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Marvel Phases 4 & 5 Discussion

Discussion in 'TV, Music and Movies' started by Unlucky 13, Aug 14, 2019.

  1. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    He did murder a god (his god) right when his kid died and he got the sword, but I hear you - why not show him and Lady Sif battling where he chops off her arm and kills the giant god. That would have made sense. Valkyrie is a tough character, she's been taken in several different directions, but in the end, she's a third or even fourth fiddle in these movies and lacks the time to really develop. She is RIPE for a TV show, that's where she would absolutely shine. Sadly I don't think one is in the works.
     
  2. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    Just saw Love and Thunder tonight.

    For me, something has to be pretty epic to earn an 8. This wasn't that. It was however a very enjoyable movie that kept my close interest and made me laugh over and over and over. It was smart, and witty, and knew what it wanted to be and made it happen. If this was a stand alone movie and not a part of the MCU, I would give it a standing ovation.

    However.....these Phase 4 projects keep digging Marvel into a deeper and deeper hole by shooting off in different Galaxy or even Universe defining ways that are going to be very, very hard to eventually ever tie together neatly. I get that it all exists in one form or another in the comics, but that's just a different animal that's always evolving. You can forgive something from the 60s or 70s as being of another time and less forward thinking and just move on in that world, but the MCU is all one connected thing where everything that happens in one movie or TV show happens in all of them. That's the key appeal. And I really worry that they're taking things too far and its going to cause bigger issues. To this point, everything has had a plan and they've made it work smartly, but the very reality of the MCU is getting shaky.
     
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  3. vmarcilfan75

    vmarcilfan75 blah...blah...blah... Club Member

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    It was ok. Pretty let down to be honest Liked Jane/Portman and The fight scenes everyone else mentioned

    IMO tried way too hard to be funny and witty. Every line doesn’t have to funny. Didn’t care much for Valkyrie or Korg or Zeus.

    Maybe on the 2nd viewing(Disney+) I’ll enjoy it more.
     
  4. EastcoastEZ

    EastcoastEZ Member

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    I don't blame the writers for the movies not being as good as they were in the past (in my opinion they are not), its just we are getting pretty deep into the characters and potential stories.
    The best thing Marvel could do now is to take a break from the movies (and shows) for some time, let the minds of the fans 'reset'. That isn't how things work though especially with Disney looking for profit from each and every film.
     
  5. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    We just did that for 2020. It sucked, lol.
     
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  6. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    While I agree that is a key appeal, a lot of that was put together by duct tape. Look over a lot of the MCU during the Infinity War Saga and most of the "setup" for the next movie was either forgotten or rectoned at the beginning of the next movie. There wasn't a huge overarching plan. Thanos was put in at the end of the first Avengers as an Easter Egg by Joss Whedon. The "Fine, I will do it myself" scene by Thanos makes zero sense. And they even set up Thor Ragnorock in Age of Ultron and used nothing that they set up. That entire scene is a waste of time.

    They made it up as they went. Phase 4 is a lot like Phase 1 in which things happen and they will figure out how to put everything together in probably Phase 6. Like they did last time in Phase 3.
     
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  7. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    This is 100% true, but that they DID work so hard to retconn and eventually tie things together made it seem like they would keep having bit overarching plots running through the movies (and now ... shows!). However, it really isn't the case. I'm wondering if this is an error, or just maybe something I need to reset my expectation about.

    Like, I really enjoyed Thor, more than most it seemed. But it didn't mention Kang or anyone else aside from
    Eternity
    that might come back as some future significant figure, and that threw me a touch. But ultimately I didn't care because I liked the movie.

    Dr. Strange I thought would set up and lead into a lot more than it eventually did. The Loki show brought Kang to the forefront, and then he's kind of just .... not in anything else. I'm not sure what to think about that, but I still enjoy the movies nonetheless.

    And on that note, new trailers dropped for She Hulk (better CGI than the last, good vibe, but not 100% there on the CGI imo) and Wakanda Forever (interesting, they downplay the new Black Panther heavily and don't give any real confirmation of who it will be, presumably Shuri but maybe not?)
     
  8. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    Well, its important to remember that the MCU movies don't necessarily happen in the MCU timeline as they get released. Even the ones that seemingly are happening in "The Now". They don't sometimes point it out, but in the official timeline, there have been various movies in the past that took place months or even years after movies that were released later. Probably due to these kinds of issues. They're as vague about it as possible to give themselves leeway and plausible deniability.

    Also, as far as Kang goes, he or one of his varients the bad guy in Ant Man 3 coming in the Spring, so he's around.
     
  9. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I think Thor is potentially setting up a Young Avengers.

    Also, one thing to remember is that a lot of their plans were set back due to COVID. America was supposed to be in Spider-Man: No Way Home but couldn't due to scheduling.

    However, just like the Infinity Saga Arc, they are going to take bits and pieces to make it look like they knew what they are doing all along.
     
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  10. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    I finished Ms Marvel, and it's fine. It's a solid show. Unlike the other Disney+ shows that are much more cinematic in style and format, this one is very much a network show in how it's shot, edited and presented. It's very similar to Agents of Shield in those visual ways, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of the same people were involved behind the scenes.

    In the same vein, the writing, acting and story all feel very network. In line with DCs Arrowverse in some ways, with a hint of Sam Raimi thrown in at times. It was a welcome breath of fresh air after the mess that was Kenobi earlier this summer.

    The story is, unfortunately, largely forgettable. Iman Vellani does a very solid job in the lead role, especially for someone with zero acting credits. She's very believable. But its an origin story that focuses mostly on interpersonal relationships and community than it does actually moving the plot along, and the aspects that make up the superhero aspect are probably only a quarter of the screen time.

    I'm interested to see her in The Marvels next year to see where they go from here.
     
  11. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I think the biggest problem with Ms Marvel is that they have three major storylines and only 6 episodes. I felt it really needed to be 10 to 12 to just flesh the story.

    I thought the interpersonal relationships and community were the best part of the show. Just needed more to make a lot of the villain stuff make some sense. Either that or just commit to a season 2 and push out either the Damage Control or the other villains who I can't remember their names.
     
  12. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    I agree that it did absolutely feel like all of the aspects of the interactions with the adversarial characters were rushed. And the fact that they spent half of one episode on a flashback with other characters was an odd choice. That's the kind of thing that would make sense in a show with a 20 episode season, but with this little time it could have been something that they just talked about with a few lines of dialogue.

    And I don't disagree that the interpersonal relationships were the best part of the show, but....I don't want that to be the best part of the show. Its not what I'm here for. I want the 75/25 ratio to be flipped. I mean, if Peter spent 75% of one of the Spiderman movies talking to Aunt May and his friends in ways that didn't push the plot along, would that make a great movie? Has any other MCU property functioned that way? Maybe the Eternals, and I've complained plenty about how I felt about that one.
     
  13. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I think it would make a great Spider-Man movie. Some of the best comics in Spider-Man were his relationships with the people in his life. I don't want all the comic books movies just being mostly action. I also think I do not agree with you about pushing the plot along, because I felt the interpersonal relationships in Ms. Marvel was the plot and the super hero stuff was mostly just in there to satisfy the action quota.. They did an OK job with Ms. marvel.

    MCU will get really boring if all the movies were exactly the same. Or you get a movie that is just 100% plot like Thor: Ragnarock. A movie that would have been MUCH better if they flipped the 75/25 ratio to actually be about the characters and their relationships than jokes and plot.
     
  14. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    We just don't want the same thing. And that's ok. But the mcu is basically my safe space in entertainment right now, and there's very little else out there that I really enjoy. And if what the mcu has been until recently (which I love) keeps being altered, I worry both that I'm going to eventually lose it, and that I'll be sitting through more and more movies and shows that I don't enjoy simply because they're the mcu and I'm compelled to closely watch every minute of it.
     
  15. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    One thing to remember is that there is more hours of content in Phase 4 than all first 3 phases combined. They are going to have to continue to evolve and change and make things different if they continue to put out 50 to 100 hours of content every few years.

    I don't think you are ever going to "lose it". There will be plenty of MCU content that will fit the mold. They are not going to just abandon the standard American story structure.

    One beautiful thing about the age we live in is that if you watch a show that is not your style there are plenty of shorter videos on YouTube that can get you caught up so you don't have to miss anything important. Honestly, I tend to watch them anyway so I can see if I missed anything.

    Funny enough MCU are pretty much the only movies I go out to theaters to see.
     
  16. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    First off, She Hulk is really good and a lot of fun. I've watched the first three episodes and really like both the tone and the content. Tatiana Maslany is very good in the lead role. I hope to see her in the MCU for a long time to come.

    Secondly, Wow! Disney just announced the Thunderbolts movie and lineup, and its everything that we could have hoped for.

    • Sebastian Stan as Winter Solider (Bucky Barnes)
    • Flornece Pugh as Yelena Belova
    • Wyatt Russell as US Agent (John Walker)
    • Julia Louis Dryfus as Contessa Valentina Allegra de Fontaine
    • David Harbour as Red Guardian
    • Olga Kurylenko as Taskmaster (Antonia Dreykov)
    • Hannah John-Karmen as Ghost (Ava Starr)
    The movie will come out in July of 2024, and will be the final piece of Phase 5. I'm really excited. The return of Ghost and Red Guardian is a really cool surprise.

    https://geektyrant.com/news/marvel-announces-the-official-thunderbolts-team-lineup
     
  17. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    As a reader of the early Thunderbolts I hate it.

    As a fan of the MCU, I am looking forward to this movie.
     
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  18. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    I know almost nothing about the comic. Pure MCU on this one.
     
  19. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Not gonna lie: I'd like to have seen Baron Zemo and Abomination in the lineup and it feels like they missed the opportunity to have a team leader (like Reed Richards or Charles Xavier) and muscle (Hulk or Ben Grimm) by excluding them. Other than that, my only problem is including Red Guardian, who was essentially comic relief in Black Widow. That character might kill my enthusiasm to watch the film. Other than that, I trust Marvel to make it work, especially since it's bound to lead into something much bigger in Phase Six. I don't remember Taskmaster having such a masculine frame in Black Widow. Maybe I'll watch it again.
    [​IMG]
     
  20. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    For me, the beauty of the MCU is the regular comic relief. I never, ever want it to be pure seriousness. That's just not for me. Let DC hoard all of the dark, gloomy unhappiness. They can keep it.

    I also don't get the love for Zemo. I've not thought he was a special or likable character in the MCU.
     
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  21. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    It is a fun comic about a group of villains who pretend to be super heroes to do bigger crimes when the super heroes disappear, then they enjoy doing good and eventually most of them redeem themselves.
     
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  22. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    I thought he was a *meh* character in F&TWS, but his role as chessmaster in Captain America: Civil War was on point with me. Seemed perfect as a deceitful mastermind of a group of reluctant villans/anti-heroes. Plus, he has a strong connection with Bucky, so there would have been organic tension in their relationship. Finally, the fact that he once led the Thunderbolts was another reason to think he'd be included.
    [​IMG]
     
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