1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Mediocre Dolphins

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Vertical Limit, Jan 3, 2019.

  1. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

    9,732
    3,060
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
     
  2. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

    9,607
    6,286
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
    Just giving everyone else a head start. It's only fair. :D
     
  3. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    71,338
    41,623
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    This is the problem with the rhetoric and hyperbole that is tossed around simply because we are disappointed by results.

    If Gase sucks. And Tannehill sucks. And Grier sucks. And Tannenbaum sucks. And the scouting department sucks. And Ross sucks. And the assistant coaches suck....then how are we consistently average?

    Are we a disappointing franchise? Yes
    Does being average make it hard to break free from being average the way the draft is set up? Absolutely.
    Do we suck? No.

    We are average, but we the fans, the media and ultimately the team, respond to average with actions that apply to teams that are horrible. We gut coaching staffs, we change power structures like we were pre-Mayfield Browns. It is nuts.

    When team is average for as long as we have been, we should be making bold moves in the draft to acquire blue chip talent to lay over that average base. We should be maintaining an average base while trading numerous picks to get into the Top 5 of the draft for otherworldly skill guys. (I know we tried that with Jordan, but that is part and parcel to the gamble.)

    All we effectively have done is start over every couple of years and not improved our results. We should be coming at this from a different direction, then fire everybody.
     
  4. Bumrush

    Bumrush MIA till I die Club Member

    20,316
    18,117
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Agreed- As much as we can hate on the Jets and Bills they had a plan and executed. We need to do the same. Even if Darnold and Allen wind up failing, at least they tried. They used draft capital to give themselves a chance. Will Miami act in a strategic matter to do the same? If 2020 is the year for QB's, does Miami have the long term vision like the Jets did to position themselves properly?
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
    resnor and AGuyNamedAlex like this.
  5. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    5,395
    7,061
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    I agree completely. If you're good at something but want to be great, that doesn't mean to ignore all the positive stuff you already have going. The answer is to build on it and most people seem to completely miss that aspect.
     
    resnor and Fin D like this.
  6. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

    10,252
    4,170
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Bradenton,FL
    I mean. What’s different than Miami taking Tannehill and ultra talented Devante Parker? And bringing in weapons? I’d say Miami has done a good job through the draft. And supposedly that points to Grier. If we drafted really well and sucked in all other aspects, averageness remains. We didn’t hit on the QB. It happens. We drafted an average very talented QB. We could of done a lot worse.
     
  7. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

    555
    535
    93
    Sep 12, 2015
    Generally don't agree with you but damn I couldn't have said it better myself.

    My only disagreement would be Im not sure this is the year to do that.

    I'd almost rather take a flyer on Bridewater and if a prospect you like drops at QB...take him.

    Aside from QB do you see any prospects you feel we should be trading up for this year?
     
  8. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End

    6,566
    2,284
    113
    Feb 10, 2010
    Palm Bay Florida
    I am still of the opinion this team has good talent at skill positions, excluding QB. The problem is the lines are so bad it undermines everything else. We have two good tackles, 1 actually since they did not lock up James and who Davis? The rest of the line is scrap heap material and they keep making the mistake of bringing in old vets that get hurt easily.

    The defensive line has had little better attention. Who do you REALLY have there? Godchaux, Taylor and an old Wake? After that it's the same situation as the offensive line.

    We are rotten at the core and I truly believe if we fix that this team will improve greatly.
     
    resnor likes this.
  9. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

    37,346
    14,655
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    new york ciity
    One of the best posts I have read in the last couple months here.
     
    resnor and Fin D like this.
  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    93,193
    45,634
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Hmmm, let’s see, in the last twenty years let’s say, how many seasons have we seen above average qb play and leadership.?

    1

    And coincidentally that year we were not average.
     
  11. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    9,316
    2,922
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Austin TX
    How many teams have done this effectively?
     
  12. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    71,338
    41,623
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    I'm not sure I've ever seen a team apply this tactic.

    How many teams have been effective constantly rotating their staff every three years when he average record stays 8-8?
     
    resnor, adamprez2003 and Tin Indian like this.
  13. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    5,395
    7,061
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    31 teams don't win the Super Bowl every year. That's 96.9% of the league. So by many people's standards here, 97% of NFL teams suck. Last year, everyone sucked but Philly.
     
  14. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    9,316
    2,922
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Austin TX
    It might be an interesting strategy to test, but I doubt it will ever happen. I think the belief would be that one player won't impact your team heavily enough to be worth the investment of capital you seem suggest, and with bust rates being what they are, it's essentially putting all your eggs in a basket (as with Jordan). Another example of a negative would probably be the Ricky Williams draft by Ditka and the Saints. That cost him a job. A variant on the "buy ****loads of free agents" that teams do sometimes try.

    The big one to hit on is and will remain QB, especially now. There is a reason teams with young and cheap QBs are winning - they can afford to build a quality team before their QB hits a gigantic payday. Then when that paycheck finally needs to be made, they hopefully have been able to determine either he's a high end star who can sustain with less, or that it's time for another shot. That's where we have failed. We have either had utter garbage, or we brought in a rookie who required too much time to 'develop' and then never really did, but we doubled down on anyway.
     
  15. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    71,338
    41,623
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Yeah QB is the big one for sure, but Thill was good enough to win with.

    I just think we've been cautious in the past two or three drafts...waiting for the draft to come to us. And then when we do strike, there's no theme or specific goal. I'd rather see boldness like when we went for Jordan. Yes, that didn't work out, but bold moves don't always work.

    I just see an average team in need of special talent in some key places.
     
    texanphinatic and Tin Indian like this.
  16. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

    1,939
    1,041
    113
    Sep 13, 2011
    We're always basically an average team, which tells me that we are one great quarterback away from being a great team. We're definitely stuck on the mediocrity treadmill and have been for quite some time, but that is due mainly to the fact that we haven't had a good quarterback on this roster since Dan Marino. He retired in 1999....That's twenty years ago. We're due for a change at the position. We made the playoffs with Chad Pennington in 2008 and it was because he had a great year as our QB. He was absolutely fantastic that year for us.
     
  17. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    93,193
    45,634
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    We are worlds apart on the qb, so maybe I’ll pass on this debate :)
     
    texanphinatic likes this.
  18. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    8,193
    6,265
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Melbourne, FL
    Let me ask you...what makes a great team? Is it wins? Because if it is, allow me to pose this question...

    How many games did we lose during the Gase era because the defense simply couldn't close the game? Allow a team to drive down for a game winning score with time running out? Does the quarterback play defense?

    Because we've put so much focus on offense, without puttng as much focus on building a powerhouse defense that we've been mediocre for so many years
     
  19. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

    1,696
    790
    113
    Mar 6, 2010
    The problem comes down to drafting. We traded up to get Jordan who was supposed to be a franchise DE. We took Harris in the first round who’s been a no show. 7 out of our last 12 1st/2nd round draft picks have been defense.

    The problem is that we’ve missed on too many picks both offensively and defensively. We’ve had offenses that sputter and keep our D on the field too long, which makes it tough to close out games on D. We’ve had offenses that can’t do anything with turnovers, field position wins or couldn’t help us close out games.
     
    texanphinatic likes this.
  20. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

    10,252
    4,170
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Bradenton,FL
    How many times has the patriots defense given up a go ahead score? Mean while Brady still marches them down to get into a position to win. OR, and I know its crazy talk for Miami fans, when the Patriots are up one score, they don't go 3 and out twice in a row to give the opposing team multiple chances, they tend to go down and score to go up two scores and make it out of reach, or at the very least gain some first downs and keep the ball away from the opposing offense. To just blame the defense as giving up the lead is extremely short sighted on what actually goes on in the game.
     
    Hooligan and texanphinatic like this.
  21. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End

    6,566
    2,284
    113
    Feb 10, 2010
    Palm Bay Florida
    I still think our biggest problem after QB is the offensive line closely followed by the defensive line. It doesn't matter who you have at QB if as soon as they take the snap there is a guy ready to pound them. If your oline cant hold blocks or open holes It doesn't matter how good your Receivers, TE's or rb's are. The play is blown up before it gets started. Same thing on defense if your line can't get penetration on their own or keep guys off your linebackers.

    By my estimation we have Two OT's, assuming we get James resigned, and 1 Guard. On defense we have Godchaux, Taylor and an old Wake. Every one else needs to go. Every one. Thats gonna take a minute to get done.
     
    resnor, Surfs Up 99 and texanphinatic like this.
  22. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    9,316
    2,922
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Austin TX
    Yeah I think always waiting on the draft to come to you is not always the best move, but rather than moving up, moving down usually seems the better course. It affords more chances to hit on impact players high and get contributors low. If you stock capital well enough, it lets you control some of the draft moving and get you into better position to select the people you want and need.

    I do agree our "theme" for lack of a better word has been off. We haven't seemed to commit to anything in particular, just kind of scattering picks across all positions. This doesn't really let us build a position of strength or an elite unit (see Dallas OL, Rams DL, Chiefs DL). I also think we have the old issue of selecting talent without a clear plan for that talent. Jordan was partially a victim of this. Minkah could be a great pick eventually, but it's clear we didn't really know what to do with him in relation to the existing talent on the team. Could he be a better pro than, say, Leighton VanderEsch or Frank Ragnow? Yeah probably. But both of those guys would have clear roles and probably would have excelled on us as they did for their respective teams. Hopefully Grier can fix that issue.

    As for THill, I'm with DJ on that. No, he isn't good enough to win with. He's probably good enough, given a superior team, to maybe reach the playoffs, but I don't see him as being a good enough or consistent enough QB to win 3-4 playoff games in a row. We can get "decent but inconsistent" from a much much cheaper option imo, though I'd rather set sights higher. Hopefully Grier can fix that too.
     
  23. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    8,193
    6,265
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Melbourne, FL
    My wife often does that, answers a question with a question, goes on and on and on about the question SHE asked and never answers my question.
     
    resnor likes this.
  24. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    8,193
    6,265
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Melbourne, FL
    I don’t think it’s the lack of talent on defense. We’ve had some awesome talent on defense. I just feel that our DC’s as of late have been huge busts.

    Had we made an effort to get Wade Phillips or Jim Swartz, our defense would be forcing 3 and outs on a regular basis...and giving more opportunities for the offense.

    With Gases offensive scheme not being a high flying, fast scoring system, the defense needed to be extraordinary. Sadly, the bend don’t break wide 9 is a broken concept and needs to be shot in the face with a bazooka...TWICE
     
    Tin Indian likes this.
  25. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

    10,252
    4,170
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Bradenton,FL
    Means you bring up invalid things, exactly like you're doing here...
     
  26. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Well-Known Member

    1,337
    1,255
    113
    May 5, 2016
    Not me. We have some pieces here an there, but IMO we have some serious holes to fill at several positions. We need a legit DE in the worse way among others because our pass rush was a nightmare.
     
  27. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    8,193
    6,265
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Melbourne, FL
    Oh really? And do tell how asking about our inept defense is an invalid point?
     
  28. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End

    6,566
    2,284
    113
    Feb 10, 2010
    Palm Bay Florida
    Gotta agree to a point. Our defensive coordinators and schemes have been awful. I am almost giddy that the Wide Nine is dead and buried here. I do feel way better about our young linebackers now than I did at the beginning of the season and our secondary has some great pieces, but the line is a mess. Whoever the new coach is, he and Grier are going to have to address that quickly.
     
  29. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    5,395
    7,061
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    There were six games this season our defense gave up 32+ points....four of those games were 40+. So it would be pretty easy to argue that the defense led to 6 of our 9 losses. The average score this season league-wide was 23 points so we were way behind the curve there.

    How many times did we score 23 or better? 7 times...and we won all 7 of those games. That means there's plenty of blame to go to the offense as well.

    One other thing that jumps out in my mind was penalties...how many drives did we extend after making a crucial 3rd down stop and then the yellow flag came out? Just dumb penalties alone led to a few of those losses.

    To me, the season came down to not being able to stop the run. It was a problem all year and once Howard became hurt and we couldn't stop the pass either, our odds of winning were basically zero. Couple that with Stills/Amendola as our top two receivers down the stretch and it's not hard to figure out how we became 7-9.
     
    resnor and The_Dark_Knight like this.
  30. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

    1,054
    1,625
    113
    Mar 20, 2012
    Vero Beach
    League leaders in something. All right Miami!
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  31. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

    1,054
    1,625
    113
    Mar 20, 2012
    Vero Beach
    I just watched Schwartz' wide 9 absolutely destroy the Chicago bears in an offensive snooze fest. On our end it seems more like a personnel issue than a scheme issue.
     
    adamprez2003 likes this.
  32. firedan

    firedan Well-Known Member

    1,716
    606
    113
    Oct 31, 2008
    palm beach county fl
     
  33. firedan

    firedan Well-Known Member

    1,716
    606
    113
    Oct 31, 2008
    palm beach county fl
    It does suck that we have been so gosh darn average though.LOL.
     
  34. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Well-Known Member

    1,337
    1,255
    113
    May 5, 2016
    No doubt they have success. The get great push up the middle. Fletcher Cox is a beast! I don't know the answer to this, but the question I have about the Dolphins is would the personnel we have fit a better scheme and should they have changed it?
     
  35. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    8,193
    6,265
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Melbourne, FL
    No, it’s all Tannehill’s fault lol
     
    resnor likes this.
  36. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    71,338
    41,623
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Its time to change how teams set up their scouting departments.

    We need to stop having guys specialize in regions of the country and start having guys specialized in units on the field.

    The old (but still current) way of doing things is built on a pre internet and less televised college team exposure world. Because of that, there's an entire scouting culture built around finding that diamond in the rough, which to me is silly.

    You want to be relevant? Hit on your first 3 picks every year and to hell with finding that star player from East Gibip State A&M in the 5th round. The best way to do that is have guys specialized in certain aspects of the game. There is just simply no way there's enough scouts who can spot talent in every position group.
     
    adamprez2003 and danmarino like this.
  37. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

    1,696
    790
    113
    Mar 6, 2010
    Who thinks it’s all Tannehills fault? I think most people I see know that we have issues on both sides of the ball. Difference being that many like myself have seen enough out of Tannehill to be ready to move on and find something better.

    Reality being we need DL, OL and a QB
     
    Surfs Up 99 likes this.
  38. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    8,193
    6,265
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Melbourne, FL
    Sarcasm dude...sarcasm
     
    resnor and mlb1399 like this.
  39. MediocrityLivesOn

    MediocrityLivesOn Member

    58
    49
    18
    Dec 16, 2018
    I've accepted the fact I'll see a championship probably when I'm an old man.
     
  40. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

    6,765
    7,368
    113
    Dec 21, 2014
    So what do you guys think? I have a long standing $500 bet with a Bengals fan that the Dolphins will win the SB before the Cincinnati Reds win the World Series. Good bet or bad? lol.
     

Share This Page