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Marvel Phases 4 & 5 Discussion

Discussion in 'TV, Music and Movies' started by Unlucky 13, Aug 14, 2019.

  1. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Agents of Shield gets a lot better after Winter Soldier.

    IMO, the fourth season of Agents of Shield is a master class on how to do a season of Super Hero Television. The way they were able to tell one big story while cutting it into four separate parts is how all superhero shows who want to do an American Network length season of television.
     
  2. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    DD's height and physique were central to his character in the comics as was his Irish heritage.

    Why is Superman always cast as a physically imposing clean shaven guy with dark hair? Why is Thor blonde and blue? Ppl love Hugh Jackman as Wolverine due to being dark haired and swarthy, what Wolverine was... the knock on Jackman was his height. Too tall.

    You want to change the characteristics that make characters what they are, you might as well just create another character entirely.
     
  3. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Not in any of the ones I read.

    He was a weird playboy until the 90s when he was turned Catholic.

    Central to the character is that he is blind and a lawyer.

    And Jackman was too tall, however, he owns Wolverine and everyone associates Wolverine with Hugh Jackman.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2021
  4. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Weird playboy who turned Catholic?

    I started reading DD in the 80s. His single-father Dad was an Irish boxer who was murdered for not taking a dive to try and give him a better life. He ended up in a Catholic orphanage raised by Nuns. He grew up Catholic. He was conflicted, bitter, and fighting alcoholism then. Chased Bullseye to Japan to kill him over Electra. Not sure where you got the playboy stuff from.

    Jackman is Wolverine for the generation who grew up with him. Central to the character are all the elements that fit Jackson as well, with the exception of being too tall. Jackson couldn't have pulled that off if he'd been blonde and blue. It's something minor as he was 90% everything else.

    And IMO, the best character physical change makeover was with Liev Schreiber recreating Victor Creed/Sabertooth. Schreiber was great in that role like he usually is in everything he does. Ray Donovan was an awesome series.
     
  5. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    His becoming Catholic was changed by Mark Millar. Before that, he was some playboy. Everything you just mentioned was a big retcon. He asked himself, "Why would a superhero also be a lawyer? Oh, he would have to be Catholic.".

    IMO, Wolverine being tall is a much bigger change than him being a blonde hair, blue eyes. His height was a big part of the character in the comics. However, the change worked because Jackman made Wolverine his.

    I think the best character physical change makeover is Michael Keaton as the Vulture. That character is nothing like his comic book counterpart, but worked in the film.
     
  6. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    The vulture was meh... but I do like Keaton as a bad guy.

    Miller came in as DD writer during the late 80s.. Denny O'neill was writer at that time after taking over from Roger McKenzie, who was a horror writer and started in the late 70s making DD being dark and brooding, tho he'd always been a serious sort. The wise cracking bit came in with him pretending to have a twin brother during the 60s, but that wasn't "Matt".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daredevil_(Marvel_Comics_character)

    ... 1970s ...
    "McKenzie's work on Daredevil reflected his background in horror comics, and the stories and even the character himself took on a much darker tone: Daredevil battled a personification of death,[32] one of his archenemies was bifurcated by a tombstone,[33] and a re-envisioning of Daredevil's origin showed him using stalker tactics to drive the Fixer to his fatal heart attack.[34] McKenzie created chain-smoking Daily Bugle reporter Ben Urich, who deduces Daredevil's secret identity over the course of issues #153–163,[35] and had Daredevil using the criminal underworld of Hell's Kitchen as an information network, adding several small-time crooks to the supporting cast.

    Halfway through his run, McKenzie was joined by penciler Frank Miller with issue #158 (May 1979).[36]

    In a story arc overlapping Wolfman, Shooter, and McKenzie's runs on the series, Daredevil reveals his identity to Glenn and becomes partially responsible for the suicide of her father; their relationship would persist but would prove increasingly harmful to both of them. Though the Black Widow returned for a dozen issues (#155–166) and attempted to rekindle her romance with Daredevil, he ultimately rejects her in favor of Glenn.

    1980s
    Miller disliked Roger McKenzie's scripts,[31] so new editor Denny O'Neil fired McKenzie so that Miller could write the series.[37]

    Miller continued the title in a similar vein to McKenzie ...
     
  7. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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  8. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    I was hoping to go see Shang Chi either Friday or Tuesday, but none of my three local cinemas are showing it early enough so I could go and get home before my kids are home from school. Boo.

    So maybe the following Saturday.
     
  9. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    I ended up going for it and saw Shang Chi yesterday. I was worried I'd have to cut out before the post credits scenes, but the timing worked out. And it was absolutely worth it - obviously stay for those scenes if you go!

    The movie was very good overall. A really good into story not only for the main character, but a whole new section/concept in the MCU. Simu Liu was very solid as Shang Chi. The part is very physically demanding, and he was up to making it work. He has some comedic chops, and I think that with time he can become akin to Chris Hemsworth as Thor. Looking forward to seeing more of him in the future as the character.

    Tony Leung was also very good as the antagonist Xu Wenwu, Shang Chi's father. While his character is absolutely a villain, he brought humanity to the role, and there were times that he reminded me of Tony Stark in the latter moves he was in. I thought that that used the character well and was really good for an intro story.

    But the real scene stealer was Awkwafina as Kate. When I read that she would be playing the friend of the main character, I expected her role to be something akin to Kat Dennings as Darcy in Thor. But she was a lot more than that, more like Florence Pugh as Yelena in Black Widow. Not the butt kicking bad *** that Yelena is, but in as big of a role. She absolutely kept the movie flowing properly, added a ton of humor, and was terrific as an average person thrown into an amazing world.

    In a smaller role, Michelle Yeoh was very good as Ynig Nan.

    In a surprise, Benedict Wong has multiple scenes as Master Wong (from Dr Strange) and is terrific. And a real surprise is Ben Kingsley reprising his role as Trevor Slattery from Iron Man 3, and adding a ton of humor.
     
  10. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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  11. Unlucky 13

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  12. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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  13. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Looks fun. Like an old fashioned buddy cop movie.

    I hope Hawkeye says, "I'm too old for this ****."
     
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  14. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    That would be good. :up:

    It looks/feels like a good way to mostly say goodbye to the character before he literally gets sent off to the farm.
     
  15. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    I am happy they are doing something with him rather than just letting him disappear
     
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  16. Unlucky 13

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    It feels like that will be the case with a lot of them now that we have the Disney+ shows.
     
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  17. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    I have been thinking I would love a brief mini series on how Bannon and Hulk became Professer Hulk. Even if it is just a conversation.
     
  18. Unlucky 13

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    With Mark Ruffalo being a part of the She Hulk show in some respect next year, they might incorporate some of that into that overall story.
     
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  19. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Finished "What If ..." and JESUS IT GOT DARK SO FAST with the final few episodes. Episode 2 with Starlord T'Challa was the high point imo. Not that the final 3 were bad (they weren't) but each was darker and grimmer than the last. Still it was fun to explore some zany stories. I am definitely looking forward to the next batch of episodes - especially what looks to be some kind of Iron Man and Good Guy Killmonger teamup.

    Overall, I really like the animated medium as a good way to explore the genre, though some of the characters being voiced by non-character actor voices took a minute to get used to.
     
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  20. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    I'm not going to get into it for a while. Given that its non-canon, actually anti-canon, it has always been on my back burner. And then I saw about the zombie episode, which is not something I have any interest in seeing. I'll watch some other stuff in my backlog and then check it out later.
     
  21. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    If I were to guess I think the 2nd episode would be your favorite so far. What if Black Panther is Star-Lord was a fun adventure.
     
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  22. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    It's not really anti-cannon, it's just straight up alternate realities. I think mostly it's to keep the idea of the multiverse in people's minds, while just having some fun and doing weird stuff. They were generally pretty fun and interesting, and were kind of interesting takes on characters we knew going in different directions. And it's not just as simple as "good guy bad, bad guy good" either, if that's a concern.

    They are also pretty big on there really being fixed events in time that cannot be fundamentally erased. Circumstances can change, people can change, but trying to rewrite time is no beuno. It's also interesting that 4 of the 5 episodes were pretty clear in that they were setting up or actively exploring a cataclysmic event of the same magnitude - or greater than - as The Snap.

    I dunno, they were cool. I really enjoy that style though. If you don't really like animation, it may not hold the same appeal.
     
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  23. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    I do definately enjoy animation. I would say that about half of the new shows and movies that I watch and enjoy are animated. I certainly appreciate the insight, so thank you. I will certainly, eventually check it out.
     
  24. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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  25. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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  26. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    I am so psyched for Eternals. not sure common folk realize Thanos was from the offshoot Eternals population on Titan. and that he doesn't look like an Eternal because he has a Deviant gene.
     
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  27. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    also, I absolutely loved Shang-Chi. not just because I'm half-asian, although it did stir some serious asian pride. I thought it was one of the best of the 2nd tier of MCU movies, along with Dr Strange and first Ant-man. but not in top tier (End Game/infiinity war and GOTG)
     
  28. Dol-Fan Dupree

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    I am not excited for the Eternals but I am going to see it opening weekend because I am an MCU addict. Plus I know it will be at least very entertaining
     
  29. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    exactly. even the lowest rated MCU movie is still entertaining. I wonder what everyone's lowest MCU movie would be (excludes the FOX and Sony movies). I think I'd have to lean to the Iron Man sequels. I loved the first one, but thought other two were meh, especially 3rd one. The third one did set up Shang-Chi though.
     
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  30. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    My lowest MCU movie is the Hulk. So low that I don't even consider it to be canon. I think that a lot of people agree. Its the sole one that I dislike.

    Other than that, I would say Iron Man 3 is my least favorite. With Thor 2 just above that at the bottom of my list. And then though I do like it, Spiderman Homecoming would be next.

    Of the movies known to be coming later on, I'm not looking forward to Blade at all. I wish that they weren't making it, even. I hate horror. That being said, I'll probably go see it in the cinema, because MCU, and I'll 100% see it one way or another.
     
  31. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    I wasn't a big fan of the Hulk, but I grew up a big fan of the Hulk. I'd put it on par with Iron Man 3. the thing the two movies have in common is bad villians in each movie I like w Hurt as Gen Ross, but didn't like Blonsky. Plus, I think Ed Norton acted like a scientist would act IMO. better than most scientist portrayels
     
  32. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    The Hulk was the first Marvel property that I was ever even aware of, watching the old show as a kid. It premiered the year that I was born and I watched it a lot as a small kid, but I outgrew it and moved on, and by the time I got into comics in the mid 80s, I thought of the character as lame and basic. I pretty much felt the same way about Captain America too back then.

    I really enjoy what they've done with the character since The Avengers, and Mark Ruffalo is terrific as Bruce Banner, so I just put that one out of my mind.
     
  33. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    Ruffalo is a way better movie character for Banner, but Norton was closer to the comic book character. I'm glad Ruffalo is now the Hulk, but Norton was also good to me
     
  34. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Thor 2 is the only one I didn't see in theaters and when I finally watched it I was fine with not watching it in theaters.

    Myself, I thought the Hulk was fine for what it was.

    I would have to pick Age of Ultron to be the second worse. That one just got worse in time. There are things I like about it but the movie just doesn't work and almost everything it set up didn't really work as it seemed to be planned.

    I liked Iron man 3 a lot, though Iron Man 2 is pretty forgettable. I am trying to remember what happened and it is hard.

    So I would have to say my bottom three is

    3. Age of Ultron
    2. Iron Man 2
    1. Thor 2
     
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  35. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    I absolutely hated Mickey Rourke as the villain Ivan Vanko in Iron Man 2. He was terrible, and the character was terrible because of that. But I liked just about everything else about the movie. It was fun. It introduced then 25-year old Scarlett Johansson as Natasha for the first time. Sam Rockwell was great as Justin Hammer. Don Cheadle was a step up, replacing Terrance Howard as Rhodey. I thought it was all cool.

    I thought that 3 had large stretches where it was boring. The change in direction from Jon Favreau (who I love) to Shane Black was very noticable. I really liked Rebecca Hall as Maya Hansen, who was originally set up to be the major villain before the studio made them change it to sell more action figures. But I thought that Guy Pierce was lame as Killian, and the whole section of the movie where Tony crashes in Tennessee and then is immediately found by the bad guys just dragged it down so much. It feels like a much more shallow, early 90s style action movie, and not really in tune with what the MCU has become.
     
  36. Dol-Fan Dupree

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    I enjoyed that part. I felt it really got into the character of Tony Stark. I enjoyed how Iron Man 3 was more of a Tony Stark is Gizmo Bond with a suit. Plus I enjoyed the end battle a lot. I really enjoyed the twist of the Mandarin. Plus I have a soft spot for movies where one of the goons runs away. Why don't they run away more? If I just saw 4 of my co-workers get decimated, I am not going to be #5.

    Iron Man 2 I am trying to remember. I do remember the drinking scenes. However, other than that it is just so forgettable. I was entertained by the flashing lights and I would love to see Justin Hammer back because Sam Rockwell is electric. Just disliked all the Black Widow scenes for the most part.
     
  37. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Both Iron Man sequels and Dark World (Thor 2) were probably the most forgettable overall. I really haven't gone back to those at all. Ultron wasn't a strong entry either, which is a shame because Spader as a deranged robot was an inspired choice. I really wonder/hope
    the events from What If ... may lead to a return/reimagining
    .

    I also don't really care for the Spider Man movies, which I suspect is difficulty relating to teenage life at this point. Ugh, I feel old now.

    That said, all are perfectly watchable and rewatchable. Quality has definitely gone up lately though. Getting some really good directors like the Russo's, Taika and Gunn were good moves. I am REALLY interested to see Zhao's take on Eternals just from an artistic standpoint.
     
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  38. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Yea, if I am hanging out with someone and they want to watch any of the MCU movies, I am going to watch it and enjoy it. None of them are "Man Of Steel" bad.
     
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  39. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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  40. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Finally saw Shang-Chi, it was good! Not my favorite, but a very solid and enjoyable entry. Good kung-fu is always a treat to watch, the fantastical setting of the latter third of the movie was rad (and more multi-versal hints/threats), some intriguing characters and excellent casting overall. Got a little slow and expositiony at times, but that's alright.

    Spoilery stuff:
    I'm undecided on Ben Kingley's return. It felt superfluous and it was just a bit much. Glad they rapidly toned him down. I didn't love the performance of the sister, felt a little stiff and wooden. I get that she's supposed to be hard and tough, but she just didn't garner any sympathy - I am not super interested in her taking over the Organization.

    I also think it would have been better to see more of the history behind the legend of the Ten Rings themselves, and also the organization. Like ... for a global empire, where did it go, why did it vanish into the shadows? It felt like a big hole. Where did Wenwu get the 10 rings? Was it a gift/grant from something or someone? I dunno, too many questions left unanswered for me, though I suppose it gives lots of room for further exploration.

    I really enjoyed Tony Leung as Wenwu as well, set up as this big evil bad guy, but dang his story was as compelling as anyone's I felt. What a personal journey.

    Captain Marvel going back to the long hair look? Bruce dropping Professor Hulk? WONG IS TRAINING ABOMINATION!?!??!?!
     
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