I just wrote and posted this to a response in the draft forum, but I thought it spark up some nice debate if it were in the mains, too, since not everyone visits the draft forum.

I'm a huge fan of Bess to be honest, but I truly feel our offense is lacking in maximizing 1st & 2nd down potential b/c having Bess on the field during these downs basically means us NEVER busting a big play from the slot position, and I don't like that. I don't like that he can't stretch the field from the slot, especially considering that Fasano can't do it either, making it 2 guys on the inside who can't attack the entire field on 1st & 2nd down which prevents Marshall and the ground game from having maximum space to operate in. I want to see Marshall's $40 million contract be good for more than 2.9 YAC. IMO we leave big plays on the field on 1st and 2nd down when Bess is in the slot, while making life a little more difficult for the ground game, and our 1st down yards per carry (around 3.85) seem to back this up (even though there are other clearly other aspects to consider, too).

For me, 1st & 10 is one of the downs when a defense has to be prepared for anything while an offense has the ability to run just about any play. Bess's physical limitations don't allow us to really open up the playbook on 1st down the way a Julio Jones, Justin Blackmon, or Greg Little would as our #2 while moving Hartline to the slot on 1st and 2nd down. That would pose a much bigger threat IMO. I believe it would open up the ground game a little better, and I believe we'd see more "chunk yardage" on 1st & 2nd down. Hartline has just enough speed to get vertical to where he could do some nice things to help Marshall play in more space (b/c as good as Bess is by himself, I have to attribute some of Marshall's crappy YAC to having Bess next to him).

Close your eyes and visualize a defense's response to Hart attacking the safeties (or LBs further down field) and how it changes the entire dynamics of everything. I don't see how a billion out routes or comebacks by Bess does anything to truly grab a Safeties attention or effect their game plan. They're like: "Hey look-- Bess is running a 6 yard out." "Wow, he's running an 8 yard curl..... Thank you Miami!! Now we can focus more attention on stopping the ground game, Marshall, and keying in on Henne". At least that's how I view it.

Bess is worth his weight in rubies on 3rd down (namely 3rd & 8 or less yards) and when we need a clutch 1st down on 2nd & 8 or less, but outside of that he becomes a playmaking liability IMO.

Teams have 2 down LBs for this very reason right?--- to maximize the value of the position on EVERY down. Defenses do it to help reduce the big play etc, so why can't we do the same on offense to help CREATE more big plays?! We can treat our slot WR role as a 2 down LB so that we have as much production here on 1st & 2nd down as we do on 3rd. I know how much some members love stats, so I thought I'd include these for him..... I mean them. :wink2:

Bess on 1st down: 190 yards, 10 ave, 1 TD, 23% 1st downs per targeted attempt, 61% catch rate per attempt, 23 yard long.
Bess on 3rd down: 299 yards, 10.7 ave, 2 TDs, 50% 1st downs per attempt, 67% catch rate.

Hartline on 1st down: 401 yards, 18.2 ave, 42% 1st downs per attempt, 67% catch rate, 54 yard long.
Hartline on 3rd down: 128 yards, 11.6 ave, 38% 1st downs per attempt, 46% catch rate, 21 yard long.

(Before anyone blabs about stats again, I'm merely using them to validate something that I already believe to be accurate, rather than basing an argument to fit the stats. Most of this post was written before I even thought about looking them up.) The above stats are troubling to me. By glancing at them, you can concretely see that we're leaving plays on the field and not maximizing our offense's potential on each down. We lack dynamics because of it, and IMO it will continue to lack until it's addressed.

Simple fix:
1. Draft a stud WR like Julio Jones, Justin Blackmon, or Greg Little to replace Hartline as our #2.
2. Move Hart to the slot on 1st and some 2nd downs so we can get his quality 1st down production here (401 yards) instead of Bess's mediocre 190. This also provides us greater YPC, more 1st downs per attempt, a greater catch%, and greater chunk yardage potential on 1st down from the slot while still having as much production (if not more) from the #2 WR position. (None of this mentions how much an upgrade at #2 means to our offense, but that's for another thread).
3. Bess moves to the slot on 2nd & short and 3rd down where he can continue to dominate the league.

Marshall, Hart, and (Little, Blackmon, or Julio) give us greater flexibility to move guys around the field with a better opportunity of creating mismatches.
Bess & Hart can both rotate in to give breathers while providing us an extremely difficult 4 WR spread to defend (and less worries about Marshall being winded in the 4th Qtr). Adding a stud #2 IMO will go a long way toward indirectly turning this offense around. All of this gives us a better opportunity to maximize production from all 3 WR positions on EVERY down.

Basically, I want to squeeze this puppy for every yard it can get. We're like a 200 HP V8 with room to tweak it to 350 with a couple easy adjustments. I'd like to see it get to 500!! lol


I know I probably got a little redundant, but I'm too tired and hung over to proof read. :yes:

Debate away!! Happy new year!!

 

That's just not really his MO. The guy needs to rely on his shiftiness to get open. He has physical limitations (namely speed) that prevent him from being a guy who can threaten a defense in this manner, which is why he wasn't drafted in 08 IIRC. Bess gets YAC fine; he just doesn't have a high ave b/c his catches are mostly from short routes. He also doesn't pose as a chunk yardage threat which is one aspect our offense is sorely lacking in. 4.64 forty only gets you so far..... which is about 5 yards. :shifty:

 

Hartline is equally as quick as Bess over 10 yards, but pulls away from 10-40. This is a big asset in the slot over Bess on 1st and 2nd down. Brian can cover more field which allows us to attack more of the field, which forces defenses to have to cover more of the field (or at least be prepared for it). That helps open up the ground game while giving Marshall more room underneath to catch a short route and turn it into a big play. Lamens terms: Brian has the speed & ability to get himself further away from Brandon than Bess can so that there will be less defenders within the same vicinity so that Marshall has a greater opportunity to earn his $40 million.

Hart would be a stud in the slot on 1st and 2nd IMO. His 6.65 3 cone time would really shine here..... more so than playing outside as a #2 IMO, and he'd tear up LBs matched up on him.

 

I agree. We have a few key pieces to success and are only missing a few more to make the whole puzzle. Little things like Bess being a 3rd down machine are invaluable to this puzzle IMO. And a few more pieces and we'll see Marshall making the big plays that got us excited about him coming here in the first place.

 

Offensive rebuild would mean ditching 2 of the 3 hardest positions to fill: LT & #1 WR. Teams can go years trying to find studs at these positions. We're far from an offensive rebuild. Something like signing Mankins, Ahmad Bradshaw, and Tony Scheffler in FA while drafting Julio Jones, another RB, and Oline depth would turn everything around in 1 offseason..... even with your despised Henne a QB. I hardly call that a rebuild.

 

This!!..... with Hartline included. Hart's quickness over 20 yards should be seeing a LOT more routes with him going up field, like the slant against NO where he almost broke it.

 

I'd be perfectly happy using a 3rd on Greg Little. I honestly believe the 15th pick range will be much too soon for Locker and Mallett, so I don't see us reaching for them if a guy like Julio Jones or Mark Ingram are on the board. If Ingram is gone, I don't see how we could pass on Julio. However, if we enter the draft still needing a stud RB and playmaking #2 WR, then Ingram-Little would probably be my favorite duo. I'd rather have these 2 than than Julio-"best 3rd round running available"..... that is if we can't trade down.

 

my response to Aqua might as well be a response to you too, brother. lol.

 

Ok.... so you want a coaching rebuild. Now I understand better.

 

He is a top return man. I'd like to return him to the bench so we can get someone else in here who can break a big one. :shifty:

 

There are a few times this year that I remember thinking "Damn, if Bess only had a little more speed, like 3 seconds faster on his forty, then this return goes to the house". Then I just shake my head in disappointment. For someone who's legs move so fast, he really doesn't go very far. Just sayin.

 

I agree with you, but I'm temporarily withholding any judgment (negative or positive) on him until he gets a better vertical threat and some more reps in.

 

As much as you like Mallett is probably how much I like Little. I don't dislike Mallett, but I think he's a few years from reaching his high potential which IMO will push him down the draft a bit. Not far, but possibly too far for us to want to take him at 15ish. If we're at 28ish, then I think he'd have to be considered. Too bad Jeffery couldn't come out; he'd probably push Green right into our lap. :pity:

 

ya bum. You had me going for a second. :tongue2: Am I crazy to think that adding 1 player at WR <like Little, Julio, or Blackmon> could change our entire dynamics at the position (based on this one guy allowing us to move Hartline to slot, the upgrade at the #2, and giving Brandon & Fasano a little more space underneath)?

 

Our depth at WR wouldnt start on a handful of college teams. Embarrassing. :lol:

 

I'm pretty confident that Hartline is an upgrade on 1st & 2nd down, so if Moore can be even better, then it's all good with me. I'm not playing favorites. :knucks:

If Palmer were to hypothetically come here, I'm inclined to think he'll prefer Hartline in the slot based on his success with Shipley since he and Hart have similar talent, skill sets, and physical attributes IMO.

The Eddie Royal point: Exactly. As you wisely know, it's not always about how good the guys are around you look statistically, but also how they affect the play of those around them. The "Miami has better receivers around Marshall than Denver did" argument doesn't hold any water when dealing with how they open up the field to allow Brandon more room to make plays IMO. Royal in the slot does a lot more for Marshall than Bess does.

 

Not trying to be rude, but how did you read this threat and come away with it emphasizing: "We need an elite burner at the WR position above all needs"?

1. The guy I like (Greg Little) at #2 runs a 4.5.
2. Thinking that there is no problem at WR is to say that you've never watched a game or looked at our roster, no offense.
3. The guy that I like (Little) can probably be had in the 3rd or 4th round.
4. If Mark Ingram is off the board, then it would be absurd to reach for the next best back if Julio Jones is on the board. We need a playmaker. If one falls to you in the first round, you can't afford to pass him up and be picky about which position you get that playmaker from. Teams don't get better by passing on elite talent at positions that can greatly impact a game at any given second.
5. If you want to improve the running game, then you need a WR unit who can can keep defenses more honest. RBs cant do a thing if they don't have the space to do it in, otherwise we'll continue seeing what we do now- guys getting tackled at 7 yards when they could've broken a big one if there weren't so many defenders within a 20 yard area. You're missing an important aspect of an offense's dynamics.
6. How many running backs do you want us to draft and sign if FA? We don't need to spend 6 picks and 2 FA acquisitions on the position. It's actually possible to address RB and our SERIOUS need at WR.

Signing Mankins, if it can happen, along with moving Incognito to C full time will greatly improve our Oline. We don't need all pros at all 5 spots..... not to mention Jerry is still a promising prospect. Not sure I'd want to spend a high pick on his replacement when the effort might prove futile.

 

That would be nice, but IMO Bess is too valuable on 3rd down to give up (at least for now). IMO Bess & Hart offer slightly different aspects to the game, and when combined together would form a very nice 1-2 punch in the slot to where we get the better of both worlds. Bess is better in the 10 yard and under range and Hart is better in the 10-20 yard range IMO.

Granted, if we grabbed Jacoby Jones if FA to make ensure we lock up some sort of playmaker and then have a stud WR like Julio Jones became our 1st pick b/c his value is too good to pass up, then I'd welcome a 2nd for Bess any day of the week. I don't think we can afford to trade any of our top 3 WRs until our depth is solidified though.

 

I honestly feel this too. As bad as this offense is right now, I think it can make a major improvement overnight just like our defense did. I really like the "infusion of skill position talent" notion. If we get lucky in FA with the right people and have a few playmakers fall to us in the draft, then we could really pop some teams in the mouth next year. I think one of the keys is finally having that #1 WR to build around. It makes looking at offseason needs so much less stressful as far as I'm concerned.

Ditto on the scary duo of Ingram & James (or even Andre Ellington) ..... or how about Ingram & Bradshaw? Ingram and Trent Richardson? :shifty:

Almost forgot about possibly grabbing Owen Marecic (Stanford FB) in the 4th to replace Polite if Lex isn't moved to FB. He's got Tourette's, but he'd be a nice fit here and could probably beat out Crowder at LB.:couch: