Sure makes trading back and passing on Earl Thomas sting more. I mean, if they hadn't drafted Misi, they could sign Ray Edwards and already have Earl Thomas at FS...but no, Jared Odrick was their man.
I love how all the knocks on Odrick are coming out now. I was bashed continuously the night of and after the draft for knocking this pick. He wasn't a need nor was he the BPA. Now a year later people are coming to realize what was initially not hard to see. I rarely forget names and I won't mention them because they know who they are.
On your second point , and hopefully that isn't going to be history repeating itself, but if it is , much much better to sign MCD than have to go out and acquire a similar talent imo. I have said for months I wanted MCD resigned, personally because I believe he is on the cusp of being a dominant big time bonafide impact player , so yes i like his future better than some of the other dlineman we have. My other point was that we could utilize the strong depth at a position that many teams want to upgrade , and we need to upgrade a few other positions. I am not in favour of using one of thise dlineman for Orton however, and am thinking that may indeed be the plan. Rather use that player and draft picks to move up on one of the QB's in next years draft if we need to do that. We'll see.
We only carry 5 De's. There is merit in that thinking, the problem is the Dline in the 3-4 is not meant to make plays per se, they do grunt work. We need more flash and dash, we got earth movers.
Odrick did not displace Starks. The decision to move Starks to NT was made when they drafted Odrick, not when Odrick outplayed him on the field. And, more and more, I am inclined to think that we truly wanted Dan Williams at NT and the Starks/Odrick swap was Plan B. Honestly, that is what this move suggests to me. Either that, or they just have no faith in Odrick staying healthy.
Yup. That very well could be it. And it sucks, don't it? But can you see why I get so pissed when people get squeamish about spending a 1st round pick on a quarterback and always think it's the end of the world if you miss? We're now faced with the very real possibility that last year's 1st round pick is a total bust, and nobody seems to give two sh-ts. But if it's a QB who just never lives up to his promise, keeps getting beat for the job and doesn't perform well when he has opportunities, god help us it's the end of civilization as we know it.
I don't understand how anyone could be mad at this or disappointed. Last year, we suffered injuries everywhere and you could definitely see our DLine wearing down as the game went on. If we can keep our 4-5 top DEs healthy all year, we could have the best Dline in the league, no joke.
Forgive me if I'm mistaken but you seemed to be disagreeing with my assertion that Tony McDaniels may have played better in 2010 because he knew it was a contract year.
Just hyperbole bro. I just think a lot of their line of thinking is just backwards, or simply incorrect. I don't think Tony McDaniel was a necessity. The contract isn't bad, but whose all going to be taking snaps at DE? Just seems like that money could've been spent elsewhere.
Not at all. I was just thinking across the line that if he did play lights out to get a big payday, it's rather telling that he signs pretty much immediately instead of holding out for a better opportunity and mayhaps a starting job. It simply strikes me as a little odd he'd take that deal when there's usually teams with DL problems out there who are looking for potential starters. It seems to tie in with your theory, not disagree with it.
Nobody is complaining about having good players. But these guys cost money and only 2 or 3 of them are ever on the field at the same time.
With all this speculation about what this move means for Jared Odrick's health I can't help but think back to that news item where Jared talked about how he's "close" to being healthy again and everyone celebrated it while I was absolutely horrified that he hadn't returned to full health months ago.
Ok. Now we're in a game of semantics. However, you'd like it to be said is fine with me. The fact of the matter is unchanged. Randy Starks was moved to another position, after a Pro Bowl campaign, to make room for Jared Odrick. Obviously, they value him highly. I think the move if anything going along your speculation lines was made in the event Odrick gets hurt again or that leg injury was worse than we were led to believe. I think the move was made with the intention of dealing one of the other players in a deal for Orton to free up room for McDaniel.
Ah, my bad. I think the reality is they made some phone calls and found not much interest in him, and then they talked to the Dolphins and the Dolphins told him in some roundabout or maybe direct way that his snap counts from 2010 would not decrease in 2011.
seems like no matter what, Jeff Ireland can´t get anything right at this point, keep it comin HATERS....
Not a good move? Ya, I hate when we keep our talented players too... Are you saying its not a good move b/c money should be spent elsewhere with our depth at DE? Would understand that... however we havent seen everything play out yet.
Here is the story from Barry Jackson on Tony McDaniel: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/07/27/2333322/tony-mcdaniel-signs-two-year-deal.html
I don't agree with this. The move of Starks to Nose Tackle had a lot more to do with Paul Soliai and Jason Ferguson than anything else. They were unhappy with Paul, didn't think he was good enough in 2009, still had fresh memory of his work ethic and weight problems back in 2008. Jason Ferguson retired. They needed an answer at that NT position. They MAY have been counting on Odrick but I don't know if you can read into the whole thing that they were because they still had Tony McDaniel and Phil Merling to play DE along with Kendall Langford. Merling didn't tear his Achilles until late July, way after the Draft.
This is an unwise assumption. I've outlined plenty of moves that I would endorse. It just so happens that this regime is terrible at making moves that I would endorse. Doesn't mean I'm always right. It just means they almost never fail to do the exact opposite of what I would deem to be wise. And maybe that makes me unwise. Or maybe they've been 7-9 for the last two years for a reason, and what comes this year will come, whether I approve it or not.
I think our semantic disagreement is with the word "obviously." I don't see how your assertion is obvious at all. They very well could have moved down and missed out on the player they truly wanted. At that point, they thought Soliai was garbage. They needed an NT and figured moving Starks there and drafting Odrick was a better option than drafting any of the remaining NTs. I fail to see how that is "obviously" a ringing endorsement of Odrick. At that time, there were plenty of rumors that we really liked Dan Williams. I think it's more than reasonable to think he was our target in the move down. And as much as many on here didn't like him, Khaled Elsayed over at PFF felt he had a very solid year at NT.
That's fine. I disagree with this opinion. No doubt those reasons above factored into the decision to move him into that role, but the ability and potential of Jared Odrick, helped ease the move of Starks to NT. The earliest story I could find on the move of the Starks move was after Odrick was drafted. http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thedailydolphin/2010/04/23/randy-starks-moving-to-nose-tackle/ Again, I'm sure they were on their game and thought a Starks move to NT could play out if they found a DE of their choosing. But again, they had to find that guy and that guy in their mind was Jared Odrick. I just believe it's incorrect to believe that Jared Odrick's ability and potential didn't play any factor for Starks' move to NT. Whether you opine it does or doesn't, he still had enough talent for the coaching staff to start him in week 1--which was my original point.
I would much prefer McDaniel playing inside than Starks. In regards to Odrick, I'm not sure this signing is much of an indictment of him. He missed his rookie year, and I'm not sure you want to rely on him being your 3rd DE right away. A deal longer than two years for McD would have been a lot more worrisome in regards to Odrick. All this really does is provide insurance, and doesn't force you to give significant snaps to someone thats essentially a rookie. ETA: I also think this means they don't plan on giving Soliai a long-term deal yet. Its likely that Soliai may not be on the team after this season. And if that were to happen, and McD didn't re-sign, you're looking at a DL that could potentially only have Starks and Langford as proven commodities.
Personally I would trade someone other than MCD because I believe he has better long term ability than some of the other players. He may not , but imo he does. Regardless , Miami needs to improve it's talent base, and trading from a strong depth position for player at weaker depth position makes sense to me. Why would you lose a quality player and then try to sign one in the open market and be frustrated because you didn't get the type of player you wanted? If we can get a game changer , an impact player , a playmaker by trading one of our dlineman , I believe Miaim becomes a stronger team bottom line. They could even trade MCD , although as I have mentioned that would not be my choice. As far as Odrick I truly hope you are right , but don't agree and not to beat a dead horse , someone with the injury history he has scares me. A lot...
You mean Ryan Baker? He only played 80 snaps. Merling only played like 120. Not really a big deal. The Dolphins had a great rotation in 2010 with Randy Starks, Paul Soliai, Kendall Langford and Tony McDaniel. Jared Odrick didn't figure into the mix at all because he was hurt. I figured that in 2011 they could have an even better rotation with Randy Starks, Paul Soliai, Kendall Langford and Jared Odrick. I figured Starks would be better because he'd train all training camp at Defensive End rather than Nose Tackle, and I blame that primarily for his slow start to the 2010 season. Kendall Langford seems to get a little better each year. Paul Soliai was a big question mark but I'm taking his word at face value as far as his weight and conditioning is concerned, so I think he could be even better in 2011 than 2010. And, Jared Odrick really impressed me with his pass rush in the preseason. I was looking forward to seeing him play more. This re-signing means that my vision is probably in some way inaccurate. Either Jared Odrick is not ready to play, which is a very bad sign, or they're possibly looking to dangle Randy Starks in trade for Kyle Orton, which would be stupid and wasteful IMO. But, given the effectiveness of the 4 man rotation in 2010, it's hard for me to imagine it being worth $3 million to have a 5th significant rotator in 2011, given the way Mike Nolan runs his defense.
N.B.: My numbers may be off. This is a pay raise of about $1.15 million per year. Conceivable Subtractions: Culver, Moses, Brown, Williams, Procter, Pennington, and maybe Dobbins if we go after Barnett. Total pay off the books (w/o Dobbins) = $15,809,000 (might be inaccurate) Additions so far: Soliai, McDaniels Total Additions = $13,150,000 Net Change = $2,659,000 If we can get Soliai down to about $6,000,000 we'll have a net loss of $8,659,000 http://www.altiusdirectory.com/Sports/nfl-salaries.php has us at $103.1 million so take away the $8 million. Payroll = $94,441,000 (new Soliai deal) Tagged = $100,441,000 Salary Floor = $118,800,000 We'd have to spend either $24,359,000 or $18,359,000 Not a terrible situation.
I don't think that's right for this year. I thought the floor for this season was like 99% or something close to that.
If you can find it, watch Jeff Ireland's press post-Day 2 press conference. That was when he announced that Randy Starks would be moving to nose tackle, and later it came out that they had approached Starks about the move a long time prior, asking him if he was willing to do it if necessary. Jared Odrick wasn't the only DE in that Draft that they had their eyes on. This was something they prepared for, because Ferguson was retiring and they didn't have any faith in Soliai.
Re-signing Depth == Odrick is a bust? That's a pretty big speculative jump! Odrick got hurt and didn't get a chance to play. How about you wait to see his production on the field for a season before putting the bust label on him.
How can being a first round pick not be a ringing endorsement? I'm not following you on this. Who they wanted doesn't matter. They selected Odrick because they felt he was the best player at that position that represented the best value at that pick in the draft. He then went out and won a starting job at DE. So, they obviously valued Odrick highly. Had they not, he wouldn't be a Miami Dolphin, nor would he have been chosen with our 1st round pick.
The floor is 99% league wide. 90% for each team. Also, the floor doesn't need to be reached until the end of the year.
I can't find it, but I'm sure it's out there. I absolutely believe they asked Randy Starks about it prior and I remember reading/seeing it that they did (maybe from the video you suggested). I mean he moved to the inside frequently that year prior. However, I'm opining that Randy Starks doesn't stay at NT, nor does that transition go as smoothly to a full time NT, if the Dolphins weren't able to get Jared Odrick. I mean, the timing of the Randy Starks transition, means something right? If they planned to move him, why did nothing come out prior to that day? I know it opens up the Dolphins to seeking a DE, but with Langford & Merling available it wouldn't mean they were targeting that position prior to the draft. I still believe that the Jared Odrick selection helped play a part in the move and the coincidental timing of the information being released to the fans suggests his drafting made that easier and possible.
Because simply talking to Starts about a move is not the same thing as planning to do it. They wanted that 2nd round pick back. They knew they wanted an NT and an OLB. They realized that, if Starks could move to NT, it would provide them more options. Plan A - Dan Williams at NT Plan B - Jared Odrick at DE, moving Starks to NT Obviously, they would want to talk to Starks about this well before they came up with the strategy and began talking to teams about moving down. But that, in and of itself, does not mean that Plan B was "the plan."
Well guess that means the end of Merling. With Denver's need for DL it wouldn't surprise me to see Merling as a throw in player for Orton. As CK pointed out Baker/Merling combined for some 200 snaps. Can easily plug Odrick in there. Plus I am still of the mind that if Odrick pans out the team won't re-sign Starks down the road thereby saving themselves a load of cash. 2 years at $6 million is pretty solid. I'll want to see the details of the contract outright though cause for all we know it could be a fancied up 1 year deal.
Taking this as a sign that there's something wrong with Odrick is really alarmist, to say the least. A 4-man rotation is not all that onerous at 3-4 DE. You've got two players of that build on the field virtually every single defensive snap, sometimes three. They've done it before in 2008, giving Merling/Langford/Holliday/Starks all about 500 snaps apiece. This will probably mean a heavy culling at the bottom of the roster. There's really no reason to keep a bunch of guys like Ryan Baker, Lionel Dotson, Phillip Merling, etc. now. You'll probably see McDaniel being the primary backup at NT this year as well.
