
  31. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    From watching some of the YouTube fanboy videos, I get the impression that a lot of important stuff was left on the cutting room floor for sake of run time. A lot of meh movies could have been saved by better editing and I suspect this was one of them.
     
  32. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    The entire tone of the movie was off putting for me. The movie was really long, and yet felt like it left out so much and covered so little, because they were so concerned with everyone's emotions more than what was actually happening. And even worse given that its the MCU are all of the unanswered questions and potential plot holes that they created along the way that could have been avoided with a few more lines of dialog here and there.
     
  33. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I wonder what they are going to do with his powers because his powers in the comics are a little date rapey. There was an issue of She-Hulk where she had to defend him. I wonder if that is going to be in the show.
     
  34. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    Given that it's not only the MCU but Disney, I would imagine that they steer clear of any kind of controversy like that.
     
  35. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Few mini reviews:

    Thor 4 - I thought it was a solid 7. Not a 7 that is a failure 7, but a 7 on a scale from 1 to 10 where 7 is still a pretty good score. I would watch it again, I would be entertained. Nothing in it blew me away. It did make me laugh. I did enjoy the action. I liked the characters. It is a perfectly fine movie. I can see why people would give it a higher score, and I can see why people would give it a lower score. In fact, I know some people who love the quick run time, and some people who wish there was more. I agree with both.

    IMO, Natalie Portman was a stand-out. Loved her character. She actually had fun and showed up in this movie unlike in the previous two. Showed why she is a movie star.

    Though I did miss the Jesus Christ reference, that is pretty funny.

    Ms. Marvel - The first MCU property where I would say is delightful and sweet. Almost heartwarming. I enjoyed the family drama stuff and learning about historical events of culture and areas I know practically nothing about. Makes sense that the Pakistan/India split was a chaotic mess of a huge deal. Nice learning about its impact.

    Iman Vellani is a perfect hire. They literally cast a Marvel fangirl in a role of a Marvel fangirl, so she is just incredibly authentic. She is very likable.

    Also, there is a HUGE MCU set up in this show. Even saying that it is a spoiler.
    She is a mutant. The first known mutant in the MCU. This is funny because in the comics she was made an Inhuman because they didn't want to create more mutants and wanted the Inhumans to take over for the Mutants due to the Fox owning the Xmen. Very cool that the 97 Xmen theme is the MCU mutant music tag.
     
  36. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Haven't seen Thor yet. Might wait for it to stream (but don't worry about having spoilery discussions here; I already know I'm going to learn everything about it before I see it and I'm cool with it).

    I really enjoyed Ms. Marvel. My favorite character in a Disney+ show was Isaiah Bradley in Falcon & the Winter Soldier, but Kamala's mother and father are easily next to him in my rankings. This show was clearly a love letter to the American Islamic community and I'll bet 90% of its Muslim viewers recognize the Khan parents. One of the few times that I've felt privileged to watch something on TV. As expected with any of the MCU shows, there were hits and misses, but there were a lot more hits.

    I was geeked by both the mutant revelation and the Carol Danvers reveal. Nicely done.
     
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  37. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Oh yea, I forgot. Ms. Marvel had by far the best ending episode of any of the MCU Disney+ shows.
     
  38. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    They consistently fail to stick the landing. In the cases of Hawkeye and F&TWS, it pretty much ruined otherwise excellent shows.
     
  39. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    I must have missed the JC reference as well lol, though I wasn't looking and didn't know about it ahead of time.

    I think my biggest disagreement would be that for me,
    the stylized fight in the other dimension and the color play/black and white effects blew me away a bit. It was visually one of my favorite scenes in a Marvel film and the kind of thing you see films in the theater for. Unique and exciting.
    Agree on Portman though, she was fabulous. I wouldn't have minded more of the film, but I think the relatively quick runtime was fine. It started a bit slow and maybe a touch long on the silly opening, but not egregiously so. I'd personally give it an 8-9, but a 7 is pretty solid.
     
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  40. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    The runtime does make it a good quick watch, however, I do agree with some people that
    the villain could have used a few more scenes including him actually murdering a God. Plus it looks like there is an arc with Valkaryie that ended up on the cutting room floor. At first she seemed annoyed at all of the leadership stuff, and at the end she was doing training with the youngins. Felt like there was a story line of her embracing leadership and maybe the warrior culture of the Asgardians or something. But 2/3rds way through the movie she just dipps and is like, "I would die."

    Actually, yea, that was a really good shot. I also really liked the kids murdering monsters. Just thought that was cute and funny.
     
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