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Marvel Phases 4 & 5 Discussion

Discussion in 'TV, Music and Movies' started by Unlucky 13, Aug 14, 2019.

  1. vmarcilfan75

    vmarcilfan75 blah...blah...blah... Club Member

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    Yeah they announced 4 dates for
    Black Widow
    Shang-Chi
    Eternals
    Spider-Man
     
  2. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    Here's a good visual update on all 23 projects known to be in production for the MCU, plus the What If and Groot shows, which aren't cannon.

     
  3. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    https://bgr.com/2021/03/24/marvel-movies-mcu-phase-4-release-dates-2021-2023/


    2021:

    • July 9th: Black Widow
    • September 3rd: Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings
    • November 5th: Eternals
    • December 17th: Spider-Man: No Way Home
    2022:

    • March 25th: Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness
    • May 6th: Thor: Love and Thunder
    • July 8th: Black Panther 2
    • October 7th: UNTITLED MARVEL
    • November 11th: Captain Marvel 2

    With what was revealed in
    Episode 2 of Captain Falcon and Winter Soldier
    I am guessing that The Untitled Marvel Movie is going to be Young Avengers.

    Episode 2 of the Falcon and the Winter Solider introduced the 5th Young Avenger.
    I wonder if the Untitled Marvel Film in October 7th 2022 is going to be Young Avengers.

    Wiccan and Speed in WandaVison
    Stinger in Ant Man(all grown up in End Game)
    Kate Bishop (Hawkeye) in her own TV Show coming in 2022

    Spoiler (Spoiler) in Episode 2 Falcon and Winter Soldier

    That means Hulkling could be introduced in Secret War.
    Ironlad could be subbed out with IronHeart

    With the villain being Kang The Conquerer this makes even more sense!
     
  4. vmarcilfan75

    vmarcilfan75 blah...blah...blah... Club Member

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    Someone needs a Spoiler tutorial :cry: :chuckle:
     
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  5. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    Training montage of Oscar Issac getting ready to star in Moon Knight.
     
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  6. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Oscar Isaac is a perfect choice to play Marc Spector. I wouldn't have guessed they'd hire him but I'm looking forward to this show dropping.
     
  7. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    I only know the basics of the character, but I'm really looking forward to seeing what they do with it. He's a really good, fun and intense actor in the right role, and I'm curious if this will be a jumping off point for him to be a part of the movies for a while too, or if it ends up as a one off interesting side story.
     
  8. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Moon Knight was part of the Marvel Knights of Punisher, Daredevil, Shang-Chi, Black Widow, and Dagger.

    I got those when I got comics. Might be a fun team up.
     
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  9. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Just hoping that they manage to put the care and detail into the storytelling that we got in WandaVision and the first four episodes of Falcon and The Winter Soldier. I had low expectations for both and the characterization, acting and overall directions have pleasantly surprised me. The only characters who are not painted in shades of gray are Sam, Vision and Agatha. And in their cases, the somewhat one-dimensional depiction isn't a negative.
     
  10. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    how is Sam one-dimensional?
     
  11. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    Spoliers!

    LOL, please use the tags when talking about what went on in the shows. I'm begging you.
     
  12. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    I had to look up exactly who is Valentina Allegra de Fontaine. If someone would have told me 10 years ago that Elaine Bennent would be playing Madam Hydra, I would have thought you were insane.
     
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  13. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say he was one-dimensional. I said he was not painted in a shade of gray. To wit: Bucky has to come to terms with several decades as an assassin even though he's a good guy at heart. Wanda's grief led her to enslave hundreds or thousands of people in Westview and now she's studying the Darkhold. But she also has redeeming qualities as a wife, mother and member of the Avengers. Even John Walker thinks he's doing the right thing. Those are all people who don't see themselves as villains but have done horrible things.

    Sam is not one-dimensional at all, but I cannot point any particularly bad thing that he's done from anyone's objective standpoint. His time on the Raft was even because he took a principled stand with Steve and not because he did something that most would consider to be a criminal act (other than Thunderbolt Ross). Sam is a really decent guy who wants to do the right thing but is set on following his moral code. He's got layers of character development: His desire to help his family. His empathy for Karli's cause. His work with vets with PTSD. His confliction over his service in light of Isaiah's revelations. I love what the show has done with him and Bucky.

    But IMO, he's the character I would want to be because his problems don't leave him awake at night considering how one of his actions affected someone who didn't deserve it.
     
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  14. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Sorry, I misunderstood you
     
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  15. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    I agree with a lot of what you are saying. On a D&D alignment chart, imo, Sam is Neutral Good.

    As a black man, I am very much enjoying this show. One conversation was not that different than conversations I have had with my Grandpa, may he RIP.
     
  16. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    I'm enjoying it, too. It's got some low-key great scenes in it that have me catching my breath. Both scenes with Isaiah Bradley were fantastic. The story he tells in his ten minutes of screen time is better than anything that the MCU has shown on screen. Carl Lumbly's been around for a long time and he's nailing that role. Looking forward to episode #6 although I think it's going to set more things up than it resolves. I'm betting Zemo and Walker both wind up on the Raft and eventually are on the Thunderbolts together.

    Also, Florence Kasumba as Ayo better have a big role in the Wakanda series. She's perfect. She wears that scowl well and then will give a hint of something other than disdain, like there's more to her than her job.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
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  17. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    I was lukewarm until episode 4, which piqued my interest much more. There was some hard to believe or what I thought were ill-conceived plotlines. Sam's family's money troubles for instance, that just didn't seem very interesting or important and it was unbelievable to me. Pepper Potts couldn't cut a check? The Falcon couldn't start a go fund me?

    But Episode 5 ... man. Emotionally poignant and powerful. Let's just say Bucky
    how difficult it would be for a black man to take up Steve's shield and how little he or Steve had considered that, plus all the abuse endured by Isaiah Bradley (a clear reference to the actual tests done on black soldiers) to Sam finally making his decision and he and Bucky coming at peace with both their decisions and their post-Steve friendship.
    Good stuff.

    Interesting that the episode with virtually NO fighting has been easily the best of the series so far. It was a great episode. Hopefully the finale can live up to the table that's been set.

    Side note: Pretty obvious that
    is being set up for his role as "leader" of the Thunderbolts/ It's somewhat more unclear what role Val (but don't call her Val, just think it) plays and what group she, and by extension Walker, are related to.
     
  18. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Yea. Why wouldn't he get a Redbull commercial. It is right there!

    One of the potential issues on the show is they had a pandemic storyline and had to rewrite/shoot because of the actual pandemic. Which also made reshoots more difficult
     
  19. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Interesting, I didn't know that but I can see it - the first few episodes were kind of disjointed - some plots didn't seem well thought out, didn't really go anywhere and/or were just kind of dropped. However, 4 started pulling things together and did a good job showcasing John Walker cracking, while episode 5 started really bringing things back around. The whole boat storyline issue from episode that - frankly - was both kind of boring and unbelievable, turned into a great moment between Sam, his sister Sarah, Bucky and them all really figuring out where they were and where they wanted to go.
     
  20. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    I just joined Disney+ this week, and man was WandaVision well done all round. When it was announced, I wasn't sure what to think, but it was extremely well thought out and presented, and I really liked how they gradually opened it up and allowed the audience to see more and more of the mystery. The addition of the exterior characters from the MCU was also not only a treat for fans (I won't spoil it for anyone who may not know), but how they used them to give the viewer a different angle was also really intelligent.

    High marks all around. It was smart, fun, deep, insightful, cathartic, provided resolution and also became a jumping off point into the future. And meanwhile, the production quality was essentially on par with a blockbuster movie, so there's no loss of immersion.

    Next up, Falcon & the Winter Soldier.
     
  21. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/full-list-of-all-upcoming-marvel-movies/

    This is a really good rundown of the upcoming projects in the MCU, what to expect from them, and how they work into the greater universe going forward. Its been updated with a few date changes, and some of the latter stuff is educated speculation, and is a good read.

    What really struck me is that after two years of being starved for content due to the pandemic, there are now ten different MCU canon projects coming in the next calendar year, plus four more slated by the end of 2022. Plus the interesting What If animated show starring most of the original actors in voice roles.
     
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  22. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    What surprises me most is how Spider-Man comes out in 6 months and we are still in the position where we are hearing rumors of who is in the film.

    I still read, "So and so is rumored to be in the film." Followed up by, "So and so who was rumored to be in the film has come out to say they are not in the film." almost on a weekly basis.
     
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  23. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    My guess with that is that it works both ways for Marvel and Sony. On one hand, they don't want to give anything away and want whatever it is to be a surprise, but on the other hand, if none of this is true and its a standard movie, then its worked as great misdirection and kept up interest regardless. It seems plausible that it could work off of the same principles the upcoming Dr. Strange movie will, but it would be a little odd for that to happen as a major plot point before the Multiverse of Madness itself comes out. It could also have some indirect connection to the Loki series coming this month, as its an an alternate timeline(s) too.

    Personally, I both want to be surprised about it and I just don't care about the earlier Sony movies regardless, so I've just made a point not to read much about it. Whatever it ends up being, I trust in Marvel to get it right and to keep Sony in line. I did see just today that Emma Watson denied any involvement.
     
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  24. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    I just finished Falcon & The Winter Soldier. It wasn't what I was hoping for. I completely understand the direction that they took and what they wanted to accomplish, but it all ended up being too much about everyone's feelings and not enough about plot for my personal tastes.

    I thought that Anthony Mackie did a great job, and I'm glad that he seems like he'll be a big part of the MCU going forward. But I thought that they really spread themselves too thin, trying to tell too many people's stories, and spent more time with those secondary characters than was really necessary. (both the antagonists and the heros' friends and family) It ended up looking great, but the pacing was off, and the show just never seemed like it flowed properly.

    At the end of the day, I'm glad that the stories were told and I like that its taking the MCU in new directions with interesting characters. And its good that they attempted to explain a lot of what happened with the snap, and aren't simply ignoring that and moving on.
     
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  25. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    yeah, it was the weakest of the 3 series so far. seemed like it was more of a transition for Falcon than anything else. I'm loving the Loki series so far.
     
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  26. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    Im looking forward to Loki a lot. I'm finishing another non-Marvel show first and then im going to jump into that one.
     
  27. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    Tom Hiddleston is such a favorite of our family. I didn't know until recently that he was originally trying out for the role of Thor. obviously didn't get it, but they came back to him for the role of Loki
     
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  28. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    I saw that years ago when they showed his audition tape on TV. Its great that he was still cast as Loki, of course. I've honestly never seen him in any other role.
     
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  29. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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  30. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    https://screenrant.com/marvel-mcu-shows-after-black-widow-release-dates/

    This is a new rundown and update of information that was already mostly known. However at the end, they add a Disney+ show that I hadn't ever heard of, about a female hero named Echo. She's connected to Hawkeye apparently.

    I love that they're using the shows as a mixture of helping close up stories for some characters while being a jumping off point for others. Its a great idea.
     
  31. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Neat.
    Echo is like Taskmaster but deaf.
     
  32. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    Black Widow was good. They did a really good job putting it together and making it meaningful for a character who has already died in the main story. Scarlet Johansson was great as expected, and Florence Pugh was absolutely terrific as Yelena. She and her character are really cool, and she put the movie over the top as basically the second lead - more than a supporting role IMO. It was a good way to close out Scarlett's decade long time in the MCU and put a ribbon on Natasha as a character.
     
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  33. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    https://geektyrant.com/news/marvels-blade-movie-lands-a-director-with-bassam-tariq

    The Blade Movie has hired a director, a man named Bassam Tariq. I'm not going to worry about the fact that they're largely unproven and unknown, because that's been the case with a number of MCU movies that have turned out just fine. It will be written by Stacy Amma Osei-Kuffour, who has largely worked in television and seems to have a good reputation.

    Truly, this is the upcoming MCU project that I'm the least interested in/looking forward to. If it wasn't part of the MCU, I wouldn't even consider watching it. But it is, so I will.
     
  34. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    Loki was very, very good. And without trying to give anything away, its really mandate viewing for anyone with a big interest in the MCU. I was a little hesitant when I originally read the synopsis a couple of years ago, but they did a really terrific job with it, and it felt very meaningful.
     
  35. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    Some questions/observations I've had since Loki.

    BIG SPOLIER WARNING!!!

    So first off, the entire look and feel of the TVA. Why does it look the way that it does? In real life, it's probably because the set designer/art director thought that it would look cool. And that's fine. But given that it's literally "For All Time", why in the world would they choose an ugly Earth 1970s aesthetic? They could have gone with a Hitchhiker's Guide style quip to explain how this was the most boring and utilitarian scheme in the history of the universe and it would have gotten a laugh. But they never talked about it at all, which made it keep bugging me.

    And with the TVA, why was every single employee human? With all of time and space to choose from, you'd think that the odds would be that most of them would be of other races. Having one of them be Kree, and another a Luphamoid (like Nebula), and another a Kronan (like Korg), ect would have both been more realistic and more fun. It seemed like the show had a smaller costume and makeup budget than Agents of Shield in this respect, which is really weird. And they could have even shot all of a certain character's scenes in one or two days IRL, so there's no real good reason not to.

    And then again, why the focus so much on Earth? Why was almost every time and place that Sylvie traveled to there? She literally had the total breadth of time and space that she could have chosen, and it was mostly Earth over and over. And close to our current time, at that. Seemed lazy.

    And has she been running for as long as Prime Loki has been alive? Longer? IE, more than a thousand years? I badly wanted to know that detail, and it would have been huge for her character. How long was "old Loki" in seclusion? It seems like it had to be hundreds if not thousands of years too.
     
  36. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Time didn't really matter as it doesn't really flow.
     
  37. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    You mean just at the TVA? Or overall?

    Ravonna remarks to Mobius that they've spent "eons" working together. That's generally taken to mean billions of years on Earth, if not longer. She could have been exaggerating with that, but I still took it to mean a HUGE amount. And if they had been there that long, even if time had no meaning to them, they've been working and doing things that entire time. Even if that were "merely" thousands of years.

    And even if Kang is from Earth around the year 3000, why would he be so fixated on times near our own period IRL? We know that Ravonna and C-20 are from our time on Earth, and its hinted that Mobius is too. Possibly also B-15. And clearly Miss Minutes is a throwback to cartoons of the 20th century.
     
  38. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Yea, that could just be a saying. It could be "eons" or 13 seconds in Earth time since time is probably random there and doesn't really flow. We do know it at least on the sacred timeline it is circular.

    Also, we just saw the Earth division. And we only saw a few things that Shelby did on Earth. Most likely they did it for budget concerns.

    Though it does make sense that Kang is from Earth, that only earth timeline fractures would matter towards his plan of keeping him being the only Kang.

    we only saw a small window into the TVA.
     
  39. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    That all makes sense. Though I would have loved had they articulated that. Just have Mobius share that he works for the Earth division, and there are millions of other ones, for example.
     
  40. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    My non-spoiler opinion- I was "ehh" on the show and absolutely hated the entire final episode. It honestly made me regret watching the series.
     

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